O-Train Line 1/3 [ Stage 2 | East Extension | Blair to Trim] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Would it be possible to eventually add new stations at Jasmine, Centrum and Tenth Line without a lengthy shutdown like we're doing with the Trillium Line ?

Isn't bridge bus service now an Ottawa tradition?

[drizzo_613]

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Would it be possible to eventually add new stations at Jasmine, Centrum and Tenth Line without a lengthy shutdown like we're doing with the Trillium Line ?

I was under impression that most of Trillium is being double tracked in addition to adding stations which is why they shut down to line. Confed line wouldn't have that problem down the road unless they choose to realign tracks for any new stations.

[Baybreeze12]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Found this on O-Train Fans. Ridership projections for each Confederation Line station, 2031 and 2048. Page 21:

file:///C:/Users/jgleeson/Downloads/Confederation%20Line%20Extension%20Project%20-%20Schedule%2015-2%20Part%204%20-%20Stations%20(Redacted)-AODA.pdf

Also, station features (washrooms, retail, entrances...)

file:///C:/Users/jgleeson/Downloads/Confederation%20Line%20Extension%20Project%20-%20Schedule%2015-2%20Part%204%20-%20Stations%20-%20Appendix%20A%20(Redacted)-AODA.pdf

I think you may have provided a link to local files on your computer. If anyone else is looking to access the station-by-station breakdown you'll need to go here and find the PDF listed as "Confederation Line Extension Project - Schedule 15-2 Part 4 - Stations (Redacted)-AODA"

Keep in mind this is just peak AM hour station ridership, which IMO is a bit of a shame as it only represents the busiest single morning hour of a standard day, and doesn't capture any off-peak travel.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Baybreeze12

I think you may have provided a link to local files on your computer. If anyone else is looking to access the station-by-station breakdown you'll need to go here and find the PDF listed as "Confederation Line Extension Project - Schedule 15-2 Part 4 - Stations (Redacted)-AODA"

Keep in mind this is just peak AM hour station ridership, which IMO is a bit of a shame as it only represents the busiest single morning hour of a standard day, and doesn't capture any off-peak travel.

I opened it on O-Train Fans and copy-pasted the link. I guess that doesn't wok.

Here's where I got them:

Confed: https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/doc-archi...t-agreement-confederation-line-extension
Trillium: https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/doc-archi...roject-agreement-trillium-line-extension

They were in the station sections.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I opened it on O-Train Fans and copy-pasted the link. I guess that doesn't wok.

Here's where I got them:

Confed: https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/doc-archi...t-agreement-confederation-line-extension
Trillium: https://www.railfans.ca/otrain/doc-archi...roject-agreement-trillium-line-extension

They were in the station sections.

Good Day.

Just to be complete, here is the reference page from City :

https://ottawa.ca/en/planning-developmen...e-2-light-rail-transit-project/resources

EnJoy !

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by drizzo_613

I was under impression that most of Trillium is being double tracked in addition to adding stations which is why they shut down to line. Confed line wouldn't have that problem down the road unless they choose to realign tracks for any new stations.

Good Day.

Not really.
The passing tracks on the original Bayview to Greenboro section are being expanded, along with adding the new Gladstone station.
The Bayview doubling is not really doubling, since the eastern side platform is not going to be in use to the public - it is to be reserved for utility and emergency useage only, for the foreseeable future.
And the full double-tracking is really only going in at SouthKeys station, and south of the NCC freight track spur on the new Limebank run.

Originally Posted by Nowhere

Would it be possible to eventually add new stations at Jasmine, Centrum and Tenth Line without a lengthy shutdown like we're doing with the Trillium Line ?

As for the eastern C-Line expansion, unless they spread the tracks and/or the 174 at the proposed locations to provide room for a platform insertion (ie: just run them straight), then a shutdown for re-alignment will be required <<!OUCH!>>.

EnJoy !

[J.OT13]

Jim Watson
@JimWatsonOttawa

The first half of Stage 2 #LRTOtt rail has arrived from Spain! A total of 6,800 metric tons of steel will be used as part of the O-Train East Extension, connecting more residents to rail #Stage2LRT



11:28 AM · Feb 4, 2021·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/JimWatsonOttawa/status/1357365379044147200

I wonder if this is part of the reason why the Stage 2 FEDCO presentation has been delayed twice. They want to get a few milestones into the presentation.

[Kitchissippi]

I would have thought that steel rails are one of those products that Canada still produces cheaper than having them shipped from Europe.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I would have thought that steel rails are one of those products that Canada still produces cheaper than having them shipped from Europe.

That to me has always been puzzling. Not just for possible cost difference, but environmental impact. I'm not against the "Canada First"/"America First" type mentalities in the right circumstances (don't abandon your allies, but prop up your own economy before others). And this is one of them.

End of the day, it was the contractor's decision, not the City's.

[MalcolmTucker]

What kind of rail profile are they using? It might not be the simplest thing to retool a line to produce a specialized product.

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

What kind of rail profile are they using? It might not be the simplest thing to retool a line to produce a specialized product.

They're using regular transport rail also known as (flat bottom rail) commonly used in many systems around the world.
Usualy the two variables are the ''web'' and the ''head''. They can vary depending on load, trains and weather condition. Ususaly bigger web and head are used on lines like freight lines where locomotives and wagon are massive.


Grooved rails are use on street-car/tramway lines in order to inbed the track in the road or pavement or in grass. They're also used on Railroad crossings.

PS: let's not forget that one of the two contractors is European (Vinci/Eurovia) so if the city didn't put any clause on the contract to require the rails to be built in Canada or even the US it's probable Vinci used one of their regular supplier to provide the rails.

[TheMatth69]

According to Wikipedia the number of rail manufacturers are pretty limited. And to my big surprise there is none left in Canada.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

According to Wikipedia the number of rail manufacturers are pretty limited. And to my big surprise there is none left in Canada.

Why!? What is it with Canada and depending on other countries to supply basic things like rails? Or essential things like vaccines? Sooo frustrating.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Why!? What is it with Canada and depending on other countries to supply basic things like rails? Or essential things like vaccines? Sooo frustrating.

Free trade agreements have a lot to do with it. It's why manufacturing on a whole is leaving Canada.

[CityTech]

Because in the age of global trade, industries congregate wherever they are most efficient. Each country becomes a specialist rather than a jack of all trades, essentially. In normal times, we all benefit. Sort of like how if I'm a good programmer, and my friend is a good plumber, it makes more sense for me to design his website for him in exchange for him installing my new shower, than it does to have us each do it on our own.

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Why!? What is it with Canada and depending on other countries to supply basic things like rails? Or essential things like vaccines? Sooo frustrating.

A lot as to with the fact that Canada's inner market isn't big enough to justify some of these facilities and compagny tend to rationalise their assets espacially in the last decade.
You would think however that with the huge steel and mining industry in Canada, we could at least have one facility left. But maybe it's more profitable for compagnies to buy their steel and other types of Ore in Canada and import it to their abroad facilities.

[J.OT13]

As we've seen over the last year, free trade is great until a pandemic hits and protectionism rears its ugly head. Southern Ontario is suffering due to the loss of thousands of jobs. Alberta is suffering due to its dependence on industry. Many other parts of the country are suffering for the sake of "free trade". It's time we start bringing back manufacturing to Canada, not only to guarantee supply and bring back jobs, but for the environment.

In terms of steel rails, we have six cities who are near continuously building new rapid transit lines, several that are planning new projects or expansion and the HFR likely to happen at some point. I think Canada has enough demand for steel rails.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

As we've seen over the last year, free trade is great until a pandemic hits and protectionism rears its ugly head. Southern Ontario is suffering due to the loss of thousands of jobs. Alberta is suffering due to its dependence on industry. Many other parts of the country are suffering for the sake of "free trade". It's time we start bringing back manufacturing to Canada, not only to guarantee supply and bring back jobs, but for the environment.

In terms of steel rails, we have six cities who are near continuously building new rapid transit lines, several that are planning new projects or expansion and the HFR likely to happen at some point. I think Canada has enough demand for steel rails.

How long does it take to make 1km of rail? In a year, how many km of rail would need to be made? How much is needed just in Canada?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

but for the environment.

You'd be surprised how little transport costs in the end, in $ and GHG. I remember an old study on the UK importing tomatoes from Spain versus growing them locally in greenhouses. Spanish tomatoes had a lower environmental footprint.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

A lot as to with the fact that Canada's inner market isn't big enough to justify some of these facilities and companies tend to rationalize their assets especially in the last decade.
You would think however that with the huge steel and mining industry in Canada, we could at least have one facility left. But maybe it's more profitable for companies to buy their steel and other types of Ore in Canada and import it to their abroad facilities.

Good Day.

We used to be big enough, with rail part-and-parcel of an overall steel industry.
But, recall the big 'meltdown' in 2010 after the financial crunch, and the <departure> of US Steel - which had bought up virtually all of the Canadian manufacturing capability,
which was approved by Competition Bureau (M&A) with certain manufacturing capacity and employment guarantees - which US Steel simply walked away from, and was never brought to account for.

Plus, recognize that the mainlines (CN, CP, etc) now depend to a fairly large extent on rail recovery from discontinued and delisted lines and subs. This results in less demand for new product from these major consumers.

So, I would and do rather prefer the greater dependability of acquiring rail from the contractor's dependable suppliers, rather than from good ol' undependable USA - NAFTA-2 notwithstanding.

As well, I am ready to bet it falls under CETA somewhere in the works.

Some links to background and history :

https://www.thespec.com/business/2014/07/31/us-steel-s-history-in-hamilton.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelco

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/...-canada-changing-its-name-back-1.3876802

https://investinhamilton.ca/blog/2019/09...ng-facility-opens-at-stelco-in-hamilton/

From these, it appears we do retain some capacity at this point, but only in back-end final-product processing, and not in the full ore-to-product capability (which makes Trump's section 232 claims against us appear rather ludicrous !! duh !!) .

And, yes, we still mine a LOT of ore, and it mostly gets all shipped out all around the world, along with thermic coking coal from BC & Alberta (about which you heard debate in Alberta recently involving Kenney)

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/02...coal-mining-united-albertans-against-him

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alta-coal-kenney-1.5899366

EnJoy!