PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Can someone pull some text?

It's not a long article. It's mostly about East Market but the important tidbits related to the title:

Much in the way East Market reinvigorated a portion of Market Street with the mixed-use development, National is looking to borrow from what it has learned from that project and do a similar version though on a smaller scale in Northern Liberties.

“If we can do it right, we would like to link Old City and Northern Liberties,” said Dan Killinger, managing director at National. “It seems like an obvious gap.”

The company has started to assemble properties in that area, buying four properties on Second Street between Callowhill and Spring Garden streets. The parcels Killinger owns stretch from Willow to Noble streets and from Noble to Spring Garden. Combined, the properties provide an expansive area upon which to develop. “We’re in the planning stages now,” Killinger said.

While that part of the city poses its own set of challenges, Killinger said, the same planning principals used with East Market would be adopted here such as activating streets, incorporating a mix of uses, using retail as amenities to a residential component and making it pedestrian friendly.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

It's not a long article. It's mostly about East Market but the important tidbits related to the title:

This is actually a really big deal. These guys do fantastic work, and this area is currently a deadzone. Considering that there is an MFL stop right there, this seems like a no brainer.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This is actually a really big deal. These guys do fantastic work, and this area is currently a deadzone. Considering that there is an MFL stop right there, this seems like a no brainer.

I like their vision. Would be nice if the city could work on capping/burying the 676 though.

[philly_account12]

Looked into it a little bit more. They own:

• 200-24 SPRING GARDEN ST
• 460-74 N 2ND ST
• 428-58 N 2ND ST
• 412-26 N 2ND ST

All 4 plots have 1 story buildings on them and are zoned CMX-3 so demo and new construction is probably the plan. I'm interested to see what they come up with because it is a difficult stretch with 95 on one side, 676 on another, and an off ramp between the two literally over top of one of the plots they own.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

There’s a lot of having your cake and eating it too going around. A lot of folks who probably voted for Krasner are also fed up with escalating “low level offenses” that are mounting such as the ATV/dirt bike situation. There’s been a big push to call on the city to do more about it. Unfortunately, the police are spread thin for obvious reasons and are having difficulty addressing concerns from residents in general. I’m for reforms involving lethal force, but everything else that is being pushed is frankly nuts.

On a side note, I live on Broad St. The noise from the dirt bikes makes living here almost unbearable. I’m planning on moving out as are many other residents in my building. If the issue continues unabated, I would expect to see considerable deinvestment.

It sounds like you're taking your understandable frustration with the ATV noise and using it to color your view of the whole City. As in, if someone could control the ATV cowboys you'd be glad to stay in the City, and so would everybody else. But if the cowboys continue then you expect alot of people to join you in leaving. Unfortunately I don't think that's how it works!

There are always bad things going on in the City and there's always alot of good things. This mayor has not been a good cheer leader in reminding people of the good stuff. If somebody likes city living then most times they'll find ways to handle the junk, and if not they'll leave and have stories to tell their kids, "back when I was younger------"

Living here for decades makes it alittle easier get some perspective on the latest problem of the day. Hey, there's always the schools.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by City Wide

It sounds like you're taking your understandable frustration with the ATV noise and using it to color your view of the whole City. As in, if someone could control the ATV cowboys you'd be glad to stay in the City, and so would everybody else. But if the cowboys continue then you expect alot of people to join you in leaving. Unfortunately I don't think that's how it works!

There are always bad things going on in the City and there's always alot of good things. This mayor has not been a good cheer leader in reminding people of the good stuff. If somebody likes city living then most times they'll find ways to handle the junk, and if not they'll leave and have stories to tell their kids, "back when I was younger------"

Living here for decades makes it alittle easier get some perspective on the latest problem of the day. Hey, there's always the schools.

That is your assumption - I just provided one example. Various community associations are also dealing with more issues pertaining to petty crimes, vandalism, robbery, assault and yes shootings. Of course there are good things that happen in the city and there’s a lot to be positive about but it would be irresponsible to dismiss the issue of skyrocketing crime and homicides as an overreaction of some kind and is a rather flippant attitude toward victims and their families.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by philly_account12

Looked into it a little bit more. They own:

• 200-24 SPRING GARDEN ST
• 460-74 N 2ND ST
• 428-58 N 2ND ST
• 412-26 N 2ND ST

All 4 plots have 1 story buildings on them and are zoned CMX-3 so demo and new construction is probably the plan. I'm interested to see what they come up with because it is a difficult stretch with 95 on one side, 676 on another, and an off ramp between the two literally over top of one of the plots they own.

Wow. This is huge. I just walked that stretch with my wife and we were amazed that this hadn't been targeted yet by developers. It really is such a dead zone.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Wow. This is huge. I just walked that stretch with my wife and we were amazed that this hadn't been targeted yet by developers. It really is such a dead zone.

Agreed. That section of 2nd feels like a service road for I-95.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

That is your assumption - I just provided one example. Various community associations are also dealing with more issues pertaining to petty crimes, vandalism, robbery, assault and yes shootings. Of course there are good things that happen in the city and there’s a lot to be positive about but it would be irresponsible to dismiss the issue of skyrocketing crime and homicides as an overreaction of some kind and is a rather flippant attitude toward victims and their families.

violent crime is unacceptable but it doesnt affect all people equally as we all know. Which is one reason you don't have mass outcry over what is going on. But the city does not have adequate tools to fight this alone. This is what is wrong with America- and its sad to watch people buy into this mindset. The issues in Philly and other major cities are partially the byproduct of decisions made at the state and national level. Gun violence is up in cities all over the county which tells you this is much bigger than a few soft on crime liberals in city hall. Action needs to be taken at the state and federal level but because of the demographic most affected by this violence that isnt happening.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I've done this as recently as 2017, and this is true for the most part. This isn't to say that Baltimore doesn't have great neighborhoods, but the bad ones are really bad. Even the area to the immediate north of the Inner Harbor feels unsafe, but certain areas are straight up bleak. I grew up in West Philly, so I'm not scared of dangerous neighborhoods; however, I've probably felt the most uncomfortable in West Baltimore.

As for crime in the city: it is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed, but some people blow what's happening out of proportion. Just as it did before this recent spike, most of the crime in the city takes place in the predictable spots--with some slight changes due to gentrification. I live in the southwestern corner of Francisville, and if I turn off the news, delete the Citizen app (which I did over a year ago), and generally don't go above Cecil B. Moore Ave west of Broad late at night, it's as if crime (aside from the occasional property crime) is rare.

thats good for you, not so good for the 95% of philadelphians who dont live in francisville. Saying that this problem is being blown out of proportion simply because you live and operate within a tiny box where this stuff isnt common makes no sense. You cant blow 750 shot in 2021 out of proportion, its impossible. On pace for 550-600 murders cannot be blown out of proportion- its a major problem and contrary to what is being propagated here its only a matter of time before it affects the "Gentrifiers" - in fact it already has in many cases, even if they arent the direct victims of the gun violence. Im not a fan of local news, but the stats are the stats- and they are horrible right now. Everyone in power is responsible for the tepid response, and I mean people beyond City Hall.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I just look at what has been proven to work. Your approach was tried in NYC in the 70’s/80’s. While I don’t agree with everything Giuliani did, he certainly changed the city around relatively quickly. Back then both sides supported him. I’d just really rather not have skyrocketing homicides and violent crime. Perhaps I’m way off base in that...

What's my approach? I didn't realize you spoke for me.

The criminal justice system was just and fair in the era of Jim Crow? Asking for a friend.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

What's my approach? I didn't realize you spoke for me.

The criminal justice system was just and fair in the era of Jim Crow? Asking for a friend.

Oh please, don’t try to be cute. I believe you support Krasner, yes? I’m aware of his policies.

Huh? You’re using hyperbolic rhetoric. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Our judicial system is the same if not worse than the Jim Crow South?

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by cardeza

violent crime is unacceptable but it doesnt affect all people equally as we all know. Which is one reason you don't have mass outcry over what is going on. But the city does not have adequate tools to fight this alone. This is what is wrong with America- and its sad to watch people buy into this mindset. The issues in Philly and other major cities are partially the byproduct of decisions made at the state and national level. Gun violence is up in cities all over the county which tells you this is much bigger than a few soft on crime liberals in city hall. Action needs to be taken at the state and federal level but because of the demographic most affected by this violence that isnt happening.

I agree in part. However, quite a few DAs with similar views on law enforcement reform were backed and elected in many large cities around the same time Krasner was. Before then crime was plummeting, but here we are today..

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Agreed. That section of 2nd feels like a service road for I-95.

This will be transformative for sure.

I love when out of towners have more vision than the locals.

[ok-ez]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Agreed. That section of 2nd feels like a service road for I-95.

they were drill testing at 2nd & callowhill the other day

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Oh please, don’t try to be cute. I believe you support Krasner, yes? I’m aware of his policies.

Huh? You’re using hyperbolic rhetoric. I have idea what you’re talking about. We’re living in the Jim Crow South?

"cute"?

You can have a competent police force that doesn't rely on dirty white supremacist cops who plant evidence and lie to get people convicted.

You can be both "just" in your prosecution of crime and "tough" on crime.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas. I don't support all of Krasner's policies. But on balance, I support more of his than that dirty prosecutor who ran against him.

I guess you think you have to cheat to win? Why not just have a smart evidence based approach to solving crime?

Also. Guiliani didn't fix the crime problem in NYC. Bloomberg did. And it wasn't just by throwing a bunch of money at the police.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I agree in part. However, quite a few DAs with similar views on law enforcement reform were backed and elected in many large cities around the same time Krasner was. Before then crime was plummeting, but here we are today..

your inability to differentiate between correlation and causation is baffling.

there are plenty of confounding factors that affect the increase in crime.

police are also clearing fewer homicides than they have in the past. where's the blame for them? why throw more money at them if they aren't spending the money they have effectively.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

"cute"?

You can have a competent police force that doesn't rely on dirty white supremacist cops who plant evidence and lie to get people convicted.

You can be both "just" in your prosecution of crime and "tough" on crime.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas. I don't support all of Krasner's policies. But on balance, I support more of his than that dirty prosecutor who ran against him.

I guess you think you have to cheat to win? Why not just have a smart evidence based approach to solving crime?

Also. Guiliani didn't fix the crime problem in NYC. Bloomberg did. And it wasn't just by throwing a bunch of money at the police.

If there is corruption or white supremacy within law enforcement then yes absolutely there needs to be reforms to weed them out. But calling to defund or abolish the police or create policies that cause crime to skyrocket to try to “reimagine policing” while innocent people die in the process is crazy. Now you’re putting words in my mouth. Do you honestly think I approve of cheating simply because I oppose Krasner’s policies? Geesh.

Just because you want something to be true, doesn’t mean it isn’t. According to Politifact, “The violent crime rate dropped by 56 percent during the eight years he served as mayor (Guilliani). Murder, down nearly two-thirds. Robbery, down 67 percent. Aggravated assault, down 28 percent.”

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

your inability to differentiate between correlation and causation is baffling.

there are plenty of confounding factors that affect the increase in crime.

police are also clearing fewer homicides than they have in the past. where's the blame for them? why throw more money at them if they aren't spending the money they have effectively.

And yet you didn’t provide any of those factors but I suppose thats because you’d have to think up your correlation/causation rationale. Covid? It could be a factor. I suppose the proof will be on the pudding in a few years. Also crime started going up in 2019.

I have no idea. Hire better cops then, create better systems within it. Although they’re harder to recruit now because the profession has been demonized and demoralized.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

your inability to differentiate between correlation and causation is baffling.

there are plenty of confounding factors that affect the increase in crime.

police are also clearing fewer homicides than they have in the past. where's the blame for them? why throw more money at them if they aren't spending the money they have effectively.

More than anything, I want to be proven wrong about Krasner’s policies for the sake of the city. My fear is crime continues to escalate for the next 4 years and politicians use every trick in the excuse book to rationalize their same policies while the city returns to a state of decline. It’s a one party city; that party is responsible for it. Hope you have the upmost confidence in it. I really do. I wish it success, otherwise we all lose.