[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Honestly the Landmark would look better if it had, like, a bit of asymmetry. A six-storey pediment with an additional six storeys on one side of it would have the same footage and a much less blocky profile.

If you zoom out and look at in the overall context of the area from a distance - does that change anything? Seems looming from street level but maybe not so much overall

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

If you zoom out and look at in the overall context of the area from a distance - does that change anything? Seems looming from street level but maybe not so much overall

It's a Soviet apartment block with a view and more windows. It's way out at the flat end of the peninsula so any added height would really pop above the industrial warehouses to the SE.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's a Soviet apartment block with a view and more windows. It's way out at the flat end of the peninsula so any added height would really pop above the industrial warehouses to the SE.

It is certainly underwhelming from a design perspective, and due to its location will probably be the least impressive 12+ story buildings in the province. The lack of good street interaction is my main concern, which I know is a result of the land issues on-site, but it will still feel very disconnected from Sydney Street and the beach.

Overall like I said, still a good development in terms of adding to our housing growth on the peninsula, but the devil is in the details.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

It is certainly underwhelming from a design perspective, and due to its location will probably be the least impressive 12+ story buildings in the province. The lack of good street interaction is my main concern, which I know is a result of the land issues on-site, but it will still feel very disconnected from Sydney Street and the beach.

Overall like I said, still a good development in terms of adding to our housing growth on the peninsula, but the devil is in the details.

Pretty much my feelings on it. Not the most amazing development but much better than what the site has been for the past however long. It's a ton of units and bodies added to the Uptown peninsula.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

It is certainly underwhelming from a design perspective, and due to its location will probably be the least impressive 12+ story buildings in the province. The lack of good street interaction is my main concern, which I know is a result of the land issues on-site, but it will still feel very disconnected from Sydney Street and the beach.

Overall like I said, still a good development in terms of adding to our housing growth on the peninsula, but the devil is in the details.

I mean, they're still hashing out landscaping details with the city, so hopefully it will be less pathetic. And it's only 9 storeys currently. I think the plan is to run Harbour Passage south to TCB and east to Crown.

Frankly, an impediment to development at TCB is how much land the Armory occupies without using. It's a huge space and should be sold off.

I always thought the vacant land at the corner of Broad and Sydney would make a good spot for a little residential infill.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's a Soviet apartment block with a view and more windows. It's way out at the flat end of the peninsula so any added height would really pop above the industrial warehouses to the SE.

I really don't feel that it's that bad, I feel it's far from a Soviet apartment block, also much more amenities. Viewing that building from the harbour bridge or the west side would be far better than looking at potash terminal. The added colour wild draw your eyes away from the warehouses around it. This is the initial plan. Plans do change. I would have liked to see more height though instead of sprawl.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by homebody

I really don't feel that it's that bad, I feel it's far from a Soviet apartment block, also much more amenities. Viewing that building from the harbour bridge or the west side would be far better than looking at potash terminal. The added colour wild draw your eyes away from the warehouses around it. This is the initial plan. Plans do change. I would have liked to see more height though instead of sprawl.

Amenities come and go, the structure is forever. The prominence and visibility of the location from the sea, Red Head, and the West side is huge. The only things it has that Soviet blocks didn't are parking and obtuse angles.

[cdnguys]

I haven’t seen any more corrugated metal roofing going up on side of The Atlantic for a week now. Did city put a stop to it?

[homebody]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Amenities come and go, the structure is forever. The prominence and visibility of the location from the sea, Red Head, and the West side is huge. The only things it has that Soviet blocks didn't are parking and obtuse angles.

Still better then looking at what is there now.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Amenities come and go, the structure is forever. The prominence and visibility of the location from the sea, Red Head, and the West side is huge. The only things it has that Soviet blocks didn't are parking and obtuse angles.

At one point the entire Water street frontage onto the harbour was literal sore-eye warehousing, eventually replaced by cruise terminals. Structures are not forever.

[ColSJ]

Noticed there is now a construction trailer and some heavy equipment at Fundy Quay.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

Noticed there is now a construction trailer and some heavy equipment at Fundy Quay.

[NewIreland]

BTW... is phase 2 of Harbourfront Residences at Three Sisters ever going to be built or are we always going to have a blank metal wall and an empty lot? You'd think that now would be the best possible time to complete the project.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

BTW... is phase 2 of Harbourfront Residences at Three Sisters ever going to be built or are we always going to have a blank metal wall and an empty lot? You'd think that now would be the best possible time to complete the project.

Not sure there is a demand for more condos there. At any given time there are 8-13 condos listed for sale on MLS for prices cheaper than what owners originally paid for them. Maybe the developer is focused on his other projects or they are waiting for AIM to he shut down across the harbour

[adamuptownsj]

The City has a list of vacant and derelict properties available for anyone interested. They are coordinating with owners of these properties to arrange sales. Long overdue and good news.

I extracted the ones uptown (south of Union) and can share the list with anyone interested.

Commercial or large projects:

58 Broad Street (Catholic church)
6 Charlotte Street (storefront)
164 Germain Street (United church)
221 Prince William Street (222 Water)

Residential:

182 Britain Street
59 Broad Street
115 Carmarthen Street
60-62 Carmarthen Street
289 Charlotte Street
375 Crown Street
55 Dorchester Street
57 Dorchester Street (46 Sewell)
259 Duke Street
18-20 Harding Street
111-113 King Street East (42 Carmarthen)
83 Mecklenburg Street
34 Pitt Street
278 Prince William Street
274-276 Prince William Street
31 Queen Street
206 Wentworth Street

They also listed several currently under restoration that are still technically vacant/derelict.

170 Carmarthen Street
194-196 Duke Street
161-163 Germain Street
91 King Street
180-182 King Street E
208-210 King Street E
176-178 Princess Street

[adamuptownsj]

Since the Waterloo Village is getting more uptown every year, I'll post them too. Would be nice to see a coop or SJNPH take on Peters, Sewell, or the residential ones on Hazen.

1 Cliff Street (St Vincent's)
12-14 Cliff Street

86 Coburg Street

97 Hazen Street
99 Hazen Street
115 Hazen Street (commercial)

22 Paddock Street

17 Peters Street
23 Peters Street
27 Peters Street
(all three in a row)

61 Sewell Street
71 Sewell Street
75 Sewell Street
(in a row with a vacant lot in between)

218 Waterloo Street (storefront)

[JHikka]

Maybe someday there'll be the demand but that whole stretch of Peters from 49-51 all the way to Coburg could be developed into something substantial. Take all the surface parking across the street, too. Five minute walk to City Market and Peel Plaza and 10-15 mins for most employment in the Uptown. At some point these streets (Peters, Paddock, Sewell, Coburg, Dorchester) will be developed because there's simply too much potential there not to.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Maybe someday there'll be the demand but that whole stretch of Peters from 49-51 all the way to Coburg could be developed into something substantial. Take all the surface parking across the street, too. Five minute walk to City Market and Peel Plaza and 10-15 mins for most employment in the Uptown. At some point these streets (Peters, Paddock, Sewell, Coburg, Dorchester) will be developed because there's simply too much potential there not to.

Coburg and Dorchester south of Sewell, sure. Coburg could benefit from better lighting, a 4-way stop at Garden/Paddock, and a regular evening police presence. Union and Coburg is extremely prime- those three vacant lots would make a large footprint. Amazingly, that's the only vacant area on the street.

The whole mess northeast of Sewell is not getting fixed any time soon, but the lower part of Dorchester will fill in as you said at least. It's institutional, desolate, bad view.

Paddock is pretty normal already, Cliff hinges on St Vincent's getting new life. Peters should be on a street repair menu next year (along with Pitt).

Does the Church have any plans to continue its little development on Golding and Waterloo? Across Waterloo from the Cathedral, 17-19 Richmond, several spots on Exmouth, corner of Cliff and Waterloo... lots of spots in this area. Someone mentioned Cliff and Waterloo here a while back. And with the replacement of the rest of Waterloo's street and sidewalk coming this year, that should spur something.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Maybe someday there'll be the demand but that whole stretch of Peters from 49-51 all the way to Coburg could be developed into something substantial. Take all the surface parking across the street, too. Five minute walk to City Market and Peel Plaza and 10-15 mins for most employment in the Uptown. At some point these streets (Peters, Paddock, Sewell, Coburg, Dorchester) will be developed because there's simply too much potential there not to.

I honestly don't understand why "North of Union" hasn't grown much recently. It is far closer to the business core of the Uptown, to the City Market, to shopping, etc. I understand it has a tainted reputation in the eyes of many, but I've lived there, I've worked there, it's perfectly fine and has a lot of really intriguing character and streets.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I honestly don't understand why "North of Union" hasn't grown much recently. It is far closer to the business core of the Uptown, to the City Market, to shopping, etc. I understand it has a tainted reputation in the eyes of many, but I've lived there, I've worked there, it's perfectly fine and has a lot of really intriguing character and streets.

Just by fixing a point on Google Maps, everything south of Paddock-to-Hazen-to-Dorchester-to-Sewell is within 500 meters of King and Germain (a decent proxy for the city center).

In the South End, only areas west of Carmarthen and north of Queen are that close.

I think a lot of the bad rap comes from how absolutely busted Waterloo/Cliff/Paddock all looked until EXTREMELY recently. Took a walk down them, and Peters, and they all look dramatically nicer than they did in 2016 per Maps/my memory.

Vacant building list/Vacant lot count for each.

Dorchester: Many lots/2 buildings
Coburg: Two adjacent lots/no buildings
Carlton: No lots/no buildings

Sewell: 4 lots/3 buildings (plus 2 city parking lots)
Hazen: 3 lots/3 buildings inc. 1 commercial

Cliff: 3 lots/2 buildings inc. St Vincent's
Paddock: 2 lots/1 building (plus 1 city/1 Rogers lot)
Peters: 4 lots/3 vacants (plus 3 city/1 Tims lot)

So it's really not that bad lately. Coburg is built out nicely with one big project, Cliff has only one vacant house and one lot on the south side of the street and the rest will come together with St Vincent's, and Paddock is progressing too.

I mapped out it all here. https://imgur.com/a/8SXNfwS

Red are vacant lots, Blue vacant city lots, yellow major projects, and stars on vacant buildings. Looking at it, Saint John should prioritize Sewell and Paddock in the short term, and in the medium term axe the street-side portion of the south-of-Peters parking lot.

EDIT: Adding a four way stop at Garden and Coburg would make the entire area slower and more appealing. Not sure how much this would mess with traffic at the Garden and Somerset intersection, which should be a roundabout that Hazen actially connects to, anyway.