Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Plus, automated trains sure come in handy when bus drivers go on strike.

SkyTrain union opens door to possible job action amid stalled contract talks

[Dengler Avenue]

...

I hope job action doesn’t end up ruining Vancity’s good transit.

[Changing City]

Meanwhile, in a land far, far away... (well, Hamilton).

"Hamilton’s planned light rail transit system (LRT) has gone off the tracks, permanently.
The Ford government is scrapping the project because the cost had climbed from $1 billion to $3 billion.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Meanwhile, in a land far, far away... (well, Hamilton).

"Hamilton’s planned light rail transit system (LRT) has gone off the tracks, permanently.
The Ford government is scrapping the project because the cost had climbed from $1 billion to $3 billion.

Hamilton’s the seat of ON NDP’s leader (Andrea Horwath). Current government is ON PC. Go figure.
Anyway, scared that the any upper level of government will pull funding away?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Meanwhile, in a land far, far away... (well, Hamilton).

"Hamilton’s planned light rail transit system (LRT) has gone off the tracks, permanently.
The Ford government is scrapping the project because the cost had climbed from $1 billion to $3 billion.

That should be when you scale back the first phase to fit within the funding envelope.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeowtch. Whether Hamilton's suffering from an Ontario problem or a tram problem, no transit project should cost $214M/km or more unless there's tunnels or viaducts involved.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Anyway, scared that the any upper level of government will pull funding away?

How so? Horgan's ready to fund whatever Metro Van wants him to fund... and Trudeau's about to burn up to $20 billion on a pipeline, so he can't really say sh*t to us.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Yeowtch. Whether Hamilton's suffering from an Ontario problem or a tram problem, no transit project should cost $214M/km or more unless there's tunnels or viaducts involved.



How so? Horgan's ready to fund whatever Metro Van wants him to fund... and Trudeau's about to burn up to $20 billion on a pipeline, so he can't really say sh*t to us.

I believe that was the entire lifecycle cost -5 Billion over 30 years. By comparison the Surrey LRT was on track to lose half a billion.


Safety not being considered either, every number is redacted.

http://www.llbc.leg.bc.ca/public/pubdocs/bcdocs2018_2/688751/sng_lrt_risk_report.pdf


This document actually mentions both Hamilton and Surrey LRT
https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Public-Infrastructure-Projects-Iacobacci.pdf

With Hamilton had a better business case for BRT.

Metro Vancouver has five transit projects that fit the criteria for eligible projects. Two of these
projects are already in service: the Canada Line and the Millennium Line Evergreen Extension.
One project is under construction and two are funded. Only two of the five projects do not have
business cases in the public domain. Hence, we do not know if these are creating value for users
and the public at large. The three remaining projects all have business cases, with two of those
— the Canada Line and the Millennium Line Evergreen Extension — showing significant value
creation. However, neither of these projects has been subject to an ex post CBA, which would either
confirm the expected value creation or revise the estimate. Moreover, the first phase of the Surrey
LRT is expected to destroy value, although this may turn out more positively depending on the
option selected for Phase 2.

Respective tables:

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by nname

Agenda for next week's Mayors Council is posted online:

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/Documen...ors-Council--PUBLIC-MTG--Jan-30-2020.pdf

See page 17 for the update on Surrey Langley Skytrain

An interesting tidbit from pg 19:

"In addition, the City of Langley MOU addresses mutual support for a potential operations and maintenance centre in the City. Both MOUs are agreed final drafts as of the date of this report and will be executed following endorsement of the project business case."

[rpvan]

Surrey committed to planning for density to support SkyTrain extension

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouversu...ensity-to-support-skytrain-extension/amp

[fredinno]

Wait, what? How in the world did they go through with the Ellington with THAT bad of an NPV? Was Doug Ford was right all along?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Wait, what? How in the world did they go through with the Ellington with THAT bad of an NPV? Was Doug Ford was right all along?

You seem to think the Fords care about business cases? That's funny, Scarborough subway, note no business case done.
Business cases or CR or NPV only matters to Doug Ford if it helps where he is going anyway.

[nname]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Wait, what? How in the world did they go through with the Ellington with THAT bad of an NPV? Was Doug Ford was right all along?

Well, the previous Surrey LRT plan almost went through with almost as bad of an NPV....

[rpvan]

Good news!

Surrey-Langley SkyTrain business case approved by Mayors' Council

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/surrey-langley-skytrain-business-case-approved

[foolworm]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about this project. I'm guessing people have exhausted all speculation without further updates on the topic? Certainly the land speculation hasn't stopped with developers dreaming up of TOD schemes at Fleetwood.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by foolworm

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about this project. I'm guessing people have exhausted all speculation without further updates on the topic? Certainly the land speculation hasn't stopped with developers dreaming up of TOD schemes at Fleetwood.

I believe we are still 10-15 years away from shovels hitting the ground. The City of Surrey has postponed work on Fraser Hwy between Whalley Blvd and 148th St again.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I believe we are still 10-15 years away from shovels hitting the ground. The City of Surrey has postponed work on Fraser Hwy between Whalley Blvd and 148th St again.

For TOD, yes.

Optimistically I can see shovels hitting the ground in the next 1.5-7 years. It really depends if the Feds are serious about financing projects to jump-start the economy.

Bottom line is that this project along with the Millennium line extension to UBC all depends upon what the federal government wants to fund to stimulate the economy. Personally I think that mass transit projects, like the Expo Line (ext. to LANGLEY, thank you very much) and the Millennium line extension, are excellent candidates as stimulating projects since they give short term jobs (the actual construction of the line), medium term jobs (like TOD), and then long term jobs (tenants that occupy the TOD). The Expo line, itself, is a pretty good candidate since the entire line would be elevated whereas the Millennium extension to UBC has tunnels involved making it more expensive. And TBH, the Expo line would run through communities that wouldn't oppose the Skytrain as strongly as the NIMBYs in Kits. The NIMBYs in COV will probably demand Cathedral-like stations to be built whereas the Expo line extension will more likely be able to get away with building standard stations without ridiculous demands from the public.

I know that Fleetwood is already drumming up a plan for a TOD redevelopment but would Clayton or North Cloverdale (lol, can we get a Cloverton station?) be willing to redevelop similarly if the Expo line extends to Langley?

[foolworm]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I believe we are still 10-15 years away from shovels hitting the ground. The City of Surrey has postponed work on Fraser Hwy between Whalley Blvd and 148th St again.

Have you considered that the possibility that the postponement of work is due to the project? After all, Translink still has the money earmarked for the LRT (which really should have been withdrawn when the project was cancelled).

[interrobang]

I was at a virtual talk that Translink gave last week on the project.

In terms of a timeline, nothing has changed. If anything, any stimulus money will help fast-track the second phase, or move ahead ancillary projects. RFQ is still anticipated Summer 2020, RFP Early 2021 and closing in the fall of 2021 with construction early 2022. They are not required to follow the BC CBA on this project, unless the provincial government were to come in and mandate it later on with final approval this summer before the RFQ.

There has been a decision on the location of OMC4 but they aren't ready to reveal it yet.

[Migrant_Coconut]

I wonder if two years is enough time to plan and approve the Fleetwood-Langley segment (assuming a stimulus from the feds/province, of course).

[Metro-One]

Pretty sure it is actually being planned and designed simultaneously with phase one.