St. Paul's Hospital & Health Campus | U/C

[jollyburger]

First phases includes aggregate piles and building the cut off wall (caisson filled concrete so no piling for that). Then H-Beam and Piling Steel. Then seems like there is more secant piling.

https://thenewstpauls.ca/app/uploads/2021/03/Community-Open-House-full-PP-March-18.pdf

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

First phases includes aggregate piles and building the cut off wall (caisson filled concrete so no piling for that). Then H-Beam and Piling Steel. Then seems like there is more secant piling.

https://thenewstpauls.ca/app/uploads/2021/03/Community-Open-House-full-PP-March-18.pdf

Aren't 'aggregate piles' heaps of aggregate?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

Mar 21, 2021, 10:17 AM
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As it was raised on another post, here's a link to a 1916 image that shows the site. (I don't have a cloud image storage these days, and it's too big to post here). The Ivanhoe is on the left - recently built as The VanDecar Hotel).

The site where the hospital will be built is where the clean fill can be seen in the middle of the picture. There had been a shallow inlet of False Creek before that. A year later the Union Station was built on the site, two years before the Canadian Northern Station was built alongside to the south. (That's still there today).

The history of development here, and the underlying ground conditions presumably explain why they apparently don't need to pile the new hospital construction.

If you check the presentation by PCL at about the 18.00 mark you'll see the presenter noting concerns about pile driving, and saying they won't need to do that. Not completely believing that, I deliberately wrote "why they apparently don't need to pile". If they are piling for the cut-off wall (and what else would three piling machines be for?) it's possible they'll rotary pile to create the wall, (like Concert did for Tesoro), which is generally quieter, and arguably not 'pile driving'?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Aren't 'aggregate piles' heaps of aggregate?

Yeah that's not related to the piling.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If you check the presentation by PCL at about the 18.00 mark you'll see the presenter noting concerns about pile driving, and saying they won't need to do that. Not completely believing that, I deliberately wrote "why they apparently don't need to pile". If they are piling for the cut-off wall (and what else would three piling machines be for?) it's possible they'll rotary pile to create the wall, (like Concert did for Tesoro), which is generally quieter, and arguably not 'pile driving'?

When I heard the presentation I think he was just specifically saying the cut off wall didn't need piling but that didn't exclude all the other foundation piling for the building itself.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

When I heard the presentation I think he was just specifically saying the cut off wall didn't need piling but that didn't exclude all the other foundation piling for the building itself.

I have no idea what sort of permit they've got for doing the ground works, but I'd be very surprised if it includes piling for the buildings yet, as the project hasn't got a DP, and won't have one until at least August 9 when the DP Board meet to decide it.

As that presentation shows them building the cut-off wall first, and the piling machines are already on site, I assumed they were related. They can't start any foundations for the buildings before the walls are in to create the 'box' that will be excavated - and that's huge, and will take a while. It seems unlikely they brought the piling rigs in to park them up until all that work is completed.

Maybe Hollywoodnorth should email Randene Neill the project contact at Providence and ask the appropriate questions.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I have no idea what sort of permit they've got for doing the ground works, but I'd be very surprised if it includes piling for the buildings yet, as the project hasn't got a DP, and won't have one until at least August 9 when the DP Board meet to decide it.

As that presentation shows them building the cut-off wall first, and the piling machines are already on site, I assumed they were related. They can't start any foundations for the buildings before the walls are in to create the 'box' that will be excavated - and that's huge, and will take a while. It seems unlikely they brought the piling rigs in to park them up until all that work is completed.

Maybe Hollywoodnorth should email Randene Neill the project contact at Providence and ask the appropriate questions.

The slide with the HBeam and piling steel is titled "NSP Phase 1b – Shoring & Civil (June 2021 – September 2021)" so the timing does seem to match up.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The slide with the HBeam and piling steel is titled "NSP Phase 1b – Shoring & Civil (June 2021 – September 2021)" so the timing does seem to match up.

That same slide shows 'Drill Rig Clear Zone' and 'Staging Areas for each Drill Rig'. I guess that might suggest drilled rather than hammer piled? And that would be why the PCL rep was suggesting there wouldn't be 'piling'. There will be piles, but if they're drilled. it's only when the steel H-beam core is hammered into the drilled hole that there's any piling noise. The slide shows four rigs operating inside the cut-off wall perimeter. The next slide shows Secant Piles - those are "formed by constructing intersecting reinforced concrete piles. Secant pile walls are reinforced with either steel rebar or with steel beams and are constructed by drilling under mud". (The same system Concert recently used at Tesoro, right across the street from residents in earlier phases of development).

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That same slide shows 'Drill Rig Clear Zone' and 'Staging Areas for each Drill Rig'. I guess that might suggest drilled rather than hammer piled? And that would be why the PCL rep was suggesting there wouldn't be 'piling'. There will be piles, but if they're drilled. it's only when the steel H-beam core is hammered into the drilled hole that there's any piling noise. The slide shows four rigs operating inside the cut-off wall perimeter. The next slide shows Secant Piles - those are "formed by constructing intersecting reinforced concrete piles. Secant pile walls are reinforced with either steel rebar or with steel beams and are constructed by drilling under mud". (The same system Concert recently used at Tesoro, right across the street from residents in earlier phases of development).

there are stacks of the steel flat style piles at the NE part of the site right now beside the 3 pile drivers ...... same style piles we like we see in the WESTMINSTER QUAY wall that was pilled alongside the river.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

there are stacks of the steel flat style piles at the NE part of the site right now beside the 3 pile drivers ...... same style piles we like we see in the WESTMINSTER QUAY wall that was pilled alongside the river.

Well, I guess we'll find out soon enough if the PCL presentation was misleading, and there is the sort of piling that might make the locals upset. And I'm one of those too.

[WarrenC12]

Tesoro near OV was pile driving for a few weeks, I think they are done now. Similar ground conditions, no?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Tesoro near OV was pile driving for a few weeks, I think they are done now. Similar ground conditions, no?

Probably similar but then the site is so huge in comparison.

[Feathered Friend]

St. Paul’s Hospital Turns The Other Cheek As Vancouver’s UDP Hopes 12 Floor Cutback Will Promote Patient Recovery
1002 Station St – New St. Paul’s Hospital (DP-2021-00085) – Campus Public Realm Workshop

It would be wrong to assume that in the middle of a pandemic, the Urban Design Panel would spend two hours reviewing city council approved plans to build a new hospital in Vancouver. In reality, this meeting dragged on for over four hours, roughly twice as long as scheduled. The only small mercy is that it was broken into two parts, and so will our post, as Hannah and I hope to summarize this into something that’s tolerable to read.

Like the panel, we’ll start with the workshop on the wider campus, which has undergone significant changes to accommodate city council’s chosen method of bypassing the Burrard Inlet rail line crossing. Their decision to provide an underpass at Prior Street, and reject the once preferred Malkin Connector essentially turned everything here by 90 degrees. Still, these volunteers believed this flipped vision remained true to the plan’s original intent, and actually thought it was a huge step in the right direction.

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2021/06/01...r-cutback-will-promote-patient-recovery/

[Capitol Hill]

Okay, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight (I live in Seattle, but have lived in Vancouver BC in the past) is there a provision for something like a rooftop area for patients to walk? As someone who has spent some extended time in the hospital due to cancer they want you up and walking, but as a patient, what you crave more than anything is to get outdoors. It would be nice if this hospital provided a walking track with appropriate railings, emergency call buttons, etc. for patients.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

Okay, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight (I live in Seattle, but have lived in Vancouver BC in the past) is there a provision for something like a rooftop area for patients to walk? As someone who has spent some extended time in the hospital due to cancer they want you up and walking, but as a patient, what you crave more than anything is to get outdoors. It would be nice if this hospital provided a walking track with appropriate railings, emergency call buttons, etc. for patients.

The new BC Children's tower has a few of these areas. Some for staff, some for patients if I recall properly. I'd be surprised if St. Paul's doesn't have some as well.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

Okay, so I don’t really have a dog in this fight (I live in Seattle, but have lived in Vancouver BC in the past) is there a provision for something like a rooftop area for patients to walk? As someone who has spent some extended time in the hospital due to cancer they want you up and walking, but as a patient, what you crave more than anything is to get outdoors. It would be nice if this hospital provided a walking track with appropriate railings, emergency call buttons, etc. for patients.

There's the Therapeutic Green Space on the roof which has a tiny pathway and outdoor rehab equipment.

[Capitol Hill]

Excellent, thanks for the information. It’s so rare to ever see a major new hospital built from the ground up. In Seattle, our hospitals are all Frankenhospitals where you are either going to heal or get lost forever.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

Excellent, thanks for the information. It’s so rare to ever see a major new hospital built from the ground up. In Seattle, our hospitals are all Frankenhospitals where you are either going to heal or get lost forever.

Bear in mind that a lot of the rooftop area will have quite a lot of equipment, because the seismic and catastrophic event planning determined that there shouldn't be anything underground (other than parking) that could compromise the hospital being able to continue operating in the event of an earthquake, or after significant sea level rise. (If/when False Creek experiences much higher water levels, it's likely that some sort of mitigation will have to be taken over a much wider area in the longer term).

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Will this take the title from the equally-pasty Royal Jubilee Patient Care Centre as the ugliest new hospital in the developed world? Are they worried that patients wouldn't recognize that it's a hospital if it doesn't look like an mish-mash of flesh-coloured 1970's renovations? Why does it look like the podium is mostly-mechanical when it's only on level 5? Surely there's program in the hospital levels 3,4, or 6 that can benefit from windows

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by dleung

Why does it look like the podium is mostly-mechanical when it's only on level 5? Surely there's program in the hospital levels 3,4, or 6 that can benefit from windows

surgical level and associated rooms maybe? those don't have windows, i think.