PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X - Page 93

wanderer34 · #**1841** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 8:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

New Broad and Washington proposal. Will post in the thread for the project as well:
http://www.hecphila.org/index_htm_files/...ashington-HEC%20Board%20Presentation.pdf

I've preferred the older, taller proposal anyways compared to the newer, shorter proposal. Not saying anything bad about the newer proposal, but I've always felt Philadelphia has always had an aversion to taller projects, and the older 2016 was feasibly better since it would've meant more density to a major intersection at South Philly.

I was hoping Lincoln Square would've been just a minor improvement, but I'm not sure how Philadelphia can seem to attract a lot of people with these smaller projects. I would love to see Philly grow to 2M people again, but like I said, the city has always been averse to taller projects for some strange reason.

Boku · #**1842** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 12:31 PM**

A couple of tidbits on the Sixers' proposal today. https://www.inquirer.com/business/76ers-...llentown-niz-taxes-subsidy-20200904.html

Apparently it's a $4 billion proposal, which is insane. But the Sixers are also being advised by State Senator Pat Browne, who is a Republican, which is important because they need state approval for this tax scheme if they are picked. And based on Vincent Hughes' comments, it seems like it would have bipartisan support at the state level.

Edit: And now that renderings from other proposals are being leaked, will we see the Sixers' soon?

Justin7 · #**1843** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 12:48 PM**

Seems to be popular here, but I find Hoffman & Associates plan repulsive. Complete incoherent mess visually. Less public benefit than the Sixers proposal. Still uses public tax dollars.

(This is not an endorsement of the Sixers plan.)

allovertown · #**1844** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 1:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderer34

I've preferred the older, taller proposal anyways compared to the newer, shorter proposal. Not saying anything bad about the newer proposal, but I've always felt Philadelphia has always had an aversion to taller projects, and the older 2016 was feasibly better since it would've meant more density to a major intersection at South Philly.

I was hoping Lincoln Square would've been just a minor improvement, but I'm not sure how Philadelphia can seem to attract a lot of people with these smaller projects. I would love to see Philly grow to 2M people again, but like I said, the city has always been averse to taller projects for some strange reason.

Maybe they could put a few ACCs up on the waterfront? A row of five would look pretty good.

PhillyDreamsReturns · #**1845** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 1:39 PM**

The “exciting unveiling” for Schuylkill Yards was an artist opening a store...unfollowing.

Larry King · #**1846** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 2:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin7

Seems to be popular here, but I find Hoffman & Associates plan repulsive. Complete incoherent mess visually. Less public benefit than the Sixers proposal. Still uses public tax dollars.

(This is not an endorsement of the Sixers plan.)

I agree but also have to factor in how likely things get built. The last thing we need is to hand this to a developer that spends 20 years trying and failing to build something. Their track record matters.

Boku · #**1847** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 2:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyDreamsReturns

The “exciting unveiling” for Schuylkill Yards was an artist opening a store...unfollowing.

Lol how dare they crush the hopes of a bunch of online skyscraper nerds.

Urbanthusiat · #**1848** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 2:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boku

Lol how dare they crush the hopes of a bunch of online skyscraper nerds.

I’m not sure that was the news they were teasing, so much as just highlighting other stuff that’s happening in the neighborhood as a marketing strategy. It’s just the word “exciting” is in both tweets which may have caused some confusion. If that was the news they were teasing, than that seems pretty dumb.

wanderer34 · #**1849** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 2:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by allovertown

Maybe they could put a few ACCs up on the waterfront? A row of five would look pretty good.

So be it!!! I'd rather have that than a dead underutilized waterfront!!!

mcgrath618 · #**1850** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 3:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

I’m not sure that was the news they were teasing, so much as just highlighting other stuff that’s happening in the neighborhood as a marketing strategy. It’s just the word “exciting” is in both tweets which may have caused some confusion. If that was the news they were teasing, than that seems pretty dumb.

FWIW they haven’t posted anything on Instagram yet (after their announcement of news to come), so I don’t think this is their “exciting news.”

City Wide · #**1851** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

I agree but also have to factor in how likely things get built. The last thing we need is to hand this to a developer that spends 20 years trying and failing to build something. Their track record matters.

Agreed. It almost seems that the City through it's agencies that are suppose to be guiding development along the river haven't learned from their past failures. Why pick any one plan if that plan is dependent on all sorts of possibilities that are big time maybe's, such as the Sixer's getting a State tax funding model that has only been used once before.

Why not allow all the plans to move forward at their own pace and if one of them gets to the point of having financing or some other benchmark that shows they are ready to proceed, then give that plan a small window, 6 months?, to move their concept to the next benchmark.

No more of this waiting 2 years for a hard plan to be developed, followed by another 2 years to test the waters to see if that plan is possible, only to come back and claim they were overly optimistic and now the plan needs to be scaled back. If a Target store (or whatever) looks like it makes sense to be in that location, more then one developer can show plans with room for a big box store. Its hardly a secret what the requirements for that are. Likewise with a hotel; at this point in the game it doesn't cost anything to claim you want to include one, the details and needs between brand X and brand Y aren't very great.

If DVPA or whoever is in charge do continue as planed and pick one developer, I hope they only give them a short time frame, say 18 months, to document how they plan to proceed rapidly and back that up with some kind of performance bond.

summersm343 · #**1852** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 6:12 PM**

Developer readies alternative arena site for 76ers in South Philadelphia

HELL YEAH! Now THIS is what I'm talking about! Can someone read/post the article since it's locked? Renderings in the article:

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...estId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=0

iheartphilly · #**1853** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 7:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

Developer readies alternative arena site for 76ers in South Philadelphia

HELL YEAH! Now THIS is what I'm talking about! Can someone read/post the article since it's locked? Renderings in the article:

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia...estId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_8&cx_artPos=0

Excerpt from article:

"Designed by CallisonRTKL, a Baltimore architectural firm that has done retail, residential, hospitality and other projects across the globe, Stadium Square would rise on 12 acres at 700 Packer Ave.
If rezoned, the property could accommodate upwards of 6.3 million square feet in a mix of uses — office, multifamily, educational, hospitality, retail and a 90,000-square-foot entertainment and conference complex. However, a more realistic figure would be 2 million to 2.5 million square feet, according to a marketing brochure for the project. The brochure sought to make a case for Stadium Square, provided detailed renderings of what it would look like, the breakdown of uses and the synergies that would be created by the mixed-use development. "
"What sets Philadelphia apart from all other cities is the stadiums' proximity to one another, within walkable distance of public transportation," it read.

Vince_ · #**1854** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 7:27 PM**

This is way too far from NRG Station to be even be considered. It's at least a 20 minute walk versus 5 minutes to Wells Fargo Center. Also what's the point of building a new stadium so close? Then we have 2 similar sized arenas within a mile? I don't get it. However, this complex is blueprint for what Cordish and Comcast Spectacor should be building in the lots around WFC.

Penn's Landing is a tough sell, I get it, but it's about the proximity to center city and access to some public transportation. 8th and Race, 8th and Market, Callowhill and Delaware Ave are much better locations for a stadium.

Groundhog · #**1855** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 8:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_

This is way too far from NRG Station to be even be considered. It's at least a 20 minute walk versus 5 minutes to Wells Fargo Center. Also what's the point of building a new stadium so close? Then we have 2 similar sized arenas within a mile? I don't get it. However, this complex is blueprint for what Cordish and Comcast Spectacor should be building in the lots around WFC.

Penn's Landing is a tough sell, I get it, but it's about the proximity to center city and access to some public transportation. 8th and Race, 8th and Market, Callowhill and Delaware Ave are much better locations for a stadium.

Agreed it's a little bit further, but put some people movers on the sidewalks and the distance isn't an issue.

Agreed with a bit of the redundancy between this and Wells Fargo, but you could also argue that there's plenty of redundancy here already - especially between the Linc and the Citizens Bank. It still works. Also, Wells Fargo is one of the most frequently used arenas in the country. Back in my ad agency days, their outdoor reps told us they had the 3rd most events (after MSG and the Staple Center) per year of any arena in the country. I can't find anything to back that up, but this puts them in the top 10 for revenue. This means there is a lot of demand, so it's possible you could have two concerts or games going at the same time - or tiered so that people could go to both.

allovertown · #**1856** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 8:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_

This is way too far from NRG Station to be even be considered. It's at least a 20 minute walk versus 5 minutes to Wells Fargo Center. Also what's the point of building a new stadium so close? Then we have 2 similar sized arenas within a mile? I don't get it. However, this complex is blueprint for what Cordish and Comcast Spectacor should be building in the lots around WFC.

Penn's Landing is a tough sell, I get it, but it's about the proximity to center city and access to some public transportation. 8th and Race, 8th and Market, Callowhill and Delaware Ave are much better locations for a stadium.

The biggest issue with a sixers arena here is the sixers don't want an arena here. This will never happen.

Urbanthusiat · #**1857** Posted **Sep 4, 2020, 9:10 PM**

Yeah it seems like a marketing play more than anything.... PSDC has been pitching their sites to developers for a while now and it seems nobody is biting. It’s a bad location for the Sixers and if they were interested, they wouldn’t need to do this public “hey what about us” thing. Seems more like they’re just putting it out there that they have a site near the stadiums with a lot of FAR available and they are willing sellers.

SEFTA · #**1858** Posted **Sep 5, 2020, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_

This is way too far from NRG Station to be even be considered. It's at least a 20 minute walk versus 5 minutes to Wells Fargo Center. Also what's the point of building a new stadium so close? Then we have 2 similar sized arenas within a mile? I don't get it. However, this complex is blueprint for what Cordish and Comcast Spectacor should be building in the lots around WFC.

Penn's Landing is a tough sell, I get it, but it's about the proximity to center city and access to some public transportation. 8th and Race, 8th and Market, Callowhill and Delaware Ave are much better locations for a stadium.

I don't understand this move at all.
A complete turn around.
I'm not optimistic on the look this arena will have.
I thought it would move closer to the station, not farther away.

allovertown · #**1859** Posted **Sep 5, 2020, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I don't understand this move at all.
A complete turn around.
I'm not optimistic on the look this arena will have.
I thought it would move closer to the station, not farther away.

It's not a turnaround. It's just irrelevant. A developer owns a parcel of land by the sports complex and saw the sixers want a new arena, so they're floating their land for the arena ostensibly, but really they're just taking an opportunity to market their land in general for any development, in a way that they knew would get them press for very little cost.

Nothing has changed on the sixers end. I can guarantee that unless harria and blitzer sell the team to someone else, the sixers will never build an arena here.

PHLtoNYC · #**1860** Posted **Sep 5, 2020, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Still a huge improvement over what's there now. I think it does look better in terms of fitting its context, but I have a feeling they're going to still nit pick the arches/floor to ceiling windows.
They'd probably prefer if they used brick horizontally to separate the changes in floor. If only the buildings in the historical photos were still there instead.

Build it! A shame the height decreased, but this is one of the best new projects I have seen Philadelphia. I hope a cool hotel brand would sign on to this as well, and possibly add a nice restaurant or coffee shop to an area that needs one.

I am sure this will somehow get derailed though

Also, do you or anyone know the status of the Dilworth House overbuild in Washington Square Park. That project passed all the hurdles I believe, but its been silent for a while...