The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Thanks, tell me more about how Indigenous people were utter savages.

Maybe you should put that on your resume or talk about it at work, if you have a job.

Say something obviously racist in the public sphere with consequences and then see how far your rationalizations take you.

Here's what I actually said:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Ah, maybe now we can chip away at some of the incoherence of SJW reasoning.

Are you suggesting that the utter savagery of pre-Colombian tribes and civilizations is inconsequential when it comes to addressing what you consider to be the innately racist ability of white Europeans to "dehumanize" people simply because the Europeans were more advanced and successful than those tribes and civilizations, some of whom died out?

The words "🞵🞵🞵🞵" and "genocide" are commonly bandied about with regard to the European arrival to and presence in the Americas. My use of the word "savage" to describe the tribes and civilizations here was an obvious reference to the ritual human sacrifice that was a widespread practice.

Not even the likes of you is stupid enough to suggest that ritual human sacrifice isn't savage, I suspect. I admit that I used that word intentionally as a provocation in reaction to your dreary, clichéd protestations of the original sin of European descendants in the New World.

It was 🞵🞵🞵 for tat: if you can (ridiculously) say that Europeans are/were so evil that they dehumanized indigenous and African peoples, then I can say that American tribes and civilizations were savage for practicing human sacrifice.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Here's what I actually said:



The words "🞵🞵🞵🞵" and "genocide" are commonly bandied about with regard to the European arrival to and presence in the Americas. My use of the word "savage" to describe the tribes and civilizations here was an obvious reference to the ritual human sacrifice that was a widespread practice.

Not even the likes of you is stupid enough to suggest that ritual human sacrifice isn't savage, I suspect. I admit that I used that word intentionally as a provocation in reaction to your dreary, clichéd protestations of the original sin of European descendants in the New World.

It was 🞵🞵🞵 for tat: if you can (ridiculously) say that Europeans are/were so evil that they dehumanized indigenous and African peoples, then I can say that American tribes and civilizations were savage for practicing human sacrifice.

But it's all a red herring because attempts to address systemic racism aren't (well, certainly shouldn't be) about assigning moral blameworthiness (especially not to individuals who have been dead for hundreds of years). It's about trying to remedy any continuing damage or adverse effects of those historic actions. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that pre-Columbus human sacrifices continues to have adverse effects on certain people or groups of people in modern societies.

[lio45]

Civilized people don't regularly practice human sacrifice.

(Be warned that I'll filibuster anyone who disagrees into submission, however long it takes. )

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Here's what I actually said:



The words "🞵🞵🞵🞵" and "genocide" are commonly bandied about with regard to the European arrival to and presence in the Americas. My use of the word "savage" to describe the tribes and civilizations here was an obvious reference to the ritual human sacrifice that was a widespread practice.

Not even the likes of you is stupid enough to suggest that ritual human sacrifice isn't savage, I suspect. I admit that I used that word intentionally as a provocation in reaction to your dreary, clichéd protestations of the original sin of European descendants in the New World.

It was 🞵🞵🞵 for tat: if you can (ridiculously) say that Europeans are/were so evil that they dehumanized indigenous and African peoples, then I can say that American tribes and civilizations were savage for practicing human sacrifice.

“Not even the likes of you is stupid enough” to believe the myth that human sacrifice was a widespread practice here.

There were a multitude of nations in North America and only a few practiced that, and not even in what we now know as Canada.

The same thing is true of people elsewhere, including Europe, and probably my own ancestors.

Your ethnocentric assumptions read like something out of a 1950s tv show. Learn something new.

Your need to defend European settlers from their widespread and common crimes by using something that was used to unfairly dehumanize their victims is part and parcel of the racism Canada was founded on. Some of us want to evolve beyond that and some of us obviously want to keep our head in the sand.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by lio45

Civilized people don't regularly practice human sacrifice.

(Be warned that I'll filibuster anyone who disagrees into submission, however long it takes. )

What a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 hero.

The myth of the civilized European lives on.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

But it's all a red herring because attempts to address systemic racism aren't (well, certainly shouldn't be) about assigning moral blameworthiness (especially not to individuals who have been dead for hundreds of years).

Attempts to "address systemic racism" are almost entirely about assigning moral blame and economic culpability to living European descendants. That's practically the entirety of the SJW argument, with "White Fragility" being one of the most spectacularly idiotic examples of that kind of thinking. It's a number one bestseller.

But you're right, they shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by Pavlov

It's about trying to remedy any continuing damage or adverse effects of those historic actions.

That part of the conversation gets overshadowed by the "original sin" side of it. It's practical and important. And...surprise, surprise...not everyone agrees on how these things should be remedied, if at all.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by lio45

Civilized people don't regularly practice human sacrifice.

(Be warned that I'll filibuster anyone who disagrees into submission, however long it takes. )

Civilised Europe practiced human sacrifice. Originally it was a means of letting go of people with disabilities for whom it was difficult to feed as well as those who failed their ordeals after being accused of committing a sin. Later it was largely relegated to those deemed criminal. And it wasn't until the 20th century that execution (a form of human sacrifice) was being banned in Europe, long after the Europeans encountered the people of the New World.

[rousseau]

Very nice. Very slippery. It's the European 🞵🞵🞵🞵 of the Americas, "we" are responsible for a "genocide" in the New World, but...

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

There were a multitude of nations in North America and only a few practiced that, and not even in what we now know as Canada.

...now suddenly anything below the Rio Grande is no longer part of that grand generalization.

It's very convenient how you use broad generalizations to characterize a whole continent of people, but if I do the same?

Not cool. I guess I must be a racist.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by lio45

Civilized people don't regularly practice human sacrifice.

(Be warned that I'll filibuster anyone who disagrees into submission, however long it takes. )

How can you determine whether that is a value judgement or not based on your own cultural beliefs? The subject of human sacrifice in the bible is given serious consideration and debate, and we take the bible as an accepted prototypical standard of moral guidance even today. How can you separate the accepted civility of collateral damage in warfare or pandemic from that of a form of accepted human sacrifice?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Civilised Europe practiced human sacrifice. Originally it was a means of letting go of people with disabilities for whom it was difficult to feed as well as those who failed their ordeals after being accused of committing a sin. Later it was largely relegated to those deemed criminal. And it wasn't until the 20th century that execution (a form of human sacrifice) was being banned in Europe, long after the Europeans encountered the people of the New World.

Without defending what we nowadays rightly deem to be the awful treatment of the less fortunate, what you describe is not human sacrifice.

Human sacrifice is regularly slaughtering babies to appease the god of the sun. It's not executing a convicted murderer (I don't morally agree with either).

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Very nice. Very slippery. It's the European 🞵🞵🞵🞵 of the Americas, "we" are responsible for a "genocide" in the New World, but...



...now suddenly anything below the Rio Grande is no longer part of that grand generalization.

It's very convenient how you use broad generalizations to characterize a whole continent of people, but if I do the same?

Not cool. I guess I must be a racist.

You are literally incapable of admitting any wrong or mistake. What a joke.

[lio45]

I originally wanted to say "civilized people don't regularly practice ritual human sacrifice", but ever since rousseau accused me of being too verbose a while ago, I'm making a conscious effort to cut some of the more optional words here and there.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

But it's all a red herring because attempts to address systemic racism aren't (well, certainly shouldn't be) about assigning moral blameworthiness (especially not to individuals who have been dead for hundreds of years). It's about trying to remedy any continuing damage or adverse effects of those historic actions. As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that pre-Columbus human sacrifices continues to have adverse effects on certain people or groups of people in modern societies.

Well what are these solutions? I'm not hearing any, it's all just arguing about whether systemic racism exists or not, and perhaps importing some US specific solutions to the Canadian discussion, adding little value.

[Truenorth00]

Can't even stand on a bridge in Ottawa without getting the cops called on you, if you're black. Say hi to Barrhaven Karen:

https://twitter.com/IceFresh2/status/1280214101516574725?s=20

[Hawrylyshyn]

Genuine question: is that video really a race issue? It seems more like a "social distancing to the extreme" no? As a white person I've had people scream and yell at me for being less than 6 feet away too

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Genuine question: is that video really a race issue? It seems more like a "social distancing to the extreme" no? As a white person I've had people scream and yell at me for being less than 6 feet away too

Have you had the cops called on you for not social distancing?

[Hawrylyshyn]

Personally no. Many white people have.. remember the snitch line? Just saying

[Truenorth00]

For just standing on the sidewalk?

They need to start charging people with filing false reports for calls like these.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Yup. And I agree they do. Wasting first responders' time and resources shouldn't be allowed to go unpunished

[Truenorth00]

The thing is there's a history of (mostly) white women calling the cops on minorities for minor infractions, always with the plausible deniability of, "I'm not racist. I just really, really care about the rules."

Read this account from a 911 operator on how often they get these calls. Having these people charged would be a good start on cutting down on this kind of behaviour.