The not so Great Racism in Canada Thread

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Yeah. He may not be old. But that is the cliched Boomer state of mind right there. In my two decades in the military alone, I'm amazed at how diverse the force is. And those privates and 2LTs from different backgrounds, upbringings, etc all seem to not just get along but are actually friends. See the same in elementary schools, high schools and universities all over the country. I see kids forming friendships over common interests everyday.

I was in the reserves for many years and I agree. Particularly at various training courses with mismatches of people from all places in Canada and walks of life.

There's a stereotype of somebody who joins the military, and there are those types, but they are the minority. It's remarkable to see the facebook updates of these people years later and where they are at.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, it's pretty clear that the U.S. has become or is at least fast becoming the secondary "domestic" culture for most of the western world.

Not surprisingly, Canada is much further along than any other country, and here the U.S. is arguably already even the "top level" of the domestic culture. Canadian matters are the minor leagues by comparison.

This is true. I hate to say it, but Indigenous people in Canada have as raw a deal as anyone. I mean, as vid likes to remind us, there are many northern communities without the basic necessity of clean drinking water.

If people want to march in the streets over something that strikes way more relevant to Canada than issues related to the treatment of black citizens by various arms of the United States government.

But Stephen Colbert, CNN and the New York Times don't talk about the things happening in Northern Ontario or wherever, so as a result no one really gives it much thought. Which, I suppose, works for many as it keeps a lid on things.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No, as with everything of consequence for the past half century, it reflects the Boomer ethos. As we have dominated in life, we will determine, where possible, the time and method of our departure. Millennials are simply the tool. I sense little or no reticence to playing the required role.

If you want to be pedantic, technically Generation X was the tool.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is true. I hate to say it, but Indigenous people in Canada have as raw a deal as anyone. I mean, as vid likes to remind us, there are many northern communities without the basic necessity of clean drinking water.

If people want to march in the streets over something that strikes way more relevant to Canada than issues related to the treatment of black citizens by various arms of the United States government.

But Stephen Colbert, CNN and the New York Times don't talk about the things happening in Northern Ontario or wherever, so as a result no one really gives it much thought. Which, I suppose, works for many as it keeps a lid on things.

There was a convoy driving through Edmonton yesterday supporting/protesting MMIWG:

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/their-lives-...red-indigenous-women-and-girls-1.4968890

The Idle No More protests were nearly a decade ago.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by wave46

If you want to be pedantic, technically Generation X was the tool.

Quite true. They are pretty easy to forget ...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The Idle No More protests were nearly a decade ago.

That was probably the last time that there was a mainstream rally responding to the plight of Indigenous people in Canada. The point is that we often take our cues from the US regardless of what the domestic front burner issues are, or should be.

[SignalHillHiker]

The poor Royal Newfoundland Constabulary is pretty far removed from this sort of thing, but they sure do have to deal with a lot of the backlash.



A few other (in my opinion better) murals have popped up around downtown with "I CAN'T BREATHE!".

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The poor Royal Newfoundland Constabulary is pretty far removed from this sort of thing, but they sure do have to deal with a lot of the backlash.

This is the sort of thing I was getting at with my previous posts... I vaguely recall the controversy in St John's a few years ago over whether the police should be allowed to participate in the local pride parade given the BLM issues that were in the news at the time.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

That was probably the last time that there was a mainstream rally responding to the plight of Indigenous people in Canada. The point is that we often take our cues from the US regardless of what the domestic front burner issues are, or should be.

Of course. Our culture is dictated by American culture.

[Marty_Mcfly]

The RNC are far from perfect and do have some shady officers and practices, but one thing they can't be criticized for would be racial profiling.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is true. I hate to say it, but Indigenous people in Canada have as raw a deal as anyone. I mean, as vid likes to remind us, there are many northern communities without the basic necessity of clean drinking water.

If people want to march in the streets over something that strikes way more relevant to Canada than issues related to the treatment of black citizens by various arms of the United States government.

But Stephen Colbert, CNN and the New York Times don't talk about the things happening in Northern Ontario or wherever, so as a result no one really gives it much thought. Which, I suppose, works for many as it keeps a lid on things.

It also doesn't help that our problem is away from where our media is based. While the US problem is very visible and located in their largest cities, our poorest reserves are extremely remote. Even in cities that have large concentrations of Indigenous citizens, the media in this country isn't really in tune with them. They're focused on the media heartland of Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver (or the US).

Our inability to focus on our own issues is a problem. Since the last cultural barrier between our countries has been thoroughly destroyed by the internet (the media), I don't know how Canadian discourse plays out in the future.

I also suspect there's a 'hate on America' comeuppance playing out too and a smugness about how superior we are. When you bring to light uncomfortable issues such as our Indigenous population, suddenly we get very defensive - "It's not the same thing" vibe.

We ignore our own problems at our peril.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Of course. Our culture is dictated by American culture.

Yeah, for better or for worse. At least European countries have a bit of a language barrier that keeps domestic issues on the radar... Denmark is a small country but having their own language means that their newspapers, websites, TV stations, etc. thrive and keep a bit of the focus inward so they aren't dominated by their neighbours. We don't really have that, 1.5 provinces excepted.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Quite true. They are pretty easy to forget ...

Hey!

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by esquire

Wasn't the point of social distancing to protect lives? You know, because they matter?

Let me know where I can pick up my prize :

The seasonal flu kills way more people than looting and rioting.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is the sort of thing I was getting at with my previous posts... I vaguely recall the controversy in St John's a few years ago over whether the police should be allowed to participate in the local pride parade given the BLM issues that were in the news at the time.

We've got a perfect storm here for that sort of thing. The society as a whole is quite liberal, which pushes our left fringe to be more radical. Social conservatism doesn't really exist in our politics so people who feel that way, especially the handful of rural areas that are still today strongly religious, vote Liberal but have to look elsewhere to get their social oppression fix. They tend to take it out on their own communities. I know some gay guys in St. John's, for example, who are originally from Pentecostal towns. They have the level of mental issues and rejection by their families that you'd expect from Mississippi. 40-year-olds who haven't come out to their parents, 20-year-olds completely disowned and abandoned for coming out. Blows my mind every time that they're from here.

So you end up with a situation where students come to the capital from those sorts of rural areas and go completely off the social justice warrior deep end. I guarantee you there are white kids here who would get red-faced yelling at a black organizer about how a Black Lives Matters protest should be handled. There's no... reasonableness. Everything is an outrage that necessitates complete destruction of the individual responsible and any structure they're a part of. Everything is "You're either with us, or against us!".

They fortunately don't get a lot of mainstream traction in the city because their experience doesn't make sense to us. They'll write letters to the editor about how homophobic and racist Newfoundland is, but we can't relate to that. That might be the case in Springdale but it's simply not in St. John's, at least not to the degree and in the stark terms they tend to use. When they start with a (for us) false reality like that, they don't get anywhere. People tune out. (I realize lots of white folks would say the same about black issues generally, but I genuinely do believe I'm being objective here.)

So, again, you can imagine my glee there's an actual black-led Black Lives Matter group here now. It'll be so helpful to have people entitled to whatever actions they choose to take actually making those decisions.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hey!

I wondered who’d notice.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

This is true. I hate to say it, but Indigenous people in Canada have as raw a deal as anyone. I mean, as vid likes to remind us, there are many northern communities without the basic necessity of clean drinking water.

If people want to march in the streets over something that strikes way more relevant to Canada than issues related to the treatment of black citizens by various arms of the United States government.

But Stephen Colbert, CNN and the New York Times don't talk about the things happening in Northern Ontario or wherever, so as a result no one really gives it much thought. Which, I suppose, works for many as it keeps a lid on things.

In terms of having a distinct cultural identity or image, Canada overall is probably a hopeless case at this point in history. (And even Quebec may follow down that path at one point as well - though that will take a lot more time to fully play out.)

The real question though is whether or not Canada can continue to carve out its own path in terms of societal and political norms. In fairness, I would say that historically the country has usually been able to do that, though perhaps not as seamlessly as some Canadians like to think. I am thinking here of Canadians who believe the constant intake of all things American is of little consequence on Canadians' outlook on things.

Anyway, our ears and eyes have never been so focused on the U.S. and its pursuits, so I guess the coming years and decades will be the ultimate test.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by niwell

It's kind of been treated like the elephant in the room, but COVID has definitely been a major factor in this powderkeg. I think it would have happened at some point regardless, but it was certainly part of the catalyst.

Most largescale sea change events (not saying we are necessarily in one) also have other big factors contributing to the snowballing of events. South African involvement in the Angolan Civil War likely dramatically hastened the fall of the Apartheid regime, for instance.

With respect to the protests, I think it's a little bit more about the economic shock than COVID19. If we had a banking crisis like 2008-09 with similar results, I think we'd see the same thing.

If anything, COVID19 is limiting the size of the protests, and resultant rioting, etc.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I hope people read the article. Those authors have been spot on. They are consulted by investment banks. And Trump's own advisor (Steve Bannon) was a fan, hoping to win over Millennials before the the changeover.

I really think this is historical. It almost feels like watching the Arab Spring or the Colour Revolutions of ex-Soviet Republics. The Arab Spring was sparked by the death of one humble fruit merchant.

It was a great article. I only take offense and the one quick lumping in of Gen-X with the boomers. Even though I don't really fall into that demo either.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by wave46

Again, I remain skeptical of people who make predictions about human history, or any 20 year or 80 year 'rule'.

It rained here 3 days ago. That tells me nothing about 3 days from now.

People want to sort/classify/apply order to human history. Which is fine, looking only at the past. For the future - who knows?

Human history is a continuum. It works in weird and mysterious ways. Seemingly random events shift things. Sometimes events we didn't even see coming shape a generation.

People follow some very well defined patterns throughout their life. Think about the support you need as an infant, then through public school, university/training, lower level job, marriage, kids, better income (now you have the kids and begin that cycle), older age, retirement, health concerns, and death.

Having a "bump" of boomers going through these stages at the same time is massive for society. I've studied some investment advice based on watching these trends, and long term, they are huge.

Of course this stuff isn't precise, but when one group takes over from another, look out. Especially if they are blaming that group (Boomers) for taking up the ladder behind them.

I'm actually cautiously optimistic if we can avoid another Boomer (and echo) demographic bumps, we can have a more steadily progressive society. Of course then an asteroid will hit.