The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just trying to wrap my head around the idea that just hearing certain words or seeing certain symbols is intolerably hurtful to some on the one hand, but that there is also some slack on the other. And how it's sometimes difficult to keep track of the interplay between the two. As Wendy Mesley found out.

And then there's this .... valid word that can't be used anymore just because ...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by shreddog

And then there's this .... valid word that can't be used anymore just because ...

I have noticed that some smart-alecks have deliberately used this word, in commenting cases where people have been tarred and feathered for using the other word.

Oh well, unintended consequences.

[Acajack]

Trying hard to think of the way forward for the CBC, which has been shaken I am sure both by the Wendy Mesley and Christine Genier stories.

In terms of indigenous voices anyway, I think that anyone who listens to the English radio network will notice that they are very present, in a proportion that is much greater than their overall share of the Canadian population. (This is arguably justified, when you consider that for many decades it was as if indigenous people barely existed.)

When it comes to those voices being censored, I also don't feel that that's the case, unless we are mixing up "voices of the CBC" and "voices heard on the CBC". For the latter, quite clearly they are free to speak their minds and that's what they generally do. Any holdback is likely self-imposed and for personal reasons.

In terms of the former, which is what Genier was, things get a bit more complicated in terms of how free they should be to speak their minds. The CBC brass is likely in crisis mode right now, and that guy (Fenlon?)'s questioning of journalistic guidelines betrays a certain panic.

Certainly more on-air hosts and journalists who are indigenous or from minorities would be a good thing, but this does not necessarily mean that they would or should be there to tell "their side of the story".

I looked up the demographics of the Yukon and it's about 25% indigenous. When you're the host of the morning show which is likely the most listened to program on a public broadcaster, you're doing a show for 100% of the population, not the 25% who are indigenous and even less so the percentage that your specific First Nation makes up.

I have no idea what Christine Genier's specific expectations were relative to her CBC job, but based on her comments and statements it does appear they may have been unrealistic.

I honestly do not know how the CBC can address this, short of creating distinct indigenous services - which might be solutions but on the other hand it will only leave people more siloed and the danger is that the majority will only become more deaf to indigenous issues.

Interestingly enough, in Ottawa the host of the CBC morning or afternoon show is or was a black gentleman. I call him that because I've dealt with him professionally over the years and he is a really nice guy. Since it is radio I suppose many of his listeners don't even know he is part of a minority. (I was recently surprised to the learn the same of Quebec radio host Alain Jean-Mary, who recently switched to TV. Though yeah I could have clued in with his last name).

Anyway the Ottawa CBC radio guy hosts the shows (as he should) for the entire Ottawa population, and not just the 6-8% of the population that is black. Perhaps he puts a bit more of a personal touch into stories that touch the black community - I don't know. But he certainly doesn't use his position to consistently play the role of activist for black Ottawans.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I honestly do not know how the CBC can address this, short of creating distinct indigenous services - which might be solutions but on the other hand it will only leave people more siloed and the danger is that the majority will only become more deaf to indigenous issues.

To this end, the CBC already has an Indigenous news section on their website and specific programming like Unreserved. Indigenous issues do of course feature often on other programmes and let's not forget APTN exists to explicitly to fill this need.

There's hardly a paucity of Indigenous programming on Canadian public networks these days. I think people like Genier thrive off playing the victim and crave the sympathy, and will continue to do so, abetted by the reflexive political correctness at the CBC.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I should note that there is an American poster in the Current Events section of SSP who has a swastika-shaped "45" with a red strikeout circle and bar over it, as his avatar, and no one seems to bat an eye. It's not technically a swastika but it sure as hell looks like one when you look at it quickly. This is supposedly an anti-Trump symbol.

So your last 5 pages of whining over not being able to say the N-word is because you are salty over how fellow Trump-loving bosom friend Lio got suspended for giddily suggesting that the guy with the below avatar might slit his wrists after the election?

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In that case, I'll let you use it in public when the opportunity next arises (...). Pesonally, I'll stick to "N-word".

Fun story - I once heard Archbishop Desmond Tutu use the word in a sermon in Cape Town. He certainly knew how to keep the crowd from dozing off ...

Less fun story (how far we've come chapter) - The family of one of my parents had a black cocker spaniel when they were young (1930s, Kitchener). Anyone care to guess what the dog's name was?

Did that dog star in the "Dam Busters!"



Edit to add: No, the Dam Buster dog was a Lab.

[JHikka]

If you're all looking to use the n-word ad nauseum in every day speech feel free to pick up Mandarin - it's literally a filler word akin to 'um' or 'uh'.

The last few pages of this thread have been exhausting to read.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If you're all looking to use the n-word ad nauseum in every day speech feel free to pick up Mandarin - it's literally a filler word akin to 'um' or 'uh'.

The last few pages of this thread have been exhausting to read.

You've got everyone's bottom line figured out!

[MonctonRad]

VOLDIMORT!!!! There, I've said it, I feel better now.........

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You've got everyone bottom line figured out!

But how will this newfound linguistic freedom affect franco-Ontarians and their cultural displacement away from their linguistic brethren, particularly in relation to francophones in the Prairies and their historical ties to Quebec?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

But how will this newfound linguistic freedom affect franco-Ontarians and their cultural displacement away from their linguistic brethren, particularly in relation to francophones in the Prairies and their historical ties to Quebec?

And if I told you guys what the official word for a ghost writer is in French, you'd probably lose your marbles.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And if I told you guys what the official word for a ghost writer is in French, you'd probably lose your marbles.

I wonder how this will affect the CBC moving forward. Only time will tell.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You've got everyone's bottom line figured out!

Let's do a few pages of fantastically uncharitable interpretations and performative moral disappointment until another news story comes along.

[someone123]

Rally for Ejaz Choudry who was killed in Missisauga (1,200 km away, in a place policed by another police force). The crowd chants in unison "abolish police, no justice no peace" while several people wave BLM signs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CB6L88mn0BI/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Rally for Ejaz Choudry who was killed in Missisauga (1,200 km away, in a place policed by another police force). The crowd chants in unison "abolish police, no justice no peace" while several people wave BLM signs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CB6L88mn0BI/

If nothing else these events do confirm Marshall McLuhan's global village theory quite evocatively. (As if any further proof was needed.)

[savevp]

There's probably a wide consensus that police in Canada are often unprepared or incapable of dealing with mentally ill, violent people. There's also probably wide consensus that police militarization is an issue in Canada as well as the US. But the above protestors (not all, but some) make irrational, extreme demands and seek to pit society against the police. BLM and others try to make the spate of police killings about race rather than the fact most involve armed people experiencing mental health episodes. So rather than dialogue about mental health training and de-escalation for the police, we quickly slip into fractious echo chambers about alleged structural police racism, based off perceptions of American policing. It's why we don't see Indigenous lives Matter. Even the 'defund the police' slogan is deliberately provocative and inflammatory, and undoubtedly harms the possibility of consensus around constructive police reform. BLM, in large part, are not interested in dialogue but prefer the destruction of current Western society. Gentler voices, if they were given airtime, might de-escalate the growing cultural divide across the West.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If nothing else these events do confirm Marshall McLuhan's global village theory quite evocatively. (As if any further proof was needed.)

Mostly I'm wondering how you could consider it a strawman to argue that this group is looking to abolish police, possibly while declaring 100% support for them, when they are literally chanting "abolish police".

Getting hard data is difficult but I am pretty sure the number of killings by this police force in recent years has been 0 (Gabriel Wortman was killed by RCMP outside the city, not HPD). As far as I can tell the last fatal incident that could be tied to this police force was in 1980 (the killing of Albert Hollett; one officer got convicted of manslaughter as a result). I think metro Halifax might have had 2 murders in total last year. 2 total homicides, not killings by police. It seems strange to want to abolish this police force, which may have a flawless record of unjustifiable killings during the period when most of these protesters have been alive, because another police force killed somebody.

But I think as you suggest this is just how it works. It's an ultra low information environment driven by international social media. See something shared online, get mad, show up in person to protest for the victims. These people can't easily get to the Mississauga police HQ so their local one will have to do.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Mostly I'm wondering how you could consider it a strawman to argue that this group is looking to abolish police, possibly while declaring 100% support for them, when they are literally chanting "abolish police".

I take it by "you" here you mean "someone", rather than me.

Originally Posted by someone123

Getting hard data is difficult but I am pretty sure the number of killings by this police force in recent years has been 0 (Gabriel Wortman was killed by RCMP outside the city, not HPD). As far as I can tell the last fatal incident that could be tied to this police force was in 1980 (the killing of Albert Hollett; one officer got convicted of manslaughter as a result). I think metro Halifax might have had 2 murders in total last year, that's total homicides, not killings by police. It seems strange to want to abolish this police force because another police force killed somebody.

Hidden agendas, maybe?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

But I think as you suggest this is just how it works. It's an ultra low information environment driven by international social media. See something shared online, get mad, show up in person to protest for the victims. These people can't easily get to the Mississauga police HQ so their local one will have to do.

The heightened degree of "caring" for stuff that's very far away (and even alien in some cases) is what's striking to me.

(Insert video of BLM marches in Tokyo and Seoul here.)

Under normal circumstances I might view people looking beyond their little personal self-absorbed cocoons to be a positive thing, but these days I am not so sure...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I wonder how this will affect the CBC moving forward. Only time will tell.

Actually, that might be a great angle to further prove that Quebec/francophones/those guys over there, y'now... are more racist...

You might be on to something!