Cobalt Luxury Residences On King | 97.5 & 97.5m | 2 x 30 fl | Complete

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

What that lot needs is a midrise with a rounded corner and stepped back enough from the street so that you can still see the Lister Block looking down James, and have plenty of room for dining tables. Core Urban really needs to get their hands on this lot, they're perhaps the only group who can't screw this up.

Something like this could be nice, done properly, with set backs above and a cut off corner.



One thing I liked about this building is that it also had really small commercial units that were the perfect size for a cafe or small local shop. Which was nice because sure enough there was a cozy coffee shop in this brand new building. Many new buildings have enormous units that are difficult to fill by anyone other than some corporate franchise store.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

How cool would it be if they rebuilt the Zellers façade, with some modern extra floors on top, like the William Thomas, or the King James building next door?



Like this, but wider, of course. Grafton's is gone and King Willy was just a side street back then so there's just a blank wall once you turn the corner. The corner spot could be a full-sized restaurant, with small units behind it like you said. It's unlikely to happen, but I can dream

What I hope for the most is they keep the historical feel of the street. A glass box just wouldn't blend. Hell, I'd settle for something quasi-historical like the Templar Flats

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^The lesson, of course, is that we shouldn't knock these beauties down in the first place, then we wouldn't have to recreate them. The owner, who's name escapes me (one of the capo di tutti capis of suburban home building - Don Spallacci maybe?), has been playing a gross speculative game for decades and still we wait.

After Cobalt gets built people will make similar comments about Kresge's. Renewed to its 1930s glory, with a tower rising out of the rear portion of the property - people's jaws would drop.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

^The lesson, of course, is that we shouldn't knock these beauties down in the first place, then we wouldn't have to recreate them. The owner, who's name escapes me (one of the capo di tutti capis of suburban home building - Don Spallacci maybe?), has been playing a gross speculative game for decades and still we wait.

After Cobalt gets built people will make similar comments about Kresge's. Renewed to its 1930s glory, with a tower rising out of the rear portion of the property - people's jaws would drop.

Didn't they change the design for the podium though? The advert on the hoarding isn't Kresge's though I would certainly prefer it

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

Didn't they change the design for the podium though? The advert on the hoarding isn't Kresge's though I would certainly prefer it

Yeah they changed the design to something.. less worthy let's just say.

And yeah i'd love to see something like the zellars building rebuild - and a taller stepped up design going further in - to capitulate on that space so the top of it by the end would be as high as the building next to it.

or at least something to cover up the rest of that god awful wall - I wouldn't even mind if they rebuilt the building next door as well, just put it back the way it was. It worked well for what it was.

[TheRitsman]

Kind of make you imagine how God awful the sky train running down King William would have looked though

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by lachlanholmes

Agree with you on this assessment...

The design firm in question seems largely incapable of attractive conceptual design let alone attractive completed buildings, so I'm not particularly looking forward to this development or the development at James and Jackson from a design/architecture point of view.

Here's a selection of G+C's work, for anyone interested...

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It will be fun to watch them rise, and nice to get another couple hundred people living in the core, but I really doubt that they're going to be that nice to look at when done.

I mean, are these really that bad? Much better than some recent projects that have gone up in this city. A modern look that won't look aged in 10 years, floor to ceiling windows, decent amenities, good size for the downtown core. I'm not complaining.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I mean, are these really that bad? Much better than some recent projects that have gone up in this city. A modern look that won't look aged in 10 years, floor to ceiling windows, decent amenities, good size for the downtown core. I'm not complaining.

That's a very fair point. Compared to King and Queen sTuBbEs CoNcReTe garbage mess it may look amazing. But that's a low bar lmao

[mishap]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

How cool would it be if they rebuilt the Zellers façade...

I would like to see them attempt something different. Immediately across James St is a "lookout" that was likely planned as a connector for a +15 network. They could create a parkette on the old Zellers site and connect it to the Jackson Square rooftop with a bridge over James St. Make sure the walkway is an incline from King William St, not stairs. Stairs don't give the same sense of flow as a rising walkway. They kind of make people wonder if they're supposed to go up there in the first place. Do something similar at the west end of the mall, possibly connecting to Vine St at Bay.
Above the mall, they can create a pedestrian "street" with small shops and kiosks, some areas to sit and eat, and other amenities. Almost an extension of King William. Maybe this corridor can be extended along Vine, or maybe it goes towards George St to tie into Hess Village. This would require several different players to work together, but maybe the economic potential from the expected growth downtown would make the various parties willing to cooperate.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

How cool would it be if they rebuilt the Zellers façade, with some modern extra floors on top, like the William Thomas, or the King James building next door?

That looks like it must of been the smallest Zellers ever! Agree with your comment, would be really nice to see.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by mishap

I would like to see them attempt something different. Immediately across James St is a "lookout" that was likely planned as a connector for a +15 network. They could create a parkette on the old Zellers site and connect it to the Jackson Square rooftop with a bridge over James St. Make sure the walkway is an incline from King William St, not stairs. Stairs don't give the same sense of flow as a rising walkway. They kind of make people wonder if they're supposed to go up there in the first place. Do something similar at the west end of the mall, possibly connecting to Vine St at Bay.
Above the mall, they can create a pedestrian "street" with small shops and kiosks, some areas to sit and eat, and other amenities. Almost an extension of King William. Maybe this corridor can be extended along Vine, or maybe it goes towards George St to tie into Hess Village. This would require several different players to work together, but maybe the economic potential from the expected growth downtown would make the various parties willing to cooperate.

It just seems like the Jackson Square owners don't give a shit. They could easily do a Christmas market, skating rink, extend the farmers market. All kinds of things, but the issue with private space is it requires private effort. The city can't force Jackson Square to do things on its roof.

[Markus83]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

Taken today

Nice shot johnnyhamont!

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I mean, are these really that bad? Much better than some recent projects that have gone up in this city. A modern look that won't look aged in 10 years, floor to ceiling windows, decent amenities, good size for the downtown core. I'm not complaining.

They are compared to what COULD be built - there is a time and place for everything - curtain wall that extends all the way to the storefront is fine tucked away - but in the downtown, with lots of historic buildings, imo, something classier needs to go up (with brick and stone for the first 3-6 floors incorporated at least imo to tie it in with everything around it)

Otherwise it looks like that modern building that sticks out like a sore thumb, and contrary to popular opinion, curtain wall designs DO age and look dated, look at the one on james st n they converted recently that was just used for storage - the curtain panels looked AWFUL.

The only pure modern one that hasn't aged too badly has been the bank building on king and james, and I think that's due to the highly reflective panels and the uniform look to it.

King william st imo is doing a great job - all the new additions - even the modern ones have had stone for the first 3-6 floors to tie in with the surroundings and modern plopped on top. Looks great from far away, and not boring from close up. Smart design. It just saddens me that there is no more craftsmanship innovation other than "what angles can we make in this building" unless the surrounding historical architecture forces them to innovate to match, like the lister block annex. Without the style of the lister that building woulda most likely just been a boring glass cube.

I miss the curves and details of the older stuff - actual attempts to make it look pretty and not just "functional". Hell even residential is prettier. If I was on the board for approval I would make it a requirement that each new build has to provide some sort of feature that renders it attractive from street view and ties in with the things around it.

The zellers building may not have been the pinnacle of architecture but if you look t it, they still tried.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

They are compared to what COULD be built - there is a time and place for everything - curtain wall that extends all the way to the storefront is fine tucked away - but in the downtown, with lots of historic buildings, imo, something classier needs to go up (with brick and stone for the first 3-6 floors incorporated at least imo to tie it in with everything around it)

Otherwise it looks like that modern building that sticks out like a sore thumb, and contrary to popular opinion, curtain wall designs DO age and look dated, look at the one on james st n they converted recently that was just used for storage - the curtain panels looked AWFUL.

The only pure modern one that hasn't aged too badly has been the bank building on king and james, and I think that's due to the highly reflective panels and the uniform look to it.

King william st imo is doing a great job - all the new additions - even the modern ones have had stone for the first 3-6 floors to tie in with the surroundings and modern plopped on top. Looks great from far away, and not boring from close up. Smart design. It just saddens me that there is no more craftsmanship innovation other than "what angles can we make in this building" unless the surrounding historical architecture forces them to innovate to match, like the lister block annex. Without the style of the lister that building woulda most likely just been a boring glass cube.

I miss the curves and details of the older stuff - actual attempts to make it look pretty and not just "functional". Hell even residential is prettier. If I was on the board for approval I would make it a requirement that each new build has to provide some sort of feature that renders it attractive from street view and ties in with the things around it.

The zellers building may not have been the pinnacle of architecture but if you look t it, they still tried.

oh i'm certainly not suggesting modern condo buildings have superior architectural features compared to buildings from the 19th and 20th century. I hope you don't think that.

I'm just saying this particularly building, from the renders at least, looks to be of a higher quality than some of the other developments that have recently gone up.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

oh i'm certainly not suggesting modern condo buildings have superior architectural features compared to buildings from the 19th and 20th century. I hope you don't think that.

I'm just saying this particularly building, from the renders at least, looks to be of a higher quality than some of the other developments that have recently gone up.

I am VERY glad you clarified that, as that is what it sounds like, and that is another discussion entirely.

Also one shouldn't compare a sub par quality as being better because worse things have gone up beforehand. It sets a bad precedent. I'd rather compare it to the best and see how it stands up.

William thomas building (and yes yes i get it, without the need to HAVE to keep the historical facade this probably woulda been boring and generic too, but sue me), pigott building, sun life building, federal court building (one of the most beautiful examples imo of a fusion of ld and new)

and I get it - these people are the wal-marts of the building world - big, glassy, cheap (relatively speaking of course) - actual details cost money and skilled people, and its not like dynasty families are building luxury buildings anymore (look at the giant mistake of acclamation - even family inspired buildings these days don't even add up)

as a society many here want height - and that looks great from far away, but in the process they are sacrificing soul., which looks good from close up - who cares what it looks like from far away - that's for others to judge - all that matters is what looks good and functions well for those who actually live in the city.

As for this one - the condo tower part is meh - hell each render shows a different generic geometric pattern - that part is never really the interesting part - only so much you can do with a rectangular design and balconies - no for me what makes these stand out is their podium - and from the renders - the podium falls very much short of expectation -esp. considering there is the right house on the left, and the newly restored historical building on the right. The generic ellen faircloudesque render they got for the current podium design just stinks of unoriginality. In fact it was SO bad that many users here, myself included actually tried to photoshop it to LOOK better, and that's never a good sign.

Here are some renders for what they have proposed:





YAWN.



The ones on the back I didn't feel were TOO bad - but still, it's a mishmash - the whole thing is just an awkward mishmash.. and why does the back look better than the front..?

Also whose bright idea was it to put a WHITE facade on the side of the street which already had proven instances of rampant graffiti back when it was the old building with the pale brick?

[Innsertnamehere]

Trust me, for G+C, take it. It's possibly the single most competent design they have ever done.

If you want to see a more typical example of their ground floor designs, look no further than Y+C..

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6620...7i16384!8i8192

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Trust me, for G+C, take it. It's possibly the single most competent design they have ever done.

If you want to see a more typical example of their ground floor designs, look no further than Y+C..

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6620...7i16384!8i8192

*recoils*

dear god.

I wish liuna or core urban had teamed up with G+C.. have them do the podium and the others do the skyscraper parts..

I still think when it comes to core quality should > all else- it's the core for gods sake. But I get the city doesn't have the luxury where it can pick and choose yet - it's still trying to pull itself out of its 90s inspired stagnation slump.

At least I have the gorgeously restored facade beside it to look at.. ahhh.. such good quality

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

When you say "Calibre" what do you mean? I think they and the Platinum and the Marquee will transformc owntown because there will be thousands of new middle class people spending time around downtown. But the Cobalt is being done by a architect and developer that is know for meh work. KiWi is yet to be discussed what the quality will be, but we may have to wait and see what it looks like when done.

Quality and aesthetics aside, Kiwi and Cobalt will have a huge impact on downtown and the local market for services and retail. The north-east quadrant of the core will benefit immensely from them.

With the other proposals in that area things will be very different in the 2020s.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Quality and aesthetics aside, Kiwi and Cobalt will have a huge impact on downtown and the local market for services and retail. The north-east quadrant of the core will benefit immensely from them.

With the other proposals in that area things will be very different in the 2020s.

I bet the movie theatre in jackson will get a lot more useage with that many more people downtown

I am curious as to what other "entertainment" things this city can build in the core for a much bigger demographic of people to enjoy. They have a huge opportunity with redeveloping the eatons center to provide a center for that kinda stuff. It would be nice to see some new legit clubs open as well. A playdium downtown would be cool as well. Make it sorta like square one area.

King william will definitely benefit immensely from this - it's gonna become the "rich" corridor restaurant wise - fine dining all the way! Fitting for a street named after King William IV

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Quality and aesthetics aside, Kiwi and Cobalt will have a huge impact on downtown and the local market for services and retail. The north-east quadrant of the core will benefit immensely from them.

With the other proposals in that area things will be very different in the 2020s.

This is more what I was trying to get at. They are decent buildings that will likely attract further development, and other businesses in the area.