24 Sussex Drive [Prime Minister's residence] | Vacant

[OTSkyline]

Not another museum, that would be the worst idea.

I agree that I don't think the residence (with its many updates and renos) is really all that worth preserving. It's not THAT grand of a residence and doesn't hold that much heritage value in my opinion. Especially if the cost of repairing is $34M.

I would be tempted to say bulldoze and build new but $38M for new construction? That seems a bit steep, no? I would have thought they could have built something great for half that price! Or why not buy a $5M-$10M mansion in the area (Rockliffe) and then just spend another $5M-$10M to secure it?

[Vixx]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Not another museum, that would be the worst idea.

I agree that I don't think the residence (with its many updates and renos) is really all that worth preserving. It's not THAT grand of a residence and doesn't hold that much heritage value in my opinion. Especially if the cost of repairing is $34M.

I would be tempted to say bulldoze and build new but $38M for new construction? That seems a bit steep, no? I would have thought they could have built something great for half that price! Or why not buy a $5M-$10M mansion in the area (Rockliffe) and then just spend another $5M-$10M to secure it?

This is pretty much my line of thinking. Just bulldoze the place but find a way to bring the cost down for a new build. Or, just sell off the land. I'm sure there would not be a shortage of potential buyers who would like to build on the lot.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I would be tempted to say bulldoze and build new but $38M for new construction? That seems a bit steep, no? I would have thought they could have built something great for half that price!

I think it is because they are fixed on the idea that it needs to be made of stone:

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Mortar holding the limestone blocks is in poor condition and in some cases is missing completely. An engineering report says the limestone blocks are poor-quality stone prone to cracking, and the stones themselves are crumbling as water gets in and repeatedly freezes and thaws.

“To rebuild the structure using a different stone from a different quarry — that is both very expensive and it’s not actually very authentic from a point of view of heritage conservation,” Jeanes said.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I think it is because they are fixed on the idea that it needs to be made of stone:

Lets just clear some things up:

1. The stone is majority not salvageable. Once it's unloaded during 'renovations' it'll be garbage.

2. You can source stone from Ottawa region, however nobody in their right minds would ever use it again for building. There are quarries just outside of Montreal with great building stone, just slightly darker in tone when it's 'fresh' (SHOCK! OMG, not darker! I'll be ruined!! Sarcasm..)

3. The walls are failing, therefore during the 'takedown and rebuild' portion of the project, the majority of the stone will be taken down to grade (or below to the footings) therefore what's left?

4. The interior finishes are removed completely as well.

5. So what's left? The roof truss is likely under-designed (roof is shot too), some interior stud walls, and I guess a ton of shoring to hold it up while the exterior walls are removed. Oh and windows and doors are obviously gone as well, although the NCC loves conserving energy-hog wooden windows with single-pane glass.

So picture this (although it'll be behind tarps): A bunch of shoring, some stud walls, and sorry looking a-frame roof members. That's what you're 'conserving' as the heritage. New stone, new windows (with 'conserved' window casings, new interior finishes, new roofing, 'conserved' soffits and fascia. Not a whole lot left, is there? It's basically the same conundrum as Somerset House.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I think it is because they are fixed on the idea that it needs to be made of stone:

Stone is an NCC requirement for Sussex Dr, no?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Stone is an NCC requirement for Sussex Dr, no?

Maybe. Just explaining why new construction would cost $38M. "Imported" new stone isn't cheap, and as OTownandDown explained, we can't re-use the exiting stone or use locally sourced stone.

[HighwayStar]

Well, it's been 2.1 years since anyone posted in this thread... during a conversation the other day, the question came up, and got me wondering, what (if anything) will happen to this property?

I do understand the (perceived or imagined) political optics of actually doing something on this site... but after 5 years is the NCC just planning on letting the building collapse and the grounds go fallow?

What happens when the cottage at Rideau Hall falls into the same state of disrepair? Will the PM at the time be forced to find another old, decrepit place to live?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well, it's been 2.1 years since anyone posted in this thread... during a conversation the other day, the question came up, and got me wondering, what (if anything) will happen to this property?

I do understand the (perceived or imagined) political optics of actually doing something on this site... but after 5 years is the NCC just planning on letting the building collapse and the grounds go fallow?

What happens when the cottage at Rideau Hall falls into the same state of disrepair? Will the PM at the time be forced to find another old, decrepit place to live?

Rideau Cottage was renovated a few years ago, so it won’t fall down for a few years.

There needs to be an all-party discussion of what the house is for. If it is just a private residence for the PM’s family (which is how JC, PM, and SH used it) then Rideau Cottage is probably fine on a more or less permanent basis. If it is to have an official function (as it did in the 60s) or take on additional functions (i.e. office space) then all parties need to agree to that or we’re just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 money away.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There needs to be an all-party discussion of what the house is for. If it is just a private residence for the PM’s family (which is how JC, PM, and SH used it) then Rideau Cottage is probably fine on a more or less permanent basis. If it is to have an official function (as it did in the 60s) or take on additional functions (i.e. office space) then all parties need to agree to that or we’re just 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 money away.

Well, I guess that's kind of my point... There have been 5+ years to have whatever discussions are necessary to move this forward.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere it costs between $100,000-$200,000/year just to keep the lights operable and the grass cut. We're now looking at close to $1M down the sewer for absolutely nothing.

Who is supposed to be driving the necessary "discussions"? Is the NCC the master overlord here?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well, I guess that's kind of my point... There have been 5+ years to have whatever discussions are necessary to move this forward.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere it costs between $100,000-$200,000/year just to keep the lights operable and the grass cut. We're now looking at close to $1M down the sewer for absolutely nothing.

Who is supposed to be driving the necessary "discussions"? Is the NCC the master overlord here?

The NCC is theoretically responsible, but it is clearly a political decision. Renovation or replacement costs are in the 40M range, so the maintenance costs are probably not a huge sink.

[DarkArconio]

1-200k/year to allow Sussex to not collapse like we figure out what we want to do with it as a nation is a *tiny* cost. What is the size of the federal budget? Happy to let this is be so politicians aren't forced to spend political capital on it. I'm sure we'll get it fixed sooner or later. Better sooner, but we have bigger problems.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by DarkArconio

1-200k/year to allow Sussex to not collapse like we figure out what we want to do with it as a nation is a *tiny* cost. What is the size of the federal budget? Happy to let this is be so politicians aren't forced to spend political capital on it. I'm sure we'll get it fixed sooner or later. Better sooner, but we have bigger problems.

Wow.... what twisted logic. I'm sure one could come up with a zillion *tiny* expenditures that the government just lets fly because they are 0.0001% of the national budget, and there are "bigger" problems to deal with.

I'm just dismayed at this example of absolute government disfunction... this is highly visible, so how much other nonsense of this type is going on under the radar.

And regarding "political capital"... I know zealous anti-JT Albertans who wouldn't raise a peep if JT went on stage tomorrow and said, "24 Sussex will be renovated or rebuilt".... and I highly suspect they are not alone.

I have absolutely no skin in the game... but if the various administrations (bureaucracies) responsible for getting this done can't figure out how... maybe we need to take a hard look at streamlining how our overall system functions.... but we'd have to hire consultants and setup a new government department for that

[acottawa]

This has nothing to do with dysfunctional bureaucracy. This is a purely political issue. Trudeau wants neither “Trudeau Spends $40M to Fix His House” nor “Trudeau Tears Down Heritage Building to Make Way for New Mansion” as headlines.

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There needs to be an all-party discussion of what the house is for.

That's the key but we know the Bloc will resist at any cost.
The decision about what to do needs to be non-political bi-partisan group or council

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by acottawa

This has nothing to do with dysfunctional bureaucracy. This is a purely political issue. Trudeau wants neither “Trudeau Spends $40M to Fix His House” nor “Trudeau Tears Down Heritage Building to Make Way for New Mansion” as headlines.

The bureaucracy should then (somehow) take the politics out of it. I get the optics.. but they are just that.. optics. If Canadians are that gullible, then maybe the headlines should address that. The fact that Politics are in this decision demonstrates the dysfunction.

If Trudeau want's to do the right thing... then he should sign-off on the project in the last days of his term, handcuffing the incoming administration to reverse the decision. Will he do that?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

The bureaucracy should then (somehow) take the politics out of it. I get the optics.. but they are just that.. optics. If Canadians are that gullible, then maybe the headlines should address that. The fact that Politics are in this decision demonstrates the dysfunction.

If Trudeau want's to do the right thing... then he should sign-off on the project in the last days of his term, handcuffing the incoming administration to reverse the decision. Will he do that?

The bureaucracy can’t take the politics out of it. The bureaucracy is subordinate to elected officials.

The last day of his term is either just before resigns or just after he loses an election. In neither case is he in a position to make a major spending commitment (and has no incentive to either).

And it isn’t just optics. It is not in any way clear the PM needs a $40M house. It is not used for state functions, it has rarely been used for official functions, it is not open to the public, it does not house any offices. It is really just a private residence.

[J.OT13]

I'm not sure it's a political thing at this point. Trudeau washed his hands of it by not moving in when he became PM. If a reno or replacement plan was approved tomorrow, Trudeau would likely never enjoy it himself as it would likely take 5-10 years to complete.

The problem might be too many cooks in the kitchen. The NCC, RCMP, PSPC...

[silvergate]

Clearly, what we need is a 27-storey condo with enough identical suites that all out-of-town MPs can have one.

This is only partly tongue in cheek maybe they should just do that...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm not sure it's a political thing at this point. Trudeau washed his hands of it by not moving in when he became PM. If a reno or replacement plan was approved tomorrow, Trudeau would likely never enjoy it himself as it would likely take 5-10 years to complete.

The problem might be too many cooks in the kitchen. The NCC, RCMP, PSPC...

I think the number of cooks would be an explanation if a decision was made and the implementation was slow. A complete lack of a decision is political.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Clearly, what we need is a 27-storey condo with enough identical suites that all out-of-town MPs can have one.

This is only partly tongue in cheek maybe they should just do that...

There is a certain logic to that. Buy one of the closing hotels or something.