KIWI Condos on King William | ? | 14 fl | Complete

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ZTrade

I wouldn't call it a pipe dream, however, we're probably 15-30 years away from seeing your vision materialize.

I want to see all of the storefronts on Main, King, Cannon and Barton fixed similar to James st N and 5-15 storey residential built along the corridors all the way to Ottawa St. This way, all of Central Hamilton will have a more Downtown vibe especially with an LRT connecting Tim Hortons field to the rest of the core. Convert Main and King into 2-way streets too.

If this were to materialize, Hamilton can end up with a smaller scaled Downtown Toronto vibe. The Downtown core of Hamilton would be like Downtown Toronto up to Bloor St. North of Bloor to Eglinton would be like our Wellington to Ottawa St.

I think that's very possible within 10 - 20 years. As downtown fills in and gains thousands of new residents and hundreds of new employers, midrises will begin to dot the lower city.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

I think that's very possible within 10 - 20 years. As downtown fills in and gains thousands of new residents and hundreds of new employers, midrises will begin to dot the lower city.

I love how noone factors in the increased amt of traffic and congestion this will cause - hamilton has issues with that as it is.. how is the city going to address the existing road infrastructure? You can't expand the lanes any more than they already are.. toronto has the subway.. we don't.. and LRT really wasn't going to help with that.

Increased traffic are things that put the pier 8 development on hold, as well as those 3 giant skyscraper condos along francis st in stoney creek. It's fine to have all this development, but the citys infrastructure has to be able to provide for it - otherwise its like providing blood to the heart through small veins - or having arteries clogged..

[Innsertnamehere]

The city is fine traffic wise. It’s really not bad compared to most of the GTA - and the lower city’s population is at the lowest it has been in nearly a century.

The growth will more so recoup population loss over the last few decades than it will actually grow the inner city.

The roads have plenty of capacity, and besides, auto modal shares are fairly low in the lower city anyway. The LRT will absolutely help with it as it will provide an alternative to driving and reduce auto trips.

The city has its Transportation Master Plan that outlines how traffic patterns are expected to change over the next 30 years, and the big capacity pinch points are expected to be the mountain accesses and the freeways, not lower city streets.

I genuinely believe Hamilton is about to experience something similar to what Waterloo has experienced over the last decade. The amount of apartment applications over the last year in the core is nothing short of startling and developers had already started to buy up parcels along the LRT prior to its cancellation.

The background gentrification going on in the lower city is also significant and will continue to drive growth. Drive down every residential street and it seems like at least one house is getting gut renovated. It’s pushing out a lot of formerly affordable housing, but also creating a larger cache of higher income households that can support things like retail streets and whatnot.

[TheRitsman]

31q

Originally Posted by Chronamut

I love how noone factors in the increased amt of traffic and congestion this will cause - hamilton has issues with that as it is.. how is the city going to address the existing road infrastructure? You can't expand the lanes any more than they already are.. toronto has the subway.. we don't.. and LRT really wasn't going to help with that.

Increased traffic are things that put the pier 8 development on hold, as well as those 3 giant skyscraper condos along francis st in stoney creek. It's fine to have all this development, but the citys infrastructure has to be able to provide for it - otherwise its like providing blood to the heart through small veins - or having arteries clogged..

Firstly, I find it laughable that someone would consider Hamilton to have traffic issues. The roads here are so insanely overbuilt it's crazy. One ways on streets where is make absolutely no traffic engineering sense.

Secondly, LRT would have absolutely helped with this, and to be honest, proper transit does take up the place of traffic woes. If it is properly separated , traffic studies show people will move from cars to transit when roads become congested, and as transit fills and roads empty, the opposite will happen. Take a look here for a quick and fun breakdown of this phenomenon: https://youtu.be/RQY6WGOoYis

Thirdly, we need to stop building so much parking. Or at least reduce minimums so developers can choose the parking amounts. Downtown needs parking, yes, and so do most developments, but the fear of a 350 unit building being built with 0 parking stalls causing parking nightmare are overblown. The reality is that without 350 parking stalls there will be nowhere for those people to park and they will choose transit or other modes. That's why density along transit corridors is so important versus out in the boonies.

I appreciate your knowledge of architecture, so please appreciate my knowledge of traffic engineering and urban planning. My background isn't directly related to these, but I've studies these and been directly involved through work in both of these fields.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

31q

Firstly, I find it laughable that someone would consider Hamilton to have traffic issues. The roads here are so insanely overbuilt it's crazy. One ways on streets where is make absolutely no traffic engineering sense.

Secondly, LRT would have absolutely helped with this, and to be honest, proper transit does take up the place of traffic woes. If it is properly separated , traffic studies show people will move from cars to transit when roads become congested, and as transit fills and roads empty, the opposite will happen. Take a look here for a quick and fun breakdown of this phenomenon: https://youtu.be/RQY6WGOoYis

Thirdly, we need to stop building so much parking. Or at least reduce minimums so developers can choose the parking amounts. Downtown needs parking, yes, and so do most developments, but the fear of a 350 unit building being built with 0 parking stalls causing parking nightmare are overblown. The reality is that without 350 parking stalls there will be nowhere for those people to park and they will choose transit or other modes. That's why density along transit corridors is so important versus out in the boonies.

I appreciate your knowledge of architecture, so please appreciate my knowledge of traffic engineering and urban planning. My background isn't directly related to these, but I've studies these and been directly involved through work in both of these fields.

Noted and definitely appreciated - we all appreciate what each of us brings to the table here - but not to sway a healthy debate of course - however the concept that people will take more public transit I feel is also overblown - we all know politicians don't - and most people don't because it simply takes forever to get from a to b if you can simply drive to it. Hell I often take a taxi simply because getting somewhere relatively easy simply involves connecting to too many different buses and waiting too long between them. That and LRT wasn't even raised - it would have taken up existing laneways on king st and only went from one certain point to the other, when if it was simply a matter of having more public transportation, we could have simply brought more buses on board at more times.. but that LRT debate is another matter..

And there ARE bottleneck areas - areas like the entrance to downtown hamilton where things shrink to a single lane to get downtown and traffic already backs up.

As for the parking - I find the biggest issue is actually visitor parking - it's fine to live downtown and have a bike to get around but what about when someone out of town wants to visit? Parking garages do help in this regard but we still do need SOME public parking just for people who visit the city, or people who visit IN the city. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the fact all these areas are being filled in, but one has to look back in history, and ever since the automobile was INVENTED there have been areas all through the city for cars to park. I was only when they widened the lanes on king st that these areas disappeared historically. I just think that expecting people to navigate such a giant city through public transportation alone is a hopeful dream - people still love their cars.

and then there is the crumbling infrastructure UNDER the roads and utilities that have to provide for all this new density - I am not saying it is going to cripple the city, but they are things that must be kept in mind. It would be nice however if we did get to a point where so much is available locally that people can simply walk to where they need and not have to drive - but many still work outside the city..

and hamiltons one way and two way streets have always been confusing I will admit.

All points have merit here, and it's always good to toss them around. and you're probably right - we'll be good for a while. And the argument that we are simply refilling in existing density is a good point, although that density was probably more spread out originally. The days of ticker tape parades along king and james with people sitting on rooftops and leaning out their windows with all of downtown chock full of people may one day return



(sorry I couldn't find a downtown hamilton ticker tape parade pic offhand - although I know they exist)

[ChildishGavino]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Now THAT is a pipe dream.

I don't think that's strictly true, just that the density is a bit off. All the vacant storefront will have to be filled before they're knocked down and something 5x the size is put up. Even then, it'll take a while. We're lucky to have so many midsized storefronts available and built, even if they're derelect.

I'm not sure if Cannon st will lose it's slumliness in our lifetimes though...

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by ChildishGavino

I don't think that's strictly true, just that the density is a bit off. All the vacant storefront will have to be filled before they're knocked down and something 5x the size is put up. Even then, it'll take a while. We're lucky to have so many midsized storefronts available and built, even if they're derelect.

I'm not sure if Cannon st will lose it's slumliness in our lifetimes though...

Or barton st.. and it's as someone said - once an entire city is regentrified it becomes boring - it's that slumminess that adds character haha.. I suppose I can see the logic in that. I'd just prefer most of the city be brought back to its former glory, or something equivalent.

I actually know the area for this condo quite well growing up, as the apt building on jarvis st was for people with disabilities and my aunt lived there so we often looked out over this area.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I find it hard to believe that the lower city has the lowest population it has had in a century....there are soo many new developments and an influx of out of towners ... I believe that the lower city is growing and growing quickly

[craftbeerdad]

I'd put more stock into Barton being revitalized than Cannon. Barton has amazing stock of old buildings and architecture styles. It sure would be nice to see it restored in all its glory. It's conceivable in 10-20 years people will remiss about shady Barton stories versus that 'gentrified cool area.' Then again, who knows.

You have two areas that can swell (Ottawa ST and Barton Village). The more these areas extend, it will fill in the gaps. City council needs to fire up the incentives more so than currently.

Cannon has more hurdles, but I sure do love the bike lanes.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

I find it hard to believe that the lower city has the lowest population it has had in a century....there are soo many new developments and an influx of out of towners ... I believe that the lower city is growing and growing quickly

Well it does. It's because the residential neighbourhoods keep emptying out. Less and less rooming houses, more and more single detached dwellings occupied by 1-2 people with no kids. It means a declining population even if the built form remains the same.

For every new development that builds new units, there are two more houses that used to be split into a duplex that gets converted back to a single detached dwelling. Or two more basement suites removed and the space added to the primary residence. Or an apartment block that used to house immigrant families with 3-4 people a unit that empties out and is replaced by single people or a couple.

You add it all up and you get an overall shrinking population. Even in the 2016 census, the population of the lower city was down from the 2011 census.

The census recorded a net loss of 135 units in the lower city between 2011 and 2016, for example. During that same time, the population dropped even more, by 3,430 people.

I suspect this may have reversed by the 2021 census, but we will have to see. And even if it has, it will be a very long time before the lower city returns to the population it had in the 1950's.

https://www.hamilton.ca/sites/default/fi...vate-dwellings-community-2001-2016-2.pdf

This document shows the historical lower Hamilton population from 2001 to 2016. It has declined from 187,730 in 2001 to 176,815 in 2016. So about 9,000 less people lived in the lower city in 2016 than they did in 2001.

Presuming no further losses, which would be an incorrect assumption, you would need about 5,000 new apartment units to make up for the loss in the last 15 years. Yet alone the last 50.

[TheRitsman]

This is very true. The average size of groups in houses is decreasing. Where older parents used to live in with their children, now we put them in old folks homes, and older couples live in 4 bdrm houses together, or single widows live in them. Family sizes are also decreasing, and the downtown was hollowed out for parking lots. Toronto's Victoria "suburbs" were found to be 4 times the population density of a regular suburban area of the city. Hamilton isn't there yet where single detached homes have been divided up. It is starting though. I live in a triplex that used to be a 100 year old semi-detached that was divided in the last 5 years.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

I'd put more stock into Barton being revitalized than Cannon. Barton has amazing stock of old buildings and architecture styles. It sure would be nice to see it restored in all its glory. It's conceivable in 10-20 years people will remiss about shady Barton stories versus that 'gentrified cool area.' Then again, who knows.

You have two areas that can swell (Ottawa ST and Barton Village). The more these areas extend, it will fill in the gaps. City council needs to fire up the incentives more so than currently.

Cannon has more hurdles, but I sure do love the bike lanes.

Centre Mall will have to be rethought before that section of Ottawa and Barton will come around. They are still buikding suburban parking lots and drive thru franchises out that way. In my opinion, the city should bad surface parking and anything under 3 storeys on Barton from James to ParkDale, and Ottawa from Barton to King/Main.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

I'm sure a lot has changed since 2016 ... Just judging by my neighborhood...gage park ...it's all new young families.... Parents with stroller etc

[Chronamut]

I personally like the william thomas density - 5-6 stories of heritage fade with modern stuff sprouting set back from the roof - I don't like giant skyscrapers that encroach on the sidewalk and make you feel sardined in - there are tons of developments in the downtown that offer these opportunities and we are seeing it everywhere, which is encouraging

I really like what has been done in the king william/james st area - and think that should extend further. All those row houses on king bear the downtown entrance could be restored externally and have density added on top.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

I'm sure a lot has changed since 2016 ... Just judging by my neighborhood...gage park ...it's all new young families.... Parents with stroller etc

As I said i suspect that the 2021 census will show a reversal. But it’ll probably be a bounce back to perhaps 180,000 people in the lower city.. not 187,000+++.

Also, while the lower city is gentrifying a lot, it doesn’t mean the population is growing. Those yuppies with strollers likely replaced people of lower incomes, and are not net new population gains. Though they are higher income and probably more likely to drive...

[LikeHamilton]

Drove by this morning and the building is out of the ground.

[lachlanholmes]

Long time, no update. Here are pictures from this afternoon:

[ScreamingViking]

From yesterday's Spec (Jan 28): Cranes and construction on Hamilton’s skyline, by John Rennison

Kiwi cranes in the background of this photo.

[lachlanholmes]

Been about two months since the last update, here's some pictures from an hour ago. They've finished the fourth floor slab and are now finishing up the fifth floor slab and beginning the sixth. Pretty efficient forming going on here.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

A nice bit of gap fillage. Hope it turns out good.

Thanks for the update.