Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C

[WarrenC12]

Ya I'd love more entrance/exit points and faregates too, but the access points can still handle more volume than the trains by far, so...

[scottN]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's room for a small building at the back. 3-4 floors' worth of cafes and bars?

It looks like the station is designed to work for the split streetcar configuration on the arbutus corridor with it's dual east and west facing entrances. The northbound track on arbutus street would face the west entrance and the southbound track would face the east entrance. With this configuration passengers can transfer from the subway to the streetcar without have to cross any streets or streetcar tracks.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Same with Tokyo. But aren't the trains up to 4x longer there? JR Chuo Line in Tokyo ran 16 Canada Line sized car trainsets. There's potentially over 2,600 passengers on one train.

Japanese Wikipedia has the capacity for a 10-car E233 series at around 1500 passengers. The 11-car E235 Yamanote line trains list around 1700pax. (Fast fact: The 15-car trains are either the Sobu Rapid//Yokosuka E217, the Takasaki/Ueno-Tokyo/Shonan-Shinjuku/Tokaido E231/E233, and the Joban E531/E231). I'm guessing you don't really have to account for frequency because there is enough time for people to exit the station.

Perhaps a good metric is to count how many stairs/escalators/elevators are assigned per either length of train or passengers per hour. Factors can be stair width as well as how not everyone is getting on/off the train at a time.

In Kyushu/Fukuoka, the average train length tends to be about 6 or 7 cars.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Express691

Japanese Wikipedia has the capacity for a 10-car E233 series at around 1500 passengers. The 11-car E235 Yamanote line trains list around 1700pax. (Fast fact: The 15-car trains are either the Sobu Rapid//Yokosuka E217, the Takasaki/Ueno-Tokyo/Shonan-Shinjuku/Tokaido E231/E233, and the Joban E531/E231). I'm guessing you don't really have to account for frequency because there is enough time for people to exit the station.

Perhaps a good metric is to count how many stairs/escalators/elevators are assigned per either length of train or passengers per hour. Factors can be stair width as well as how not everyone is getting on/off the train at a time.

In Kyushu/Fukuoka, the average train length tends to be about 6 or 7 cars.

I somehow had the impression that Chuo Line had 16 car trains at least when I was there in 2001, but all the stations are 200m long which means 10 cars. Huh. 200m is the length of a theoretical 16 car MKI Skytrain, maybe that's where my confusion came from.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Express691

Japanese Wikipedia has the capacity for a 10-car E233 series at around 1500 passengers.

Just bear in mind that the Japanese idea of "capacity" is rather different than our own...

[Metro-One]

It’s not just about passenger volumes but also the ease of access from various points. Having a single access point means those originating from 3 of 4 corners must cross large busy roads. Then you have facilities such as the hospital that should have direct underground access points.

[officedweller]

The City likes to promote sidewalk use / active street life
- it goes part and parcel with the policy against new enclosed malls downtown.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The City likes to promote sidewalk use / active street life
- it goes part and parcel with the policy against new enclosed malls downtown.

Yes, I know Vancouver’s misguided reasoning for the lack of station entrances, just pointing out why it’s a fucking stupid policy when taken to this extreme.

And underground connection to a major hospital and an adjacent Subway station is something you will even find in the city of Vancouver’s beloved Northern European cities, as is major stations with more than a single entrance point.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yes, I know Vancouver’s misguided reasoning for the lack of station entrances, just pointing out why it’s a fucking stupid policy when taken to this extreme.

And underground connection to a major hospital and an adjacent Subway station is something you will even find in the city of Vancouver’s beloved Northern European cities, as is major stations with more than a single entrance point.

Putting aside the rather obvious point that the City of Vancouver isn't building, designing or able to significantly alter any aspect of this Provincially controlled project, how would an underground connection work to VGH? There's no underground public linkage between the different buildings on the VGH campus, so any underground connection would be into some sort of basement level, unconnected to other departments and buildings.

And the grade up from Broadway to W10th, (and W11th where Ambulatory Care is located) is significant, so there wouldn't be an obvious benefit of staying at grade - it would be a steep underground tunnel. Who would pay for this tunnel? There's been enough difficulty raising the money to build the line and stations. Adding in 'it-would-be-nice-to-have' expenses won't help.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Putting aside the rather obvious point that the City of Vancouver isn't building, designing or able to significantly alter any aspect of this Provincially controlled project, how would an underground connection work to VGH? There's no underground public linkage between the different buildings on the VGH campus, so any underground connection would be into some sort of basement level, unconnected to other departments and buildings.

And the grade up from Broadway to W10th, (and W11th where Ambulatory Care is located) is significant, so there wouldn't be an obvious benefit of staying at grade - it would be a steep underground tunnel. Who would pay for this tunnel? There's been enough difficulty raising the money to build the line and stations. Adding in 'it-would-be-nice-to-have' expenses won't help.

The city of Vancouver isn’t directly at the helm for this project, but it is cozy with the provincial NDP and is definitely having a powerful influence on the project design.

I have actually heard that Translink isn’t pleased with the provincial planners’ station design stipulations (such as the lack of entrances). It goes directly against their pledge not to repeat the design flaws of the Canada Line.

Also easy, how they would do it in every other country, an underground passage that would connect to a bank of elevators and stairs. After you travel the world and experience many subway systems such features no longer seem so “far out” and “impossible.”

[officedweller]

Presumably it would be funded by a hospital fund raising campaign and would end with a series of escalators somewhere under VGH.

[Sheba]

What did people ask for in the survey? I know I asked for one or two more stations to have a bike parkade, as well as The Broadway-City Hall Station to have two entrances (as it's two stations).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The city of Vancouver isn’t directly at the helm for this project, but it is cozy with the provincial NDP and is definitely having a powerful influence on the project design.

I have actually heard that Translink isn’t pleased with the provincial planners’ station design stipulations (such as the lack of entrances). It goes directly against their pledge not to repeat the design flaws of the Canada Line.

The right-wing NIMBYs claim conspiracy from the developer shills; the left-wing NIMBYs claim conspiracy from the motorist shills; now the YIMBYs claim conspiracy from the New Urbanist shills. One is forced to conclude that either all three lobbies are involved in building the Broadway SkyTrain, or none are.

At any rate, the Oak Station concourse plan has a K.O. panel pointing south... directly toward the Emergency Department. So a direct hospital connection can always be done at a later date.

[Metro-One]

It’s not a conspiracy it’s direct first hand knowledge on my part. You do know that the people who work at Translink do have friends you know?

[jollyburger]

Would it be nice to have multiple exits? Yes. Are the entrances going to be overwhelmed with pedestrians getting pushed off the sidewalk trying to cross Broadway? Seems doubtful.

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/report-2013-pedestrian-volume-opinion-survey.pdf

[Metro-One]

Hey, I am just an advocate in building it once and building it right.

You guys can throw all the excuses you want for underbuilt infrastructure.

Although I guess setting one’s targets low does make life easier.

The designs of all the station houses are pretty underwhelming as well.

The new Capstan Station house is actually more exciting than these, save for Broadway and that’s just due to the incidental fact that it will be a hub.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

it seems crazy none of these stations have a 2nd entrance, at the least. this is Broadway FFS. if there is one place to do it outside of Downtown, it is here.

it would at least cut peoples road crossings in 1/2. and why aren't they connecting to Crossroads? it was literally built for that, over a decade ago. it is asinine and ridiculous.

in other news, anyone know if these stations will be able to hit 100m in length? it is so short sighted to not at least allow that at a future date.

[Metro-One]

Yeah I know, second station entrances on major subways down urban corridors, especially hubs, isn’t exactly shooting for the moon here or out of the ordinary...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Some say "excuses," others say "perfect is the enemy of good."

As mentioned, there's room in the plans to build second entrances later when they're actually needed. It's 2020. We're in the middle of a recession. There's little point in spending money we don't have on crowding capacity that isn't needed yet.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

It’s not a conspiracy it’s direct first hand knowledge on my part. You do know that the people who work at Translink do have friends you know?

Has your friend explicitly stated pressure from City Hall on Victoria? If not, what makes you different from Elizabeth Murphy?

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Some say "excuses," others say "perfect is the enemy of good."

As mentioned, there's room in the plans to build second entrances later when they're actually needed. It's 2020. We're in the middle of a recession. There's little point in spending money we don't have on crowding capacity that isn't needed yet.



Has your friend explicitly stated pressure from City Hall on Victoria? If not, what makes you different from Elizabeth Murphy?

Short term thinking I see.

Actually yes, he has. The planning department at Translink isn’t happy directly because of the design stipulations set by the province.