The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't agree with stopping people due to no reason because of racial profiling, but you should realize just how many real criminals who have warrants for their arrest get brought in due to routine traffic stops. Or just running plates of cars driving in front of you.

I believe Clifford Olson was finally apprehended thanks to a routine traffic stop. IIRC he had a kid with him in the vehicle who would have been victim number 12.

Not certain having a police office parked along the road running random plates is a ineffective use of resources. Perhaps a more effective way of doing that is to have a computer do it. Such technology exists.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At the very least, it is widely viewed as the only good way to be.

I mean, why would anyone not want to be like "us"?

Indeed.

[MolsonExport]

The top of the previous page is a veritable dog's breakfast.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

Not surprised at all

Of course you're not surprised, you already know I'm extremely tolerant!

BTW, that guy who got called the Voldemort Word a few times by someone who was in my employment (so technically, representing me) (and still is), would tell you, if you asked, that lio45 is a very generous person who keeps going out of his way to be helpful to him. The only people in the entire universe who might possibly think I'm racist in the slightest are unhinged online trolls who don't know me at all. I am very unsurprised that you would fall into that one group, obviously.

[urbandreamer]

Are you in the construction industry? I do recall some colourful language used by day labourer types in Vancouver years ago, often directly to another persons face eg First Nations or Chinese. And they would reply in kind ha. Living in a SRO in the downtown eastside you realize that although the language used is often racist the speakers aren't necessarily racist ... lots of interracial relationships, camaraderie and drinking and doing drugs together.

Is Cracker racist? The Jamaicans used to say that to me. "Yo cracka get the super on the line."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by casper

Not certain having a police office parked along the road running random plates is a ineffective use of resources. Perhaps a more effective way of doing that is to have a computer do it. Such technology exists.

That's pretty much what I was referring to. Some police cars are equipped with tech that scans all the plates in the vicinity for expired plates or warrants for the registered owner.

But if you have an unarmed green hornet ticket guy (aubergine, technically "eggplant" in French) doing that, is he really going to bring in Clifford Olson?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

The French - and by that I mean the French of France who are the ones who set the bar, much like Americans are setting our bar - have a strange relationship with the concept of race.

There's no official recordkeeping of ethnicity in their census, and while that's a hangover from the fact that France was occupied by Nazis, and the English speaking countries weren't, it's perplexing why this persists 75 years later. France seems to be suffering the most from the post-colonial blues of any European country; it would be useful to have some recordkeeping of marginalization and its effects.
.

Yeah well they would argue that what is actually more racist is categorizing people based on skin colour and/or ethnicity.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah well they would argue that what is actually more racist is categorizing people based on skin colour and/or ethnicity.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Latin Americans often use the same evasion.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Latin Americans often use the same evasion.

Under the "they would argue" file again...

One view of this is that the move towards a colour-blind society requires at the very least that the state stop categorizing its people according to their race.

I don't think anyone in France or in Peru (where Alberto Fujimori's nickname is El Chino) would argue that their societies are post-racial and colour-blind.

But I don't think the more PC places like Canada and the U.S. can make that claim either.

For all their flaws, Central and South American societies seem more "fused". This is perhaps best embodied by the approach to surnames. I remember meeting a Brazilian whose last name was Kuster, which was very German-sounding to me. Being Acajack, I steered the conversation in the direction of probing for German roots. He was a bit befuddled (though remained good natured) and told me: "no, Kuster's a Brazilian name, that's it". I think he was a bit puzzled by the notion that his name could be anything but Brazilian.

I would categorize this as just a one-off but I've had similar experiences with people from other countries in the region with widely varying names, and almost without exception, in their minds and everyone else's their surnames regardless of what they sound like, seamlessly match what's on their passport.

I don't think Canadians, or even most Americans, have much of a concept of what a Canadian or an American surname would be. Or what wouldn't be.

Kuster in Canada would clearly be considered a German name.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

AOC is blaming overfunding of the military for the militarization of police forces in the U.S. She's claiming that if there weren't spare tanks lying around police forces wouldn't be getting them. If people start calling for cuts to the military given the current state of the world we're screwed. Police forces in Canada could easily handle cuts to their budgets but our military needs a big increase and much better weapons.

This is a situation that is particular to the US where the military is forced to accept kit just for the sake of maintaining the defence industrial base or more usually just for the sake of maintaining jobs. Not valid military necessity. As a result, surplus equipment is then parted out and sometimes given to police forces.

We don't have anywhere close to the same situation in Canada and strict laws on military equipment ending up in civilian hands (including the police).

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by milomilo

The American armed forces being over funded and other militaries being underfunded are two entirely separate things and can both be true at the same time. What AOC, probably correctly, says about the US military is irrelevant to Canada or other countries.

There are also surplus equipment that makes sense to turnover. Old helicopter, rescue boat or radios makes sense.

Part of the problem in such debates is also ignorance on the equipment in question. I've seen arguments that CS gas and hollow point ammunition are not allowed for warfare so they should not be allowed for policing. That's a POV based on ignorance of what their impact is and why they are forbidden in combat, but appropriate for policing.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Under the "they would argue" file again...

One view of this is that the move towards a colour-blind society requires at the very least that the state stop categorizing its people according to their race.

I don't think anyone in France or in Peru (where Alberto Fujimori's nickname is El Chino) would argue that their societies are post-racial and colour-blind.

But I don't think the more PC places like Canada and the U.S. can make that claim either.

We live in interesting times.

We can decide what gender we want to be, despite our sex being quite genetically determined (with a few unusual exceptions).

It is politically incorrect to identify as a 'race' we aren't, despite the genetics being much more murky on that point. Then that brings up what the concept of 'race' is really. Mostly, race is just a euphemism for skin colour and features as far as I can tell.

Then there's ethnicity. You have Italian-Canadians who are three generations removed from Italy, can't speak more than a handful of words of Italian, love hockey, yet are very "Viva Italia!" come the World Cup. They're very proud of their Italianness without a hint of the irony that - aside from the whole tenuous genetic link - they've basically no interaction with Italian culture writ large.

Where does that link fade? I guess it's up to the individual to decide. I hardly consider myself anything but Canadian despite where my ancestors came from or what surname I've been labeled with.

[Truenorth00]

We need to keep in mind the differences with respect to the history of policing between the two countries. In Canada, our national police force was effectively a frontier authority and paramilitary force. Beyond that we urbanized earlier in our history and went to city police forces. We never had segregation here either. Compare that to the US where the earliest police forces in the US that were fugitive slave capture outfits or anti-union organizations (Pinkerton). And then for most of the 20th century helped enforce segregation and Jim Crow laws against African Americans. That history most assuredly colours how disadvantaged minorities in the US view law enforcement.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Do not ever get tired of trying to pull this same stupid act over and over? Where did I say AOC said the Canadian military needs to be cut? Pay attention because this topic is a lot more complicated than what Milo thinks it is.

The U.S. military is not drastically overfunded. It's just funded a lot better than any other military but that does not mean it's overfunded. Or are you and Milo okay with having Putin and Xi as dual masters? I'm not which is why I'm advocating for a huge strengthening of our military before copycat clueless protesters here start asking for the same thing AOC and her band of nutcases are asking for in America.

You literally posted the 2 things back to back. In an attempt to confuse the reader, or you are confused yourself.

The US military is totally overfunded. They could cut $100B tomorrow with no noticeable changes.

Xi and Putin are conducting information warfare. If recent years are any indication, the US is already cooked on that front.

Nobody is copying AOC's talking point in a Canadian context. Stop listening to conspiracy theorists.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

We live in interesting times.

We can decide what gender we want to be, despite our sex being quite genetically determined (with a few unusual exceptions).

It is politically incorrect to identify as a 'race' we aren't, despite the genetics being much more murky on that point. Then that brings up what the concept of 'race' is really. Mostly, race is just a euphemism for skin colour and features as far as I can tell.

Then there's ethnicity. You have Italian-Canadians who are three generations removed from Italy, can't speak more than a handful of words of Italian, love hockey, yet are very "Viva Italia!" come the World Cup. They're very proud of their Italianness without a hint of the irony that - aside from the whole tenuous genetic link - they've basically no interaction with Italian culture writ large.

Where does that link fade? I guess it's up to the individual to decide. I hardly consider myself anything but Canadian despite where my ancestors came from or what surname I've been labeled with.

One thing that is often overlooked is that "race" is often - or maybe primarily - a question of behaviour. Of behaviour that is generally associated with the way a person looks.

If I think of the many Chinese kids adopted by Québec families, there generally isn't anything culturally or behaviourally Chinese about them. So in that sense their race is irrelevant. An Anglo-Canadian dude like Dashan who lives and works in China is arguably a lot more "Chinese" than they are, and there is nothing racial about it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But I don't think the more PC places like Canada and the U.S. can make that claim either.

I think there is a difference between the reality on the ground and the online rhetoric or activist echo chambers. Canada is very diverse and people get along fine in most situations.

And some of the least privileged people, the working poor, tend to be a lot quieter than the humanities undergrads who writhe around in agony over the injustices they suffer when they're not criticizing the cafeteria food that is fed to them or checking their bank balance to see that the e-transfer from mom came through.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

One thing that is often overlooked is that "race" is often - or maybe primarily - a question of behaviour. Of behaviour that is generally associated with the way a person looks.

In the bad old days race and religion were imposed on individuals. Your rights depended on the genetic and legal connections you could prove to other individuals in the hierarchy. People living in this system used words like "octoroon".

Woke race activists seem to be inadvertently bringing back this type of thinking and intense awareness of race.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think there is a difference between the reality on the ground and the online rhetoric or activist echo chambers. Canada is very diverse and people get along fine in most situations.

I don't disagree with that.

And while I think that Canada is among the gold standards for this, people abroad can and do point to blemishes on our record. And it's not hard to find some doozies.

I'd also add that most people getting along fine is the norm in a lot of countries that Canadians might point the finger at. Including the U.S. BTW. I have been to the U.S. multiple times in something like 35-40 states, and I can say I've never found that the predominant vibe was that black people and white people can't stand each other.

I know there are tensions and that they are probably worse than in Canada, but those types of tensions aren't absent from Canada either.

Similarly, if you go to France yes there are issues bubbling under the surface, but in real life you see multiracial groups of young boys playing soccer together, or black girls with hijabs shopping with white girls without anything on their heads...

Everyone has their problems but in most places people aren't at each other's throats. At least not most of the time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

In the bad old days race and religion were imposed on individuals. Your rights depended on the genetic and legal connections you could prove to other individuals in the hierarchy. People living in this system used words like "octoroon".

Woke race activists seem to be inadvertently bringing back this type of thinking and intense awareness of race.

Funny how we've gone from advocating for a colour-blind society to a colour-obsessive society. And they would have us believe that that's progress.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For all their flaws, Central and South American societies seem more "fused". This is perhaps best embodied by the approach to surnames. I remember meeting a Brazilian whose last name was Kuster, which was very German-sounding to me. Being Acajack, I steered the conversation in the direction of probing for German roots. He was a bit befuddled (though remained good natured) and told me: "no, Kuster's a Brazilian name, that's it". I think he was a bit puzzled by the notion that his name could be anything but Brazilian.

Yes, you will see a sizeable group of people in Brazilian of obvious Germanic descent. South America was a popular place for them to emigrate post-WW2 for various reasons. Perhaps that also connects with a desire to think less of their German roots.