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  #19021  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 12:00 AM
Feathered Friend Feathered Friend is offline
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Admittedly, I don't see why this is raising such a fuss. The original community plan envisioned a school with social housing at this location, so that intent has been known for 30 years or so.

Furthermore, if the city were to sell the land, the history of 8X shows they would still catch heck. As such, why should they deviate from the original goal of creating a 80 / 20 mix of market to non-market housing in the neighbourhood.
     
     
  #19022  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 2:44 AM
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AFAIK half the controversy is people confusing social housing with homeless shelters, and the other half is affluenza.
     
     
  #19023  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 3:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
AFAIK half the controversy is people confusing social housing with homeless shelters, and the other half is affluenza.
Haha. I'm going to start using that.

God forbid we work as a community/society, and help those that need it. Having multiple housing options in or near an area with the highest number of jobs makes sense.
     
     
  #19024  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 3:44 AM
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There's a lot of NIMBYism on this forum these days...
     
     
  #19025  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 4:06 AM
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1299 West Hastings is partly social housing because they didn't have enough to fund the entire building:

Quote:
C-Side
1299 W. Hastings Street
171 units (2002)
C-side is an affordable housing
project in Coal Harbour that
is a mix of social housing and
market rental. All of the units
were intended to be social
housing, but because there
was only funding to develop
the family component as social
housing, the 171 units for
singles or couples were built
as market rental housing with
the expectation that, as the
mortgage is paid off, a positive
cash flow will be generated
that can be used to subsidize
core-need households.
https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/affordable-housing-policy-new-neighbourhoods-brochure.pdf
     
     
  #19026  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 4:18 AM
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Here's the 1996 report on the community centre & future school/non-market housing:

https://cd1-bylaws.vancouver.ca/ByCD-1Number/cd1s/iCD-1(365).PDF
     
     
  #19027  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 5:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
1299 West Hastings is partly social housing because they didn't have enough to fund the entire building:
That brochure you linked to looks like it's about 10 years old, but C-Side is still a mix of market and non-market today, managed by the Affordable Housing Societies. Presumably as it's nearly 20 years old, they've been able to pay off a chunk of the mortgage and so more of the units are now available at subsidized rents. A 1-bed market rental is $1,885 a month.
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  #19028  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 8:58 AM
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333 Seymour (renovation)

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Aug.25 '20, my pics



Nov.21 '20, my pics












     
     
  #19029  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
AFAIK half the controversy is people confusing social housing with homeless shelters, and the other half is affluenza.
Yes, it’s sad that the two have so frequently been confused as being the same.

My only beef is the view cones causing the units to be so small and odd in layout.
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  #19030  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Feathered Friend View Post
I believe the funding is now in place thanks to the VSB's deal with BC Hydro that allowed for the new subterranean substation on the Lord Roberts Annex property by Nelson Park.
Ahh yes, that includes a rebuild of Lord Roberts too right?
     
     
  #19031  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 5:00 PM
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Ahh yes, that includes a rebuild of Lord Roberts too right?
I don't know if it affects Lord Roberts Elementary, but it does replace Lord Roberts Annex (in Nelson Park). The pupils there will transfer to the new Coal Harbour School while the Annex is removed and the park site becomes home to the new BC Hydro underground substation, then the park and a new Annex is rebuilt in the park. [Courier article from 2018]
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  #19032  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
Well, if upon a cost/benefit analysis, the costs are shown to substantially outweigh the benefits, then the project is pure folly and waste.

This is not just downtown; it's the most desirable, expensive, premium, waterfront real estate in the entire city, maybe the entire country. If the city removed barriers to a major redevelopment, this site could be sold for what? $200 million? $300 million? More? Even if the school was a mandatory component or CAC.

$1,000,000 per unit of social housing on ultra premium waterfront real estate, plus the lost opportunity to sell the land for many times more than the cost of this absurdly expensive social housing, is totally irrational. A conversation in which the benefits are shown to be overwhelmingly outweighed by the costs is precisely what should have happened a long time ago before this idiotic and wasteful idea moved forward.
That cost is not just irrational. It's robbery, bordering on the grossly obscene.

And we ask ourselves why annual tax increases have wildly exceeded overall inflation for longer than I can remember.

A real media would make hay with this. When did governments suddenly become immune from being called out for what they really are: wasteful and entirely out of touch with the average taxpayer.
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  #19033  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 7:48 PM
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My two cents: the high cost is a consequence of decades of under-funding (or no funding) for social housing and new schools. To the best of my knowledge, the Coal Harbour master plan/ODP called for a school, community centre, daycare, and social housing on this site. The land was provided to the City by Marathon during the rezoning. Funding was secured in the late 90s for the first round of public amenities and facilities (the community centre and Coal Habour housing co-op). Two decades later funding is now secured for the second round of public amenities and facilities (the school, daycare, and social housing), but the cost has been grossly inflated in the intervening decades. The social housing and daycare are being funded by CACs, so there is no direct property tax implications, and the Province is paying for the school, as it should.

It would be a betrayal of the intent of the Coal Harbour ODP and the principle of socially diverse neighbourhoods to abandon the creation of this projects at this point. And this is the last undeveloped parcel in the neighbourhood, so if not here, then where? As for selling the site and requiring the development to include the school and daycare, it's too small to build underground parking without resorting to an exotic solution like a car elevator and the land lift that would be required to deliver the public amenities (or their shells) in kind would have to be gargantuan.

If the school had been funded twenty years ago by the Province as should have been the case, and there had been Provincial and/or federal funding for the social housing, the cost of this project wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Now because of decades of intransigence by senior levels of government, the project's costs are wildly out of proportion to prevailing norms.
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  #19034  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2020, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
My two cents: the high cost is a consequence of decades of under-funding (or no funding) for social housing and new schools. To the best of my knowledge, the Coal Harbour master plan/ODP called for a school, community centre, daycare, and social housing on this site. The land was provided to the City by Marathon during the rezoning. Funding was secured in the late 90s for the first round of public amenities and facilities (the community centre and Coal Habour housing co-op). Two decades later funding is now secured for the second round of public amenities and facilities (the school, daycare, and social housing), but the cost has been grossly inflated in the intervening decades. The social housing and daycare are being funded by CACs, so there is no direct property tax implications, and the Province is paying for the school, as it should.

It would be a betrayal of the intent of the Coal Harbour ODP and the principle of socially diverse neighbourhoods to abandon the creation of this projects at this point. And this is the last undeveloped parcel in the neighbourhood, so if not here, then where? As for selling the site and requiring the development to include the school and daycare, it's too small to build underground parking without resorting to an exotic solution like a car elevator and the land lift that would be required to deliver the public amenities (or their shells) in kind would have to be gargantuan.

If the school had been funded twenty years ago by the Province as should have been the case, and there had been Provincial and/or federal funding for the social housing, the cost of this project wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Now because of decades of intransigence by senior levels of government, the project's costs are wildly out of proportion to prevailing norms.
It's true that the costs are higher to build now that they were. I'm not sure they're necessarily 'wildly out of proportion to prevailing norms'. The 60 units of housing are expected to cost $36,505,000 to build. These are not all studio units - 35 of them are 2 and 3-bedroom, and construction will be more expensive as "the project is being designed to achieve zero emissions, including certification to Passive House standard". That's more expensive to build, but much cheaper to operate, and saves money over the life of the building, (for both the City, as owner, and the tenants).

The Province never made this school a priority because generally they've been putting school construction funding into seismically upgrading existing schools, or replacing them. Adding new schools, even where there's demand, has taken a back seat. This project can go ahead because, as Feathered Friend noted, the BC Hydro funds to build the school have become available as part of the deal on the new substation under Nelson Park. The City couldn't, or chose not to, build housing here until the school could be built. The school is expected to cost $31,655,000, and the childcare (which is now bigger than originally planned), $12,652,000.

Some of the childcare costs are coming from the Province, and additional grant opportunities with CMHC and Federation of Canadian Municipalities through their Green Municipal Fund are being actively pursued and may reduce the City's costs of building the housing. The decision is being taken quickly, before those funds are secured, because the School Board need completion as soon as possible so that they in turn can hand the park location of the existing Lord Roberts Annex over to BC Hydro.
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  #19035  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2020, 8:31 AM
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St. Andrews Wesley United Church

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St. Andrews Wesley United Church at the corner of Nelson and Burrard is now closed and fenced off for it's repairs/restoration/seismic upgrade. Could be eighteen months to two years.

April 10 '19, my pic


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Behold the new copper roof.

Oct.1 '20, my pics


More roof revealed now.


Nov.22 '20, my pics














     
     
  #19036  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2020, 7:14 PM
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Closing date set for White Spot on West Georgia; location to be demolished

Quote:
The White Spot location on West Georgia at Cardero is due for its long-anticipated date with the wrecking ball, and the restaurant confirms its doors will close for good on Nov. 28.

The property at 1616 West Georgia, which includes the adjacent vacant lot, sold for a whopping $245 million in 2017. Plans for redevelopment by Carnival International Holdings in partnership with Aspac are for a pair of 38-storey highrise buildings featuring a four-storey podium linking the towers. The property will have an anticipated 455 strata residential units altogether.


     
     
  #19037  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 6:11 AM
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I can't wait for the copper to oxidize. I'm not crazy about the actual copper colour on this building
     
     
  #19038  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 9:38 AM
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I can't wait for the copper to oxidize. I'm not crazy about the actual copper colour on this building
Yes, agreed. The same for me with Christ Church Cathedral. I know that the roof on CCC had to be fixed, but the old roof in shingles and moss ws so charming and mellow.
     
     
  #19039  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 6:01 PM
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How many addicts are going to try to pull down those drain pipes?

Hopefully they’re very securely fastened.
     
     
  #19040  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2020, 8:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
$1,000,000 per unit of social housing on ultra premium waterfront real estate, plus the lost opportunity to sell the land for many times more than the cost of this absurdly expensive social housing, is totally irrational. A conversation in which the benefits are shown to be overwhelmingly outweighed by the costs is precisely what should have happened a long time ago before this idiotic and wasteful idea moved forward.
This is very frustrating I agree. While all neighbourhoods need social housing to spread it though the City and not centralize/ghettoize, building it waterfront on one of the most expensive lots in the City is simply madness and in my opinion as a taxpayer nearly criminal.

Sell the lot, purchase a nearby development site, and use the proceeds from the land sale to build even more social housing. It's not rocket science.
     
     
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