Regina Construction III

[LittleBoy]

Originally Posted by skphc08

Disagree. We will just continue to miss shows and events at ~10,000 seats. Build it correctly, one time. NHL size is the right size. And not because we will get a NHL team but for business cases for most larger scale events that occur in the winter and marginal seasons.

How many events are we really missing out on between October and April? Is it worth building an extra 5,000-7,500 seats and spending an extra $100M just for one extra event a year?

[aberrant]

Originally Posted by Festivus

Aberrant, I would say that decisions based on fear are a good thing, in terms of the pandemic. I hope your comment doesn't imply that you believe people who are pro-mask, pro-restrictions, etc, are "afraid," and that this is bad (this is a common rhetoric from anti-mask people). There is good reason to be afraid of the spread of COVID-19, and while we can argue in good faith about specific measures governments have taken and what their effectiveness has been, there is no arguing how dangerous the disease is, and how many deaths have been averted thanks to restrictions. Fear is a useful emotion, and anyone not afraid of what a disease can do to them is not taking it seriously enough. I apologize if I misinterpreted your comment.

Nah, I was saying that attendance at events and travelling wont be driven by fear, but more of economics. These industries are decimated. I have spoken with many of them. Air travel took 10 years to recover from 9/11, it wasnt because of fear of flying.

Fear is not going drive vacancies and bankruptcy of business. Economics will.

[yveseluj]

Originally Posted by LittleBoy

How many events are we really missing out on between October and April? Is it worth building an extra 5,000-7,500 seats and spending an extra $100M just for one extra event a year?

No.

[StealthGirl]

Originally Posted by LittleBoy

How many events are we really missing out on between October and April? Is it worth building an extra 5,000-7,500 seats and spending an extra $100M just for one extra event a year?

Esp given that we are already paying off one huge project that has recurring property tax increases planned to help pay for it and the major tenant is a team in a league on very unstable footing bc of COVID. I can't see there being any appetite for a new arena with public money and I don't think for a second that Marquart is going to foot the bill on his own.

[skphc08]

Originally Posted by LittleBoy

How many events are we really missing out on between October and April? Is it worth building an extra 5,000-7,500 seats and spending an extra $100M just for one extra event a year?

This is subjective and will depend upon who you ask. Also, I'm not suggesting using public money. And I realize there probably wouldn't be private investment interested in doing this immediately or for decades.

All that being said, I would be in favour of a proper-sized arena and not a "mid-sized" one because I don't want to be overlooked as we have been for the last 20 years. Big indoor concerts and events go to Saskatoon and not Regina. Plus, given a lifespan of 40-50+ years potentially, is a smaller facility going to be adequate for Regina towards the middle and end of that span?

If it was private money building, I think the economics/business case are with a $100m 16-20k seater versus a $50m 8-10k seater.

[yveseluj]

There is no scenario where you're building an NHL-size arena for $100m.

[skphc08]

Originally Posted by yveseluj

There is no scenario where you're building an NHL-size arena for $100m.

Fargodome was ~$93m USD.

BellMTS in Winnipeg was ~$133mCAD and could likely be scaled down a bit for cost savings if needed.

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by skphc08

Fargodome was ~$93m USD.

BellMTS in Winnipeg was ~$133mCAD and could likely be scaled down a bit for cost savings if needed.

The MTS Centre was built 14 years ago. That's $180 today in CPI. Construction inflation is more like 3.5%, or $240 million.

We will not see an arena built before 2030.

[skphc08]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

The MTS Centre was built 14 years ago. That's $180 today in CPI. Construction inflation is more like 3.5%, or $240 million.

We will not see an arena built before 2030.

I think that is exaggerated, but I agree in general.

In any case, if Brandt Centre needed replacing, I would be pleased to see a "standard" sized arena built, if the business case was reasonably similar to SaskTel Centre.

[McBean]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

Esp given that we are already paying off one huge project that has recurring property tax increases planned to help pay for it and the major tenant is a team in a league on very unstable footing bc of COVID. I can't see there being any appetite for a new arena with public money and I don't think for a second that Marquart is going to foot the bill on his own.

100% correct. After the generational damage of covid-19, nobody will be building new arenas/stadiums in Canada for a while.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by skphc08

This is subjective and will depend upon who you ask. Also, I'm not suggesting using public money. And I realize there probably wouldn't be private investment interested in doing this immediately or for decades.

All that being said, I would be in favour of a proper-sized arena and not a "mid-sized" one because I don't want to be overlooked as we have been for the last 20 years. Big indoor concerts and events go to Saskatoon and not Regina. Plus, given a lifespan of 40-50+ years potentially, is a smaller facility going to be adequate for Regina towards the middle and end of that span?

If it was private money building, I think the economics/business case are with a $100m 16-20k seater versus a $50m 8-10k seater.

You are probably off by a factor of 3x on your costs. Also there is no scenario where private money pays for it. It just cannot make enough money in Regina to pay for operating, let alone the capital cost and financing costs.

[jigglysquishy]

Originally Posted by Stormer

You are probably off by a factor of 3x on your costs. Also there is no scenario where private money pays for it. It just cannot make enough money in Regina to pay for operating, let alone the capital cost and financing costs.

The Agridome will be replaced one day. It will almost certainly have some private money involved, but I expect 80+% of the capital cost will be borne by the government.

[skphc08]

Originally Posted by Stormer

You are probably off by a factor of 3x on your costs. Also there is no scenario where private money pays for it. It just cannot make enough money in Regina to pay for operating, let alone the capital cost and financing costs.

We just spent $278m on an outdoor stadium. You think an indoor stadium with half the capacity will cost $300m+?

[yveseluj]

Originally Posted by skphc08

We just spent $278m on an outdoor stadium. You think an indoor stadium with half the capacity will cost $300m+?

A reasonably well-equipped arena with 10k-15k capacity will easily cost well north of 200m. There is no modern example built to the contrary.

Calgary is currently building a 19k capacity arena for 550m.
Place Bell in Laval cost 200m in 2017 for a 10k arena.
Detroit's new arena cost 733m in 2017.
The Videotron Centre in Quebec city cost 350m in 2015.

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Would be a pretty amazing “revitalize Regina downtown’s east side/Broad Street” to build a new hockey arena there tho. Come that day.

[Festivus]

If we're talking massive subsidies to private business, I feel like giving $300 million to a bunch of cool restaurants to prop them up for years would be a better use!

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Originally Posted by Festivus

If we're talking massive subsidies to private business, I feel like giving $300 million to a bunch of cool restaurants to prop them up for years would be a better use!

Wouldn’t tourist and population draws downtown help those restaurants in the long run with more people having more reasons to be in the downtown area longer?

It will take public and private investment/incentives to spur growth and development on the east side of downtown. Period.

[jigglysquishy]

With the Semples buying out Marquart for the Pats, the Broad Street arena is officially dead.

[skthunder77]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

With the Semples buying out Marquart for the Pats, the Broad Street arena is officially dead.

So when I read the post on the "possible" location and that Marquart owned some of the land already I wondered about if the Semples were also part owner because isn't that also the location where Brandt was going to build a potential office tower back in the boom?

[Festivus]

Originally Posted by one_brick_at_a_time

Wouldn’t tourist and population draws downtown help those restaurants in the long run with more people having more reasons to be in the downtown area longer?

It will take public and private investment/incentives to spur growth and development on the east side of downtown. Period.

I would argue that having tonnes of restaurants and shops downtime (that are open in the weekday evenings, especially) would be a better draw for people to live downtown than a stadium would be. People who live downtown are going to spend much more time and money there than people going to a Pats game.