Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by scryer

But that just demonstrates why its imperative that we extend the Millennium line to UBC. Almost half of the ridership (46%) calculated along Broadway has UBC as their destination. Arbutus will be anything but quiet; it will be an active station as now the fleet of buses going to the University will have to relocate there to accommodate for the 46% of Skytrain riders that now have to transfer from train to bus.

Right, and as previously mentioned, 4/44//84/9/25/33 riders may switch to the 99 now that service has improved. With up to 54% more capacity though (because SkyTrain), demand should be manageable until the next extension comes through.

I think it actually works in TransLink's favour - by the time they have funding in place, they'll also have solid ridership data that'll shut up the NIMBYs and naysayers: "Five years after the Broadway opening, the 99 is already crowded again, so how are buses or streetcars "adequate" for the future?"

Originally Posted by officedweller

That raises an interesting question.
Can the bus loop be repurposed for a streetcar station?

Good question. I'm sure it's possible, but that part of the Greenway is apparently too cramped for two tracks... hence this questionable idea.

Me, I want a tunnel from 16th to 6th, but that's probably not happening.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Good question. I'm sure it's possible, but that part of the Greenway is apparently too cramped for two tracks... hence this questionable idea.

Me, I want a tunnel from 16th to 6th, but that's probably not happening.

They could have a track on either side of the buildig - assuming the streetcars have doors on both sides to allow a centre platform.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Good question. I'm sure it's possible, but that part of the Greenway is apparently too cramped for two tracks... hence this questionable idea.

Me, I want a tunnel from 16th to 6th, but that's probably not happening.

It's wide enough for 2 tracks, but not enough for 2 tracks + cycling/pedestrian path... so the cycling takes priority and the track move to the street.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Photo Source: Broadway Subway Open House Material PDF

I wonder what will happen with this station once the line is extended to UBC. The bus loop likely will be too big. Hopefully it can be repurposed.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I wonder what will happen with this station once the line is extended to UBC. The bus loop likely will be too big. Hopefully it can be repurposed.

I see no reason why later on Translink can't just pave it over and create "Arbutus Square @ The Greenway on the Millenium Line". Might even be a nice little confluence for people.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I wonder what will happen with this station once the line is extended to UBC. The bus loop likely will be too big. Hopefully it can be repurposed.

Originally Posted by chowhou

I see no reason why later on Translink can't just pave it over and create "Arbutus Square @ The Greenway on the Millenium Line". Might even be a nice little confluence for people.

There's room for a small building at the back. 3-4 floors' worth of cafes and bars?

[dpogue]

I have to say I find some of these station designs to be fairly uninspiring. They work, sure, but it seems a shame for all of them to be glass boxes surrounded by a concrete plaza. I'm most familiar with the areas around Great Northern Way and Mt Pleasant/Main Street, so I find those stations particularly at odds with the surrounding character.

With Great Northern Way, it's an area that historically was on the banks of False Creek, and then an industrial area. Lots of the redevelopments there have made nods to the style of those industrial buildings, and I think the station could do similarly without compromising elements like visibility and CPTED.

They could use painted brick or corrugated sheet metal around solid parts of the exterior of the station house, like the Canvas building across the street did:

(Screenshot from Google Maps)

Rather than walls of plain glass, they could take inspiration from the garage-style doors of the (to be demolished) Equinox Gallery building:

(Screenshot from Google Maps)

Public art in and around the station could make reference to the St George rainway, Brewery Creek, and the filling of False Creek for rail yards.

I realize they're leaving space for a future development there too, but I find it somewhat ridiculous that the entrances to the station lead out south and west to Great Northern Way and Thornton Street, when most people exiting the station will be wanting to head north or east towards Emily Carr university.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I realize they're leaving space for a future development there too, but I find it somewhat ridiculous that the entrances to the station lead out south and west to Great Northern Way and Thornton Street, when most people exiting the station will be wanting to head north or east towards Emily Carr university.

Seems like there will be a fairly even split if you compare the number of students/staff at Emily Carr vs. residents/office workers in the area. If the majority of people leaving the station were just going to Emily Carr they could have stuck the station before the portal directly beside their building.

[officedweller]

They probably aim the exits to the public rights of way rather than to private rights of way that could change in future and also don't favour one destination over another (ie Oakridge Station's entrance does not face the mall)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

They probably aim the exits to the public rights of way rather than to private rights of way that could change in future and also don't favour one destination over another (ie Oakridge Station's entrance does not face the mall)

Also, toward bus connections - the entrance is right in front of the 84 stop.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Also, toward bus connections - the entrance is right in front of the 84 stop.

Speaking of the 84, is there any reason to have the 84 terminate at VCC-Clark once the extension is built? There's nothing to transfer from/to other than the Millenium Line, so why would anyone want to transfer with the 84 at VCC-Clark when they could do so at Emily Carr?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Speaking of the 84, is there any reason to have the 84 terminate at VCC-Clark once the extension is built? There's nothing to transfer from/to other than the Millenium Line, so why would anyone want to transfer with the 84 at VCC-Clark when they could do so at Emily Carr?

I imagine it'll keep terminating at VCC-Clark due to the bus layover facilities there. There's also a fairly well-used stop between Emily Carr and VCC-Clark at Foley Street.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I imagine it'll keep terminating at VCC-Clark due to the bus layover facilities there. There's also a fairly well-used stop between Emily Carr and VCC-Clark at Foley Street.

Sounds about right. It reduces the crazy amounts of crowding too, because now eastbound passengers will disembark at GNW and westbound passengers will board at VCC.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Sounds about right. It reduces the crazy amounts of crowding too, because now eastbound passengers will disembark at GNW and westbound passengers will board at VCC.

I don't think I'm unique, if I have a chance to get off a bus and onto a Skytrain, you better believe I'm taking that opportunity. Most westbound passengers will disembark at GNW (if for no other reason than Google Maps will recommend to do so, it'll be faster after all.)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Depends on whether or not you're okay with standing. Right now the VCC lineup is just slightly bigger than the amount of seats (though granted, the SkyTrain extension might make it shorter).

[Express691]

One thing I've noticed in all the diagrams is that the scale in the diagram legend is incorrect. All of the platform floor plans are zoomed out which means that the scale has then become inaccurate.

Otherwise if you used the scale to estimate the platform length, you get 40 meters, aka the Canada Line platform lengths.

I am now concerned about platform width - I hope they at least make them as wide as the ones on the Canada Line from Waterfront to Olympic Village and not something narrow like Metrotown or Surrey Central.

I guess if you wanted to measure the width of the platform according to the diagrams, you have to take the 82500mm on the diagram, measure it in real world centimeters, measure the width of the platform in the diagram in real world centimeters, and then cross-multiply.

Hold on, is platform width addressed anywhere in these diagrams?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Eyeballing it doesn't work either - the platform looks about three SkyTrains wide, but ~7.8 metres is definitely off.

EDIT: Okay, it's 1:785 and a roughly 10m platform width.

[officedweller]

No dimension on platform width on the diagrams, but they are all centre platforms
- so expect similar width to the downtown Canada Line stations which have centre platforms between two bored tunnels?
You may be able to guess based on the width of the elevator or escalator & stairs.

[scottN]

Originally Posted by idunno

Not stoked about the lack of cycling connections from 10th to the stations. Though I guess that'll come with the Broadway Plan engagement this winter.

Even with better connections, the locations several bike racks will be poor poor. In many cases you have to cross in front of the main station entrance to reach the bike rack from 10th avenue.

At Mount Pleasant it looks like there will be "future active transportation corridor" along the west side of the station to connect to 10th avenue via the laneway. This should work great to separate cyclists from pedestrians on Main Street where the sidewalk width is limited.

City Hall has bike racks facing broadway, but without a good connection to 10th. They should be closer to 10th instead, perhaps at the top of those strange fenced off stairs that go up behind the station. What are those for anyway and why are they fenced off? This seems like the ideal route for cyclists from 10th avenue to reach the bike racks and the station entrance.

The Oak station has the bike racks facing broadway, but requires cyclists coming from 10th via Laurel to cross in front of the station to reach the bike racks. The bike racks should be on Laurel instead. Arbutus doesn't appear to even have any bike racks at all despite being immediately adjacent to one of the best bike routes in the city, and being a terminus station it will draw cycling traffic from more directions.

Emily Carr / Great Northern way is another station that gets this right, placing the bike rack in a low congestion area, close to the main bike route along 1st avenue. Still I would rather see this station face the other ways towards the pedestrian friendly environment on 1st avenue rather than the highwaylike great northern way.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by giallo

It's definitely odd. I can't think of a single station in Seoul that has less than 4 entrances/exits. Some of the larger interchange stations will often go in to the double digits.

Vancouver is much smaller, yes, but it's growing quickly, and it'd be nice to spend the funds today to future proof for tomorrow.

Same with Tokyo. But aren't the trains up to 4x longer there? JR Chuo Line in Tokyo ran 16 Canada Line sized car trainsets. There's potentially over 2,600 passengers on one train.