Great Canadian Skyline Thread II - Page 625

q12 · #**12481** Posted **Mar 24, 2020, 5:02 PM**

Some more Halifax from this past summer:

_DSC0094a by alfplant2009, on Flickr

Halifax Academy Building by Wayne Hsieh, on Flickr

Chadillaccc · #**12482** Posted **Mar 24, 2020, 5:26 PM**

https://www.instagram.com/stevencalgary/

Untitled by Tyler Arnold, on Flickr

someone123 · #**12483** Posted **Mar 24, 2020, 6:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by q12

https://twitter.com/developns/status/1242466536826126336

That view is going to change a lot over the next few years (provided the economy is not completely derailed..).

The parking lot in the lower right will be the Cunard tower. Behind the white tower (Alexander), The Governor is under construction. Skye is supposed to start in 2021 in front of that tower with the orange crane. Then there's the Ralston redevelopment. The waterfront lot with the tents is going to be a new art gallery and cultural hub. There is a competition underway for that project and there should be some preliminary designs in a few months. So 5 projects in the southern/lower downtown area that will be prominent from this angle.

Martin Mtl · #**12484** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 1:21 PM**

Montreal, march 2020

https://imgur.com/gallery/xoLyLyr

scryer · #**12485** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 3:06 PM**

You can really see some excellent examples of the missing middle housing in those Montreal shots

. Vancouver: take note!

craner · #**12486** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 6:41 PM**

^^ Great Montreal set!

Darkoshvilli · #**12487** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 7:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

You can really see some excellent examples of the missing middle housing in those Montreal shots

. Vancouver: take note!

NGL I had to look up what missing middle housing means. At first I thought you were taking a shot at Montreal.

someone123 · #**12488** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 8:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

You can really see some excellent examples of the missing middle housing in those Montreal shots

. Vancouver: take note!

But a lot of these neighbourhoods first developed like this, and this type of development is already uneconomical in inner Vancouver. A Montreal-style triplex in inner Vancouver would cost something like $800,000 and most of that would be land costs.

When redeveloping I think house-and-towers makes a lot of sense and that's why we see it, even though medium density might be more attractive in some ways. If you want to add 200 units to an area you can tear down 8 houses for a tower or 70 houses for triplexes.

logan5 · #**12489** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 8:57 PM**

Looking at listings in Norquay, one of the few areas that are zoned for townhouse, units are going for under 800 per sq foot. High rise condos at nearby Collingwood are 1200 per sq foot.

It is imperative that Vancouver zone land in the 1.2 to 1.4 FSR range. This is where you will see ground oriented housing get built. This type of housing product provides far better value for your money than high rise units. There's no disputing that.

rousseau · #**12490** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by scryer

You can really see some excellent examples of the missing middle housing in those Montreal shots

. Vancouver: take note!

And Toronto as well. But that ship sailed a hundred years ago when the Montreal triplexes were built for the working class.

11a2b3 · #**12491** Posted **Mar 25, 2020, 9:51 PM**

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/foheg9/sunset_over_an_almost_empty_highway/

OTSkyline · #**12492** Posted **Mar 26, 2020, 2:10 PM**

Cool Ottawa shot! Too bad it's not during daylight and clearer, we rarely see Ottawa on here.

Eerie how empty the highway is... freaky

TorontoDrew · #**12493** Posted **Mar 26, 2020, 4:44 PM**

March 25th 2020

Toronto Skyscrapers by Franklin McKay, on Flickr

q12 · #**12494** Posted **Mar 26, 2020, 7:16 PM**

https://youtu.be/S_kA08p_kxA

Monolith · #**12495** Posted **Mar 26, 2020, 7:25 PM**

Vancouver, BC by James K *, on Flickr

Panoramic view of the busy harbour by Peggy Reimchen, on Flickr

Supermoon rise by james c. (vancouver bc), on Flickr

scryer · #**12496** Posted **Mar 26, 2020, 11:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkoshvilli

NGL I had to look up what missing middle housing means. At first I thought you were taking a shot at Montreal.

When I'm not being a dick on these forums I actually push a more positive narrative when it comes to comparing Canadian cities to each other. I think that Canadian cities can really learn from each other in terms of development.

Quote:

But a lot of these neighbourhoods first developed like this, and this type of development is already uneconomical in inner Vancouver. A Montreal-style triplex in inner Vancouver would cost something like $800,000 and most of that would be land costs.

When redeveloping I think house-and-towers makes a lot of sense and that's why we see it, even though medium density might be more attractive in some ways. If you want to add 200 units to an area you can tear down 8 houses for a tower or 70 houses for triplexes.

I understand that the Montreal walk-up-style neighbourhoods were originally developed the way that they are now. Like I know that they didn't spring up out of the mid-2000's.

I'm not sure what you mean by inner-Vancouver. Are you referring to the downtown peninsula or are you referring just to the COV? To clarify my own point (and this should really continue in the Vancity forums...) I think that the missing middle housing has its time and place. Of course I don't think it would be viable for the downtown peninsula however MM type housing could definitely be rezoned deep in the SFH zones of Kitsilano, West Point Grey, South Granville, South Main, and Mt. Pleasant areas.

For the record: I don't think that anything shorter than 15 floors should be allowed in the Downtown peninsula. Davie, Robson, and Granville streets are all under-zoned and should be towers/mid-rises.

Kilgore Trout · #**12497** Posted **Mar 27, 2020, 5:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

And Toronto as well. But that ship sailed a hundred years ago when the Montreal triplexes were built for the working class.

Not exactly. Triplexes never stopped being built. They changed form slightly, with basement garages being added in the 1960s, a more suburban form in the 1980s, then an urban revival starting the 1990s. But the fundamental logic of Montreal housing (small apartment buildings with multiple street entrances and few/no common areas) was never really altered.

1955:

https://goo.gl/maps/edFWfG8banHqfSb77

1965 (left), 2014 (right):

https://goo.gl/maps/YnLRsKHzPt5QKxCA7

1985:

https://goo.gl/maps/FraAF9YGNgFYjwht8

1994:

https://goo.gl/maps/7RudipBcidwE6rM99

2001:

https://goo.gl/maps/wnA98nVfXys5eHZWA

2019:

https://goo.gl/maps/AUZF6AhitrAW7cCQ8

The curving outdoor staircase has even made a comeback, as you can see in the examples from 2014 and 2019.

From what I understand, it's cheaper and faster to build housing in Montreal than in Toronto or Vancouver because there are fewer regulatory hoops. Many areas have no minimum parking requirements, and there's no need to change the zoning if you're going to build something 3-4 storeys. A developer can throw up a modern triplex or small apartment building pretty much anywhere.

someone123 · #**12498** Posted **Mar 27, 2020, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

From what I understand, it's cheaper and faster to build housing in Montreal than in Toronto or Vancouver because there are fewer regulatory hoops. Many areas have no minimum parking requirements, and there's no need to change the zoning if you're going to build something 3-4 storeys. A developer can throw up a modern triplex or small apartment building pretty much anywhere.

Approval and fees are an issue in Vancouver but the biggest factor is land costs. If you have a $1.8M lot you get $600,000 per unit land costs for a triplex. If you build a larger condo building you might have $200,000 per unit land costs. There has to be something about a triplex that justifies that $400,000 per unit premium.

There have been some lowrise affordable housing projects around areas like Commercial Drive. They wind up being an awful use of housing money. Co:Here on Victoria Drive is 4 floors and cost $460,000 per unit (for those who don't know, those are the economics in the cheaper part of the City of Vancouver; I am not talking about the West Side or downtown where the numbers would be astronomical). So far Vancouver's affordable housing strategy seems to be to pick a tiny percentage of people who need housing and give them super expensive "missing middle" units.

J.OT13 · #**12499** Posted **Mar 27, 2020, 6:01 PM**

Couple Ottawa shots.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/asifali1985/20432513442

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/beautiful-brutalism-ottawa-1.3303475

someone123 · #**12500** Posted **Mar 27, 2020, 6:01 PM**

This is just a fun exercise but let's say we rebuilt the White Spot on Georgia Street in Vancouver as triplexes.

It's just under an acre, and the triplex lots are often around 10x30 m. We could fit about 14 triplexes onto that site (probably fewer). That gives us 42 units.

It sold for $245M a few years ago. Each triplex unit would have about $5.8M in land costs. So sticker price $6M, annual municipal tax bill $15,000. Maybe we can interest Jeff Bezos in a 3rd storey walkup.