What is the least "WASP" city in the United States?

[Docere]

These old colonial mixtures would still be British Isles origins though, so it makes sense to classify them in the British-American group.

[Docere]

"White ethnics" is rarely explicitly defined, but generally means Catholics and people of southern and eastern European ancestry in big cities.

German isn't included generally, even though there are pockets where some residue of German Ameerican culture, there's no "German" politicians, "German lobby" etc.

Irish were sort of "semi-ethnic" - ethnic more in a political sense than a cultural sense. They were the English-speaking "American Catholics" who dominated urban politics and the church when the SEC Europeans arrived, but culturally were more similar to the WASPs, in a sense.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

German isn't included generally, even though there are pockets where some residue of German Ameerican culture, there's no "German" politicians, "German lobby" etc.

there certainly was a much heavier "german" cultural presence in the US back in the day, but the 2 world wars utterly decimated "german" identity and culture in america.

my own german-american great-grand father told me how he, and every other german in chicago, started massively downplaying their german ethnicity when the US entered WWI.

en masse they took on a fully "american" identity out of fear of being confused for enemies/traitors. and being white, they could easily do so, unlike what happened to japanese-americans during WWII.

throw in an adolph hitler, an unspeakable genocide, and WWII, and all things "german" were just fucking over in the US. no one wanted to be associated with that universe of bullshit (except actual neo-nazi fucks, obviously).


also, as i pointed out earlier in the thread, a lot of german immigration to the US was of the catholic persuasion (my entire maternal heredity line in chicago: all southern german and french catholics), so it gets awfully messy when you say things like "white ethnic" applied to catholics, but not germans. in many cases, they were the same thing.

[Docere]

New York had a big German population a century ago as well and their numbers were similar to the Irish. But German ethnicity has long been pretty much invisible there given the association with Nazism.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

New York had a big German population a century ago as well and their numbers were similar to the Irish. But German ethnicity has long been pretty much invisible there given the association with Nazism.

There are German remnants, in Ridgewood, Glendale and Middle Village, Queens. Still a few delis, groceries and restaurants on Mrytle Ave. and Fresh Pond Rd. Those corridors were very German until the 1980's or so. It also probably helps that the same area has Poles, Bosnians, and other ethnicities that probably use the existing German services.

In the last few years, separate German K-12 private schools have been established in Manhattan and Brownstone Brooklyn, but they're obviously more for the professional expat crowd. There are also new private German pre-Ks, in Tribeca and Brooklyn. There has, for decades, been a German Intl. School in Westchester, also expat-oriented.

[Docere]

A Canadian view, but I think it's also true to say there wasn't a dominant German group in the US the way you had say, Irish Catholics in the Famine years or Jews from Eastern Europe fleeing pogroms in the late 19th and early 20th century that really established these communities. There were urban/rural differences, religious differences, timing of immigration etc.

https://sites.ualberta.ca/~german/AlbertaHistory/DefiningGerman.htm

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Docere

A Canadian view, but I think it's also true to say there wasn't a dominant German group in the US the way you had say, Irish Catholics in the Famine years or Jews from Eastern Europe fleeing pogroms in the late 19th and early 20th century that really established these communities. There were urban/rural differences, religious differences, timing of immigration etc.

https://sites.ualberta.ca/~german/AlbertaHistory/DefiningGerman.htm

yes, the religious splintering of the germans between their catholic, lutheran, and other protestant factions did minimize their overall cultural impact, which was different than say the irish*, or the italians, or the poles who were monothically catholic.

(*) the potato famine irish who came to define "irish-americanism" in the latter half of the 19th century, not the earlier scots-irish group.

still, the two biggest reasons why there isn't more of german cultural presence in the US today are the two world wars.

Melvin G. Holli states, regarding Chicago, that "After the Great War it became clear that no ethnic group was so de-ethnicized in its public expression by a single historic event as German Americans. While Polish Americans, Lithuanian Americans, and other subject nationalities underwent a great consciousness raising, German ethnicity fell into a protracted and permanent slump. The war damaged public expression of German ethnic, linguistic, and cultural institutions almost beyond repair". He states that, after the war, German ethnicity "would never regain its prewar public acclaim, its larger-than-life public presence, with its symbols, rituals, and, above all, its large numbers of people who took pride in their Teutonic ancestry and enjoyed the role of Uncle Sam's favored adopted son".......

"No other North American ethnic group, past or present, has attempted so forcefully to officially conceal their ethnic origins. One must attribute this reaction to the wave of repression that swept the Continent and enveloped anyone with a German past""

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans


it may sound kind of weird, but i named my son "Otto" not only because i love the name (and palindromes are always cool), but it was also an attempt to take back at least a tiny little sliver of my family's german heritage; to make it front and center again and not run away and hide from it.

sure, the other half of me is primarily irish american, but america certainly doesn't need any more seans or colins or connors or liams

also, i didn't get my mom's awesome german surname, i got my dad's irish one, so......

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yes, the religious splintering of the germans between their catholic, lutheran, and other protestant factions did minimize their overall cultural impact, which was different than say the irish*, or the italians, or the poles who were monothically catholic.

(*) the potato famine irish who came to define "irish-americanism" in the latter half of the 19th century, not the earlier scots-irish group.

still, the two biggest reasons why there isn't more of german cultural presence in the US today are the two world wars.


source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans


it may sound kind of weird, but i named my son "Otto" not only because i love the name (and palindromes are always cool), but it was also an attempt to take back at least a tiny little sliver of my family's german heritage; to make it front and center again and not run away and hide from it.

sure, the other half of me is primarily irish american, but america certainly doesn't need any more seans or colins or connors or liams

also, i didn't get my mom's awesome german surname, i got my dad's irish one, so......

Otto was my maternal grandfathers middle name for the same reason. 👍

[Docere]

Atlanta

British/American 17.9%
German 4.8%
Irish 4.8%

Houston

British/American 9.7%
German 6%
Irish 3.5%

Nashville

British/American 24.2%
German 7.6%
Irish 6.6%

[Docere]

British/American First Ancestry

Nashville 24.2%*
Atlanta 17.9%*
Cincinnati 17%
St. Louis 14%
Seattle 13.2%*
Boston 11.9%
Pittsburgh 11.8%
Baltimore 11.4%
Detroit 11.4%
Washington 11.1%*
Cleveland 10.3%
Providence 10%
Houston 9.7%*
Miami 7.7%
Minneapolis-St. Paul 7.1%
Los Angeles 6.3%*
New York 6.3%
Chicago 6%
Milwaukee 5.3%

* plurality of NHWs are of British ancestry

[dimondpark]

I'm fairly certain that Salt Lake City is a contender because 27% of the population is American/British/English according to the Census Bureau and secondly, Mormons are NOT Protestants.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

and secondly, Mormons are NOT Protestants.

I believe the common working definition of Protestant would be any Christian who isn't Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. Those Christians whose beliefs didn't originate from Rome or Constantinople. So if we assume Mormons are Christian, they would be Protestant by this definition.

[westak]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I believe the common working definition of Protestant would be any Christian who isn't Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. Those Christians whose beliefs didn't originate from Rome or Constantinople. So if we assume Mormons are Christian, they would be Protestant by this definition.

They aren't considered Christians by the majority of Christian denominations.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by westak

They aren't considered Christians by the majority of Christian denominations.

I don’t know about that...

According to Pew during the 2012 campaign, a majority of Americans believe Mormons are Christians and only 31% do not. 17% are not sure.

https://www.pewresearch.org/2007/12/04/public-opinion-about-mormons/

I don’t consider Mormons to be Protestant, however, as the denomination was NOT a product of the reformation, but they are Christian.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I don’t consider Mormons to be Protestant, however, as the denomination was NOT a product of the reformation, but they are Christian.

I don't think that's the common definition of Protestantism, though. Mainline Protestantism, in the American context, perhaps. Methodists, Episcopalians, Presybeterians.

More fringe forms of Christianity, like Mormonism, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, are typically considered Christian, but with no relationship to Catholics or Eastern Orthodox. At the least, they self-identify as Christian, I think.

[Quixote]

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[llamaorama]

I tend to agree more with the "WASP as a culture" thing. I wouldn't know but it just seems so unlikely that in 2020 you'd find some elites in Greenwich with last names like "Cornwallis Moneybags the III" not inviting people to the yacht club because they have a big nose and dark hair.

Instead WASP to me as a Texan kind of means = affluent East Coast where private schools and liberal arts colleges have some relevance and there are certain things you would need to do to fit in their social circle regardless of what kind of money you had. I mean the Kennedy's were by definition not WASP at all but they are sort of emblematic of it. Like, did you go to a private college in New England? Do you read The Atlantic? Do your kids play Lacrosse? Do you own a turtleneck? Can you find Bar Harbor on a map? Then you may possibly be a WASP. Ironically I think a lot of upper-middle professional class Asian-Americans could be "WASP" now, despite being none of the things in the acronym except sometimes the last letter.

[Docere]

Probably less used in the South because there was never an ethnic distinction between affluent and working class whites, or really any display of white ethnicity.

[dubu]

its easier to find the non religious cities. if this is what wasp means. like my city is a good example of not being old and having a lot of churches. i used to live in oregon city, a 200 year old city and it had a lot of churches. church out in the country is way different, my grandpa helped build a church out in the mountains where he lived. its just a place people get together. in the city churches are not for everyone, they are fancy and big.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JManc

I would say any white person who is not a Catholic at this point. Most whites are no longer 100% of anything and are pretty mixed.

https://you.23andme.com/reports/ancestry_composition_hd/

Not 100% but, as we used to say (when I worked for the government), "close enough for government work."