Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

14 billion worth of economic stimulation

Take that $14 billion and spend it on SkyTrains, the Cascadia HSR and/or (sigh) Valley rail, and you'll stimulate a whole lot more. Whistler isn't even sure it wants more tourists, so that kills a big part of the rationale.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

14 billion worth of economic stimulation

Dude, 14 Billion is A LOT of money. There would have to be an undeniably massive amount of data that would support an investment like that. The only project that would command that kind of undeniable data right now in Metro Vancouver, is the Millennium line Skytrain extension to UBC - and that's just based on the 99's data for the last 20 years.

For a project of this magnitude, it would have to be broken up into phases (like every Canadian project) and its entire ongoing construction would probably span about 30 years.

To play devil's advocate, I would suggest splitting it up in the following way:

Phase 1: Build the SOF line first (Chilliwack to Surrey)
Phase 2: Build the Lougheed > Waterfront portion
Phase 3: Build Waterfront > Horseshoe Bay
Phase 4: Build Horseshoe Bay > Whistler

From a glance, these are the problems I can see with it:

Phase 1: The problematic part of all of this is that you need to find the data to support the investment; and already at phase 1, there isn't enough data to support that there's an influx of commuters from Chilliwack to Surrey.

Phase 2: The next very problematic phase would be the pathway that this new rail line would take to get to Waterfront.

Phase 3: What's problematic here is the crossing into the North Shore. And I don't think that will happen until the region concretely decides on how they want to connect the Skytrain to the north shore.

If this project were to get a green light I would fully expect it never to be fully realized within my lifetime as a project of this magnitude (unless constructed quickly - which never happens in Canada) will probably get stuck at each phase until an ambitious government gets voted in.

I do like the route as it's kind of complementing the WCE as a service for the SOF far-flung commuters whereas the WCE handles municipalities like Maple Ridge and Mission. However the Metro region needs to get a proper commuter rail service in operation before expanding it as the WCE shares tracks with freight trains thus limiting its operating hours.

And that's enough playing devil's advocate for me .

[trofirhen]

The rail line in question, extending from Whistler out to Chilliwack, whether given the (super $$expensive and virtually precluded) HSR / regional treatment, remains a vital rail infrastructure. The geographic scope of the line, from Howe Sound through the North Shore out to the eastern valley, is central to the region. If not now or next year, the line will
encompass what will normally be a central axis to commuter belt country. As such, the maintenance and enhancement of this line, if not apparent at present, is and will be of vital necessity
for the planning of the future, as outlying towns and regions densify, as commuter traffic grows, and as Vancouver inexorably becomes a major metro with a major core economy, and more commuters. *It -as evidenced by the comments here -does not have to be considered for HSR, but, that said, a solid two-way commuter traffic flow, planned stations in town centres, rail bed upgrades, rolling stock and station locations are all in dire need of serious consideration for this line to ultimately function in the major, important regional role for which it is destined.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

The rail line in question, extending from Whistler out to Chilliwack, whether given the (super $$expensive and virtually precluded) HSR / regional treatment, remains a vital rail infrastructure. The geographic scope of the line, from Howe Sound through the North Shore out to the eastern valley, is central to the region. If not now or next year, the line will
encompass what will normally be a central axis to commuter belt country. As such, the maintenance and enhancement of this line, if not apparent at present, is and will be of vital necessity
for the planning of the future, as outlying towns and regions densify, as commuter traffic grows, and as Vancouver inexorably becomes a major metro with a major core economy, and more commuters. *It -as evidenced by the comments here -does not have to be considered for HSR, but, that said, a solid two-way commuter traffic flow, planned stations in town centres, rail bed upgrades, rolling stock and station locations are all in dire need of serious consideration for this line to ultimately function in the major, important regional role for which it is destined.

If they were to run a WCE train from Waterfront to Whistler at track speed during ski season, it would be full most of the time. The real question is whether HSR is worth the investment.

[SpongeG]

7 minutes to get to Abbotsford from Lougheed?

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If they were to run a WCE train from Waterfront to Whistler at track speed during ski season, it would be full most of the time. The real question is whether HSR is worth the investment.

Well, assuming you mean "WCE Train from Waterfront to Whistler" to be 'existing trains on existing track" it's not that great

The old daylinger services took a bit more than 2:30 hours North Vancouver (near Pemberton Ave) to Whistler. A Waterfront service would have to do a great swing through Vancouver and Burnaby, adding substantially more time. the "Waterfront to Whistler" would be much slower than any of the competing bus services thanks to 22 kilometers of extra distance, a reverse move, several slow rail yards, and the fact that locomotive-hauled trains are generally slower-accelerating than diesel multiple unit dayliners

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Well, assuming you mean "WCE Train from Waterfront to Whistler" to be 'existing trains on existing track" it's not that great

The old daylinger services took a bit more than 2:30 hours North Vancouver (near Pemberton Ave) to Whistler. A Waterfront service would have to do a great swing through Vancouver and Burnaby, adding substantially more time. the "Waterfront to Whistler" would be much slower than any of the competing bus services thanks to 22 kilometers of extra distance, a reverse move, several slow rail yards, and the fact that locomotive-hauled trains are generally slower-accelerating than diesel multiple unit dayliners

Compare that to a white out up the mountains or an accident that has close the highway, and for the day users, it makes sense. Three hour ride each way is not horrible if you can avoid the traffic, weather and accidents. It wouldn't be for commuting, but for leisure travel.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Compare that to a white out up the mountains or an accident that has close the highway, and for the day users, it makes sense. Three hour ride each way is not horrible if you can avoid the traffic, weather and accidents. It wouldn't be for commuting, but for leisure travel.

Once upon a time I drove the Vancouver-Whistler run professionally, and tbh it's just not all that erratic a drive

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Once upon a time I drove the Vancouver-Whistler run professionally, and tbh it's just not all that erratic a drive

What about those people who have decided to go car-less? As a HSR route, this idea has no future, but as a regular rail passenger service route, if planned right, it could do well.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Well, assuming you mean "WCE Train from Waterfront to Whistler" to be 'existing trains on existing track" it's not that great

The old daylinger services took a bit more than 2:30 hours North Vancouver (near Pemberton Ave) to Whistler. A Waterfront service would have to do a great swing through Vancouver and Burnaby, adding substantially more time. the "Waterfront to Whistler" would be much slower than any of the competing bus services thanks to 22 kilometers of extra distance, a reverse move, several slow rail yards, and the fact that locomotive-hauled trains are generally slower-accelerating than diesel multiple unit dayliners

Yes, there's no real benefit to carrying on to downtown given that a Lonsdale Quay station with transfers to the SeaBus would be much faster

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Henbo]

Big news from CP:

"CP is proposing to construct a multi-modal, multi-commodity transload and logistics facility adjacent to its Vancouver Intermodal Facility in Pitt Meadows, to meet increased rail demand in Canada’s largest trade gateway."

The proposed 41-hectare facility has three major rail and transload components:

• Agricultural hub where Canadian agricultural products will be received by rail and transloaded to shipping containers for distribution in custom allotments around the world;
• An auto compound to receive by rail North American-made automobiles destined for local distributors, with specific design consideration to accommodate electric vehicles; and
• A liquid energy transload and rail facility to serve Metro Vancouver demand for transportation fuels and ethanol.

https://vancouverlogisticspark.ca

by CP Logistics Park: Vancouver

[swimmer_spe]

Would it be possible to double track the rail lines in the Fraser Canyon?
For example, build another one over the existing one.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Would it be possible to double track the rail lines in the Fraser Canyon?
For example, build another one over the existing one.

There is barely enough space as it is for a track on either side of the canyon. Some of those tunnels are as old as the railway itself. Any rail expansion in the canyon will be extremely expensive.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MIPS

There is barely enough space as it is for a track on either side of the canyon. Some of those tunnels are as old as the railway itself. Any rail expansion in the canyon will be extremely expensive.

So, if they ever wanted more capacity added to the lines going through there, what would they do? The rest of Canada could have double track on both CN and CP mainlines and this would be the bottleneck.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, if they ever wanted more capacity added to the lines going through there, what would they do? The rest of Canada could have double track on both CN and CP mainlines and this would be the bottleneck.

well they would have to do a lot of tunneling, or find new routes, or spend — loads to move mountains.

the rail companies would probably never do it without federal $$$

[scottN]

CN and CP already share track through the fraser canyon, so one track carries all the westbound trains and the other track carries all the eastbound trains.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by scottN

CN and CP already share track through the fraser canyon, so one track carries all the westbound trains and the other track carries all the eastbound trains.

Yes, However, further east, they use their own lines for both directions. Eventually as traffic increases, there may be a need for double track. Everywhere else isn't too bad, but there is not good.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by Henbo

Big news from CP:

"CP is proposing to construct a multi-modal, multi-commodity transload and logistics facility adjacent to its Vancouver Intermodal Facility in Pitt Meadows, to meet increased rail demand in Canada’s largest trade gateway."

The proposed 41-hectare facility has three major rail and transload components:

• Agricultural hub where Canadian agricultural products will be received by rail and transloaded to shipping containers for distribution in custom allotments around the world;
• An auto compound to receive by rail North American-made automobiles destined for local distributors, with specific design consideration to accommodate electric vehicles; and
• A liquid energy transload and rail facility to serve Metro Vancouver demand for transportation fuels and ethanol.

https://vancouverlogisticspark.ca

by CP Logistics Park: Vancouver

This map conveniently fails to show that all this land is protected in the ALR.

https://www.alc.gov.bc.ca/assets/alc/ass.../metro-vancouver/92g/alr_map_92g_027.pdf

[officedweller]

Railways are a federal undertaking, so would trump the Provincially designated ALR.

Note the reference to "liquid energy" - they make it sound like this:


https://5hourenergy.com/energy-shots/grape-regular-strength/