The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Interesting to read all the posts from you and TrueNorth about how everyone gets along great.

Both of you seem to have issues with certain demographics in our society (francophones in your case).

I guess you guys keep your views to yourselves when you're with these types of people.

All of which is great for "harmony", I realize!

Haha, one poke at francophones really got to you eh?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nah. More like our views aren't actually that far outside the mainstream for our peer groups. It's just jarring to you because this forum's demographics skew whiter, male, older, etc. So Warren and me stand out here....

I can absolutely tell the generational, ethnic, and urban-rural profiles on this sub. I guarantee you that most of your views would be viewed as out of touch with the mostly white twentysomething military officers I work with, who would in theory be more conservative than their peers. 3:1 Anglo-Franco split. I daresay the Francos in that group would be most shocked at your views. But you sound absolutely typical and unremarkable to me for your age. Despite all the posturing about that Quebecois uniqueness I would bet money that you're closer to the average 50 something Anglo-Ontarian than the average 30 yr old Quebecer, on most issues.

Since you seem to have a gift for figuring people out based on SSP postings, please tell which of my (assumed) views would be shocking to 30-year-old Quebecers...

I am all "ears" figuratively.

I

[rousseau]

From that article:

Polls have found that younger Americans overwhelmingly favor a cautious approach to getting back to normal — and are more worried about the virus. This includes many young Republicans, ages 18 to 49, who were far more likely than Republicans 50 and older to say the worst of the outbreak is yet to come, according to a Pew Research Center poll last month.

“This is really the problem with Gen X and baby boomers,” Mr. Howe said. “They’ve championed this kind of individualism. They’ve championed thinking less about the community.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/us/politics/coronavirus-republicans-trump.html

Don't know if I agree about lumping Gen X in with the boomers, but regardless, if this reflection on younger Republicans being more amenable to thinking in terms of community is true to any degree, then Americans really are experiencing an epochal sea change.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Haha, one poke at francophones really got to you eh?

No, you actually have a bit of a history with that stuff.

"Francophones are more xenophobic"

"It's annoying as a Canadian to go to Quebec and that everything is in French"

I just find ironic when people who are all preachy about intolerance, profiling and stereotyping actually do this type of stuff themselves. And then fold themselves into all sorts of shapes to try and justify it.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

But how does it follow from this that we should "adjust" for past wrongs through policing?

I agree. Which is why I specifically said I don't think we have the same issues with policing in Canada.....

I was talking about FN issues in the broader sense that this is probably going to be our challenge in Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Are you sure this isn't the result of prejudice? You decide what the white 50 year old male opinion is and people with that opinion go in that bin.

I don't feel like I have a good grasp on the demographics here. Unless people tell me how old they are or what their background is it's hard to tell.

I have stated that I am "around 50" and that I "look white". Which of course doesn't mean that what he is doing isn't prejudiced.

As I said to Warren, it's ironic when these guys do this.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No, you actually have a bit of a history with that stuff.

"Francophones are more xenophobic"

I was pointing out Quebec tends to be more xenophobic, and suggesting Francophones as a possible source. Don't put things in quotes that aren't quotes.

Originally Posted by Acajack

"It's annoying as a Canadian to go to Quebec and that everything is in French"

Where did I say this? I have experienced plenty of prejudice as an English person in Quebec. All minor stuff, but still annoying.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I just find ironic when people who are all preachy about intolerance, profiling and stereotyping actually do this type of stuff themselves. And then fold themselves into all sorts of shapes to try and justify it.

Sure, glad you're here to police all of us.

[MolsonExport]

I definitely feel my views are closer to a typical educated 30-year old Quebecker than a 50-year old Ontarian (which I am, on the nose, although born and bred in Quebec). I am definitely less (socially) conservative than the typical white cis-gender male Ontarian of my age. which is not to say that I am left-wing (however, in the West, the political ground has shifted to the right, but there are encouraging signs that it may be moving back to the centre)

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I definitely feel my views are closer to a typical educated 30-year old Quebecker than a 50-year old Ontarian (which I am, on the nose, although born and bred in Quebec). I am definitely less (socially) conservative than the typical white cis-gender male Ontarian of my age.

I've always seen this type of thing as a far more urban/rural divide. People self-sort (move) as they age.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I agree. Which is why I specifically said I don't think we have the same issues with policing in Canada.....

I was talking about FN issues in the broader sense that this is probably going to be our challenge in Canada.

I have interacted with a number of people in leadership positions in first nations communities. Policing has always been an issue and conitnues to be an issue. The nature of the problem is very different in Canada and the solutions are likely going to be very different from what has happened in the US. I get the impression we have probably been better at resolving it than others.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

"There's also the landless Qualipu band. That will end up with something between 11,000 and 140,000 members," - How is this possible, with NL's population, to reach 140,000 more than one in four Nflders would have to be aboriginal? That sounds pretty bogus to me.

The Federal Government agreed with your assessment.

The creation of a unique Newfoundland aboriginal band meant to help rectify historical injustices against Mi'kmaq has prompted anger and confusion, as tens of thousands of people receive notice they have been rejected as founding members.

More than 100,000 people applied to be founding members of the Qalipu First Nation Band, but the Department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada announced Tuesday that only 18,044 are eligible.

In some cases, people who were already accepted as members will see their Indian status revoked. In others, family members of successful applicants were themselves rejected.

Qalipu Chief Brendan Mitchell said these sorts of "anomalies" are perplexing the community. He said it raises questions about the enrolment process.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat...band-its-discriminatory/article33925034/

[JHikka]

Can we make sure to keep this thread on topic? This isn't a thread for posturing about what users are or aren't like.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

For a lot of life outcomes, there is another variable that correlates more strongly than race does. For example, having 2 stable parents for your whole childhood is much more important than what race(s) you belong to. The level of educational attainment and income of your parents matters a lot too.

I think a lot of disadvantaged minorities just don't get as much personal support, on average, as individuals. This definitely impacts indigenous people in Canada since many are faced either with staying in the poor community they were born in or moving away from their family support.

BTW it can be similar for a poor white person who comes from a trailer and was raised by a single parent in some remote town. Light coloured skin is not a magic ticket to prosperity.

Police are not the tool for tackling these issues.

These are good points though a significant part of the situation is attributable to governmental policies, past and present. Residential segregation that was enabled by blockbusting and redlining with complicit governments at various levels.

Also of course the way public schools are funded in the U.S. is a complex web that can only have originally been designed to discriminate against poorer communities, many of them African-American.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by someone123

Are you sure this isn't the result of prejudice? You decide what the white 50 year old male opinion is and people with that opinion go in that bin.

I don't feel like I have a good grasp on the demographics here. Unless people tell me how old they are or what their background is it's hard to tell.

Dude has very similar opinions to a lot of 50-something bosses and co-workers I've had. It's not the first time we've heard the same arguments.

As for it being "prejudice.....really? People's opinions are often are a function of who they are, where they live, their station in life. The whole reason statistical trends exist. Do a private forum demographics survey. There might be a surprises. But I think we can broadly guess which members will fall where.

We are the sum of our parts. And those parts certainly play into how issues are perceived. I don't think it's an accident that some members are more fixated on the violent aspects of these protests or dismissing them immediately as entirely Americanism.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Don't know if I agree about lumping Gen X in with the boomers, but regardless, if this reflection on younger Republicans being more amenable to thinking in terms of community is true to any degree, then Americans really are experiencing an epochal sea change.

Americans are going through a demograhic sea change, anyway. Only 54% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 were white in 2017, and by the mid-2040s the white proportion of Americans will be sub-50% (but still largest of all groups). When users here speak of the 'status quo' for Americans, and that the US serves the majority of the population 'well', I interpret it to mean that the US serves whites well, particularly wealthy whites. As the proportion of non-whites increases we will increasingly see events like what is currently unfolding if systemic and political changes are not enacted upon and enforced in the coming years. POTUS has added gas to the fire but that fire was going to happen sooner or later regardless just based on demographic and socio-economic trending.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_RAA.asp

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Americans are going through a demograhic sea change, anyway. Only 54% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 were white in 2017, and by the mid-2040s the white proportion of Americans will be sub-50% (but still largest of all groups). When users here speak of the 'status quo' for Americans, and that the US serves the majority of the population 'well', I interpret it to mean that the US serves whites well, particularly wealthy whites. As the proportion of non-whites increases we will increasingly see events like what is currently unfolding if systemic and political changes are not enacted upon and enforced in the coming years. POTUS has added gas to the fire but that fire was going to happen sooner or later regardless just based on demographic and socio-economic trending.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_RAA.asp

I think it's a mistake to lump everyone non-white in together. Speaking in generalities, the U.S. also serves Indo-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans, African-born Americans and a significant chunk of Hispanics "well". The number of intergenerational African-Americans that the U.S. serves "well" is also often underestimated ISTM.

The political stars may indeed align the way you are predicting, but I am not sure there is the needed solidarity across ethno-cultural groups down there. For protesting George Floyd's death? Sure. But for upsetting the apple cart? Hmmm.

In any event, the narrative that whites are all living the high life in the U.S. and everyone with a different skin tone is living in shit, is a total fallacy.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

POTUS has added gas to the fire but that fire was going to happen sooner or later regardless just based on demographic and socio-economic trending.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/raceindicators/indicator_RAA.asp

Bush era Republicans saw the writing on the wall and spent a lot of time and money courting the Hispanic vote.

Trump's rhetoric was an unbelievable blow to that.

Time will tell, but it's even possible that demographics have shifted enough in the last 4 years to seal Trump's fate, regardless of his non-stop fuck ups.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In any event, the narrative that whites are all living the high life in the U.S. and everyone with a different skin tone is living in shit, is a total fallacy.

Good thing this is a strawman nobody really put forward.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Bush era Republicans saw the writing on the wall and spent a lot of time and money courting the Hispanic vote.

Trump's rhetoric was an unbelievable blow to that.

When history looks back on this, one of the biggest blunders of the era will be how Trump lost the Hispanic vote for Republicans for a generation.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In any event, the narrative that whites are all living the high life in the U.S. and everyone with a different skin tone is living in shit, is a total fallacy.

Of course, but I don't think it's difficult to argue that life in the US is better if you're white and far better if you're wealthy and white. Of course there are also poor and disadvantaged whites, but i'm painting with a pretty wide and generalized brush.