Broadway Subway - Millennium Line Extension to Arbutus | U/C

[officedweller]

Thanks for posting - will take some time to digest.

[Jimbo604]

Photo Source: Broadway Subway Open House Material PDF

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

overall the stations are good i think and mostly what i expected. it is good to see knockout panels, i hope CoV makes developments connect to them in the future.

i do wish there were more fare-gates though. they need more of those.

[ilikeredheads]

like others have said, not adding more gates at Brdway/Cityhall is a big mistake, especially when there won't be a second entrance. I guess they are really betting that most transfers will happen only between 2 lines. It's still shortsighted to funnel all foot traffic to one spot at an interchange station, imo. Vancouver really hates more than 1 entrance lol.

The rest of the designs seem decent.

[Phrescata]

Would it be possible in the future to upgrade the emergency exits to fully operational entrances?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

like others have said, not adding more gates at Brdway/Cityhall is a big mistake, especially when there won't be a second entrance. I guess they are really betting that most transfers will happen only between 2 lines. It's still shortsighted to funnel all foot traffic to one spot at an interchange station, imo. Vancouver really hates more than 1 entrance lol.

Maybe others have different experiences, but the amount of times I've gotten off the 99 or Canada Line at BW/CH for a purpose other than transfering I can possibly count on one hand. It always felt to me that whenever I exited BW/CH, I was just following the group to the 99 stop in whichever direction I was planning on going.

[officedweller]

Note platform length is 82.5m.

Mt. Pleasant Station / VGH Oak Station / South Granville Station / Arbutus Station
These ones have Concourse Level knock-out panels to the north and south,
though the ones on the same side as the main station house seem to be too close to be of any use
since they lead to a fare paid area and faregates would have to be installed in a secondary entrance.

There's a general design element where secondary access points lead to the Concourse Level,
which may overload use of the same escalators from the platform.
I suppose they may also be able to add an exit at the opposite ends of the platform as well through what are the emergency exit areas, but we don't know if "service areas" are occupied by huge ventilation fans that cannot be relocated to enlarge passages.

Broadway City-Hall Station
The consultation materials fail to show the "Mezzanine Level".
The 2nd dagram is called Concourse level (not Mezzanine), and a cross passage to the northbound Canada Line platform is not shown.
I think the passage shown is to the southbound platform.

This one also has Concourse Level knock-out panels both north and south.



You can see the missing level here.
That's quite the oversight for consultation purposes as it omits display of a platform cross connection.
At least the plans look consistent with this diagram.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

like others have said, not adding more gates at Brdway/Cityhall is a big mistake, especially when there won't be a second entrance. I guess they are really betting that most transfers will happen only between 2 lines. It's still shortsighted to funnel all foot traffic to one spot at an interchange station, imo. Vancouver really hates more than 1 entrance lol.

The rest of the designs seem decent.

It's definitely odd. I can't think of a single station in Seoul that has less than 4 entrances/exits. Some of the larger interchange stations will often go in to the double digits.

Vancouver is much smaller, yes, but it's growing quickly, and it'd be nice to spend the funds today to future proof for tomorrow.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Broadway City-Hall Station
The consultation materials fail to show the "Mezzanine Level".
The 2nd dagram is called Concourse level (not Mezzanine), and a cross passage to the northbound Canada Line platform is not shown.
I think the passage shown is to the southbound platform.

The Mezzanine level is shown in the image gallery. There's not much to see there to be honest.

LINK

Is it just me, or does the future-99 terminus at Arbutus seem criminally underbuilt for the amount of traffic I would expect to see queueing to head into UBC? Right now the block-long line at least tends to stop at the entrance of Commercial-Broadway which is someone convenient. Looks to me like the queue is going to wrap around to the rear of the structure.

[officedweller]

Thanks.
That Mezzanine passage is really important for the morning transfers to downtown and they'll probably get questions on it if it isn't clearly shown.

For Arbutus, the drawing shows 2 articulated buses and can probbaly hold a line a few rows deep
- how does that long of waiting area compare to the one by the Shoppers Drug Mart at Commercial-Broadway Station?
I also noticed how they used the plaza across the street at the Pinnacle condo for an emergency exit.

[MistyMountain]

Originally Posted by chowhou

The Mezzanine level is shown in the image gallery. There's not much to see there to be honest.

LINK

Is it just me, or does the future-99 terminus at Arbutus seem criminally underbuilt for the amount of traffic I would expect to see queueing to head into UBC? Right now the block-long line at least tends to stop at the entrance of Commercial-Broadway which is someone convenient. Looks to me like the queue is going to wrap around to the rear of the structure.

Keep in mind that according to Translink only about 1/3 of the passengers on the 99 continue onto UBC.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by MistyMountain

Keep in mind that according to Translink only about 1/3 of the passengers on the 99 continue onto UBC.

I could have sworn that the statistic at one point was something like ~46ish% carried on to UBC and this meant a "minority" continued to UBC. I can only imagine that once traffic adjusts to the new, faster, and more convienent skytrain, you'll see some traffic that was once on the 84, 25, 33, and R4 move over to the Broadway corridor as well. UBC growth also doesn't seem to be slowing down. Perhaps they've already run the simulations, I know I haven't but I can only imagine traffic will only increase.

[djh]

For the Great Northern Way site: what sort of arrangement will Translink have with a future development partner? Let's assume it's something similar to the one for Cambie/King Edward (I.e., the organisation's behind the Canada Line project bought the surface property, developed the station on it, then sold effectively air rights to develop above the station house). I could be wrong, but there's precedent there so it's a safe starting point.

Now, assuming that's the plan for GNW, in order for that deal to be beneficial to a future buyer, they need to have significant air rights to build a decent (i.e., profitable) tower above that station. They will therefore need a significant foundation built below and supported around or through the station for them to build said future tower upon (they won't be able to dig support structures once the train station is built).

Does that mean Translink is currently having initial conversations with potential developers about building a tower above this station? Doing engineering studies so they can calculate foundation and column sizes, positioning, determining maximum height allowances and reviewing potential upzoning for the site, etc? As far as I can tell, these steps must be prerequisites for a developer agreeing to buy air rights where they can't control the foundation design, otherwise they wouldn't be a able to get any value out of the land.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by Phrescata

Would it be possible in the future to upgrade the emergency exits to fully operational entrances?

No. They go through back room areas of the stations.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by djh

Does that mean Translink is currently having initial conversations with potential developers about building a tower above this station? Doing engineering studies so they can calculate foundation and column sizes, positioning, determining maximum height allowances and reviewing potential upzoning for the site, etc? As far as I can tell, these steps must be prerequisites for a developer agreeing to buy air rights where they can't control the foundation design, otherwise they wouldn't be a able to get any value out of the land.

The condo at Cambie & King Ed is cantilevered over the stationhouse so doesn't rely on the station house itself for support.

This rendering below shows a row of columns along the west side of the stationhouse.
Maybe PCI is the developer or maybe they will include "generic" columns that can support a tower of a projected height.
The description says the station roof will serve as a deck for the building above, so it sounds like they are in advanced design.

Originally Posted by Jimbo604

Photo Source: Broadway Subway Open House Material PDF

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by djh

For the Great Northern Way site: what sort of arrangement will Translink have with a future development partner? Let's assume it's something similar to the one for Cambie/King Edward (I.e., the organisation's behind the Canada Line project bought the surface property, developed the station on it, then sold effectively air rights to develop above the station house). I could be wrong, but there's precedent there so it's a safe starting point.

Now, assuming that's the plan for GNW, in order for that deal to be beneficial to a future buyer, they need to have significant air rights to build a decent (i.e., profitable) tower above that station. They will therefore need a significant foundation built below and supported around or through the station for them to build said future tower upon (they won't be able to dig support structures once the train station is built).

Does that mean Translink is currently having initial conversations with potential developers about building a tower above this station? Doing engineering studies so they can calculate foundation and column sizes, positioning, determining maximum height allowances and reviewing potential upzoning for the site, etc? As far as I can tell, these steps must be prerequisites for a developer agreeing to buy air rights where they can't control the foundation design, otherwise they wouldn't be a able to get any value out of the land.

I'm not sure Translink have acquired that site. I think it may be part of the PCI/Lowtide property, in which case the station construction could be similar to Granville, where PCI are also developing an office building that will incorporate the station entrance. Translink are demolishing other buildings they own on the campus at Great Northern Way, but that's for the track leading to the tunnel portal, not the station location.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I could have sworn that the statistic at one point was something like ~46ish% carried on to UBC and this meant a "minority" continued to UBC. I can only imagine that once traffic adjusts to the new, faster, and more convienent skytrain, you'll see some traffic that was once on the 84, 25, 33, and R4 move over to the Broadway corridor as well. UBC growth also doesn't seem to be slowing down. Perhaps they've already run the simulations, I know I haven't but I can only imagine traffic will only increase.

Better an overflow here than at Commercial though. Once the UBC extension is done, Arbutus should go back to being a quiet station (until the Greenway and streetcar are done, that is).

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

like others have said, not adding more gates at Brdway/Cityhall is a big mistake, especially when there won't be a second entrance. I guess they are really betting that most transfers will happen only between 2 lines. It's still shortsighted to funnel all foot traffic to one spot at an interchange station, imo. Vancouver really hates more than 1 entrance lol.

Rather, TransLink currently lacks the means or the motive for a second entrance. The concourse plan has a K/O panel for the NE corner, so worst comes to worst they can always add a second entrance on the A&W lot if/when it's needed.

[jollyburger]

PCI/Lowtide own it.



https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news...e-creek-flats-offered-in-untendered-deal

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Better an overflow here than at Commercial though. Once the UBC extension is done, Arbutus should go back to being a quiet station (until the Greenway and streetcar are done, that is).

But that just demonstrates why its imperative that we extend the Millennium line to UBC. Almost half of the ridership (46%) calculated along Broadway has UBC as their destination. Arbutus will be anything but quiet; it will be an active station as now the fleet of buses going to the University will have to relocate there to accommodate for the 46% of Skytrain riders that now have to transfer from train to bus.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Better an overflow here than at Commercial though. Once the UBC extension is done, Arbutus should go back to being a quiet station (until the Greenway and streetcar are done, that is).

That raises an interesting question.
Can the bus loop be repurposed for a streetcar station?