PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X - Page 140

PHLtoNYC · #**2781** Posted **May 24, 2021, 10:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Wow. That was quick.

Really happy that National Development is the one behind this. The design of East Market is superb. We can know that these aren’t going to be two JKRP shitcubes.

Info on size of retail spaces in the 2nd two towers?

SEFTA · #**2782** Posted **May 25, 2021, 12:35 AM**

These are happening in Philly?
That's impressive density for that area.

200 Spring Garden Street

412 N 2nd Street

mcgrath618 · #**2783** Posted **May 25, 2021, 12:51 AM**

I LOVE 200 Spring Garden. It’s absolutely fantastic.

Summers, should I make two separate threads or just one? These are two separate lots, after all.

summersm343 · #**2784** Posted **May 25, 2021, 12:59 AM**

Amazing! This area really has the potential to be a brand new neighborhood if done right, like the area next to Commons Park in Denver, the Seaport District in Boston, or Mission Bay in San Francisco.

Willow Street could definitely be a pedestrian only commercial street with restaurants, cafes, nightlife and shopping.

Maybe the 76ers can build their mixed use Arena complex here in this area? If not 8th and Market, this might be the next best spot.

Yes, McGrath, definitely make 2 threads!

summersm343 · #**2785** Posted **May 25, 2021, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Info on size of retail spaces in the 2nd two towers?

I’m sure 200 Spring Garden has commercial/retail along Spring Garden.

Doubt the 2nd & Callowhill tower has any commercial and I wouldn’t blame the developers for not putting commercial at this location.

3rd&Brown · #**2786** Posted **May 25, 2021, 1:13 AM**

Aren't these contradictory statements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Doubt the 2nd & Callowhill tower has any commercial and I wouldn’t blame the developers for not putting commercial at this location.

Quote:

Amazing! This area really has the potential to be a brand new neighborhood if done right, like the area next to Commons Park in Denver, the Seaport District in Boston, or Mission Bay in San Francisco.

summersm343 · #**2787** Posted **May 25, 2021, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Aren't these contradictory statements?

I meant the tower specifically located at 2nd & Callowhill. Not the entire neighborhood. 2nd & Callowhill is bound by a highway off ramp on one side, and a highway overpass on the other side.

This area can support retail on Spring Garden, 3rd Street, 4th Street, 5th Street, Willow Street, etc. as it builds up. 2nd Street though? Highly unlikely. Callowhill Street, highly unlikely.

mcgrath618 · #**2788** Posted **May 25, 2021, 12:00 PM**

200 Spring Garden

412 N 2nd Street

reparcsyks · #**2789** Posted **May 25, 2021, 12:43 PM**

This is a massive development, figuratively speaking. A huge problem in Philly (and American cities in general) are dead zones between vibrant neighborhoods. NoLibs and Old City should have been linked ages ago by a unified 2nd Street corridor. While 95 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, it’s still possible to have the western edge of 2nd Street activated, and this development looks like it will do that.

Here is how the sites looks today, FYI.

412 N 2nd Street:

200 Spring Garden (with arrow showing 412 N 2nd Street in background):

Needless to say, this is a game-changing development. The idea of an intact urban row from 2nd & Girard to 2nd & Walnut is the stuff of dreams.

Aaamazarite · #**2790** Posted **May 25, 2021, 1:06 PM**

Cool designs-- this ish is a long time coming.

However, I anticipate problems getting 412 N 2nd built without Crown Castle interfering-- their cell tower at 309 Callowhill is placed there to serve the I-95/676 interchange with a direct line of sight. They're not going to be happy about a building getting in the way-- not sure what they can do about it beyond appeal the permit, but being that they're a multi-billion dollar company, they can afford to make problems.

summersm343 · #**2791** Posted **May 25, 2021, 1:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

This is a massive development, figuratively speaking. A huge problem in Philly (and American cities in general) are dead zones between vibrant neighborhoods. NoLibs and Old City should have been linked ages ago by a unified 2nd Street corridor. While 95 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵, it’s still possible to have the western edge of 2nd Street activated, and this development looks like it will do that.

The eastern side of 2nd Street through this area should be a park/green space. The City needs to get together with PennDot to beautify, landscape and activate this space.

I think it would be better served to focus mostly on making 3rd Street the main connection between Old City and NoLibs. Since 3rd Street can more easily support retail/commercial. 2nd Street is going to have a hard time keeping retail abutting I-95.

3rd&Brown · #**2792** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

I meant the tower specifically located at 2nd & Callowhill. Not the entire neighborhood. 2nd & Callowhill is bound by a highway off ramp on one side, and a highway overpass on the other side.

This area can support retail on Spring Garden, 3rd Street, 4th Street, 5th Street, Willow Street, etc. as it builds up. 2nd Street though? Highly unlikely. Callowhill Street, highly unlikely.

2nd & Callowhill can support a big box type retail use that requires (hopefully underground) parking.

As someone who walks regularly between NoLibs and Old City, the natural existing pedestrian paths are 2nd Street and 3rd Street because both 2nd Street and 3rd Street have existing retail amenities in both neighborhoods and existing foot traffic.

Literally nobody walks on 4th or 5th between the two neighborhoods as in Old City in particular they are deadzones consumed by the Mint and on ramps for 676.

Maybe this is where we get our Container Store location.

summersm343 · #**2793** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

2nd & Callowhill can support a big box type retail use that requires (hopefully underground) parking.

As someone who walks regularly between NoLibs and Old City, the natural existing pedestrian paths are 2nd Street and 3rd Street because both 2nd Street and 3rd Street have existing retail amenities in both neighborhoods and existing foot traffic.

Literally nobody walks on 4th or 5th between the two neighborhoods as in Old City in particular they are deadzones consumed by the Mint and on ramps for 676.

Maybe this is where we get our Container Store location.

I hear ya, and that makes sense. I think a Big Box retail location makes a ton of sense here actually.

As for smaller commercial/retail like restaurants, bars, cafes, smaller footprint shops... I think 3rd Street makes more sense. Retail/commercial should be focused along 3rd Street, Spring Garden Street and Willow Street in this area.

You're going to have a hard time keeping retail on 2nd Street when it abuts an I-95 off ramp.

arkitect13 · #**2794** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:19 PM**

So is this redevelopment essentially following the I-95 corridor? Im not sure how extensive it really is, Ideally it would follow I-95 and branch out a bit but not sure if that could happen...

JohnIII · #**2795** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:25 PM**

This is exceptional, absolutely exceptional because this brings cohesiveness between Northern Liberties and Downtown, in particularly Olde City; if we take into view as well a potential development on 4th and Callowhill; this is quite good.

Redddog · #**2796** Posted **May 25, 2021, 2:31 PM**

This will be the first domino to fall in an area that has been curiously resistant to development given it's proximity to two very hot areas of the city.

This is just the beginning...

ScreamShatter · #**2797** Posted **May 25, 2021, 5:01 PM**

Love these proposals. This area has been waiting for density. Maybe they should call it New City and go bold with design.

PHLtoNYC · #**2798** Posted **May 25, 2021, 5:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

2nd & Callowhill can support a big box type retail use that requires (hopefully underground) parking.

Maybe this is where we get our Container Store location.

That would be great.

I just realized City Fitness is on the corner of 2nd & Spring Garden, they will likely take at least one large retail space in this development.

Redddog · #**2799** Posted **May 25, 2021, 5:18 PM**

Thats a good call...

Redddog · #**2800** Posted **May 25, 2021, 5:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Love these proposals. This area has been waiting for density. Maybe they should call it New City and go bold with design.

I like it...