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  #981  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
So you know so little about this country’s existing trains that being presented with a travel time which is almost twice what it should be (because you managed to only check one of the few connections which not only detour via Ottawa, but add a stopover of 2+ hours) doesn’t surprise you enough to consider performing a sanity check, yet, you believe you can write a research paper which will convince (not just politically, but also fiscally) conservative politicians about the merits of providing new rural rail services...?
I was also wondering if you wanted to join (if time permits) this research because I wanted an insider for sanity check when it comes time to perform data analysis.
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  #982  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 5:42 PM
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https://images.app.goo.gl/SNBfn2YTqjdQTypc6

Theres an example of a typical zone speed sign that line the tracks across the system. Its a scale model but is an exact representation of what u see along the tracks. The top number is usually passenger speed and the bottom freight speed. Just as example.
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  #983  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 5:44 PM
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https://images.app.goo.gl/SNBfn2YTqjdQTypc6

Theres an example of a typical zone speed sign that line the tracks across the system. Its a scale model but is an exact representation of what u see along the tracks. The top number is usually passenger speed and the bottom freight speed. Just as example.
Are they in kph or mph?
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  #984  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dengler avenue View Post
are they in kph or mph?
mph
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  #985  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 6:33 PM
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mph
We’re in Canada though. Why do we use imperial system for our trains?

I saw you guys using mph in previous pages and have been wondering.
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  #986  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
We’re in Canada though. Why do we use imperial system for our trains?

I saw you guys using mph in previous pages and have been wondering.
Our trains also run in the US. A lot of locomotives were built before canada went to a metric system. Not to mention converting the whole system to metric is expensive and useless. Imagine having to change the speed signs on 50000km of track in Canada as well as all the documentation.
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  #987  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 8:38 PM
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Originally Posted by J81 View Post
No its not true. I cant show you all the timetable speed charts for every subdivision in the country for obvious reasons but i can tell you that for subdivisions where passenger trains operate there are two charts or two columns depending on the types of passenger equipment operated.
What part of my post are you saying isn't true? Are you saying that all mainlines have Class 5 track (80 mph freight, 95 mph passenger, 100 mph LRC)? Are you saying that branch lines have class 4 (60 mph freight, 80 mph passenger) and 5 track?

Quote:
Where the two exist on the same sub there is always a difference in speed.
I am well aware of different speed limits for freight and passenger trains on the same class of track. You don't need to look at proprietary schedules to know that. Just look at Subpart A - Classes of Track of the Rules Respecting Track Safety and you will see the different speed limits for the different classes of track.

Interestingly, they aren't defined by Transport Canada yet, but in the United States, Classes 6 and above of track have the same speed limits for both freight and passenger trains.
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  #988  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
So you know so little about this country’s existing trains that being presented with a travel time which is almost twice what it should be (because you managed to only check one of the few connections which not only detour via Ottawa, but add a stopover of 2+ hours) doesn’t surprise you enough to consider performing a sanity check, yet, you believe you can write a research paper which will convince (not just politically, but also fiscally) conservative politicians about the merits of providing new rural rail services...?
Do you notice that once I am given accurate information that is different than my existing knowledge, I acknowledge it? I will argue semantics, but not facts.

Besides, part of the research is to find out all the existing facts. That includes the fastest and slowest times. For example, I know one train is about 9 hours. I also now know that some are under 5. So, part of the research is finding out that. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
I was also wondering if you wanted to join (if time permits) this research because I wanted an insider for sanity check when it comes time to perform data analysis.
I welcome all people to help out. However, there may be something that prevents Urbansky from joining.
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  #989  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 8:55 PM
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No its not public information. Its a railway document and thus railway property for use by operating crews. Hence why i cant post a picture of the chart here.
So, if I wanted to know the CP Red Deer and Leduc subdivision information as far as how long it would take a train traveling at track speed to currently traverse them, how would I go about that?
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  #990  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Do you notice that once I am given accurate information that is different than my existing knowledge, I acknowledge it? I will argue semantics, but not facts.
Let’s say that I noticed such a behaviour (which I take for granted by anyone else in this discussion) for the first time from you, but it’s too early for me to determine whether this points at a change in your behaviour or you just acted out of character this one time...

Quote:
Besides, part of the research is to find out all the existing facts. That includes the fastest and slowest times. For example, I know one train is about 9 hours. I also now know that some are under 5. So, part of the research is finding out that. Thank you.
Okay, since you appear to be overwhelmed with operating VIA’s booking page (or downloading and viewing its PDF timetable):
  • The fastest scheduled VIA train (VIA 68) covers the distance of 539 km between Toronto and Montreal in 4:49 hours (dep. TRTO 17:00, arr. MTRL 21:49)
  • The slowest scheduled VIA train (VIA 51) covers the 633 km between Montreal and Toronto (via Ottawa!) in 6:32 hours (dep. MTRL 06:20, arr. TRTO 12:52)
  • Anything slower than that is a connection between a MTRL-OTTW and an OTTW-TRTO service, for instance of trains 635 (dep. MTRL 14:10, arr. OTTW 16:14) and 59 (dep. OTTW 18:26, arr. 23:07) with a combined travel time of 6:45 (2:04+4:41) hours, which only adds up to 8:57 hours if you include the connection time of 2:12 hours in OTTW while waiting to board train 59. However, connections like these have zero relevance for passenger travelling between Montreal and Toronto, as train 69 departs Montreal at 16:25 (i.e. 2:15 hours later than train 635) and arrives Toronto at 21:15 (i.e. 1:52 hours earlier than train 59).


Quote:
I welcome all people to help out. However, there may be something that prevents Urbansky from joining.
I don’t know whether this is a failed attempt to write my Username or my last name, but it doesn’t exactly establish confidence in your research skills...

Last edited by Urban_Sky; Mar 5, 2020 at 10:18 PM.
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  #991  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:07 PM
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I don’t know whether this is a failed attempt to write my Username or last name, but it doesn’t exactly establish confidence in your research skills...
Relax, Johannes, you’re getting a bit petty here. Everyone’s gotta start somewhere.
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  #992  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:27 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by J81 View Post
Our trains also run in the US. A lot of locomotives were built before canada went to a metric system. Not to mention converting the whole system to metric is expensive and useless. Imagine having to change the speed signs on 50000km of track in Canada as well as all the documentation.
More of a laziness thing from Transport Canada that relies on the US for most of rail certs.
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  #993  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
More of a laziness thing from Transport Canada that relies on the US for most of rail certs.
Wrong. Nice try though.
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  #994  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
Let’s say that I noticed such a behaviour (which I take for granted by anyone else in this discussion) for the first time from you, but it’s too early for me to determine whether this points at a change in your behaviour or you just acted out of character this one time...
Or maybe we have all been focused on being right instead of seeing meaningful discussion. I am not digging through here, but when someone points to a fact that I did not know, or that I got wrong, I acknowledge it and then work with the new fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
Okay, since you appear to be overwhelmed with operating VIA’s booking page (or downloading and viewing its PDF timetable):
  • The fastest scheduled VIA train (VIA 68) covers the distance of 539 km between Toronto and Montreal in 4:49 hours (dep. TRTO 17:00, arr. MTRL 21:49)
  • The slowest scheduled VIA train (VIA 51) covers the 633 km between Montreal and Toronto (via Ottawa!) in 6:32 hours (dep. MTRL 06:20, arr. TRTO 12:52)
  • Anything slower than that is a connection between a MTRL-OTTW and an OTTW-TRTO service, for instance of trains 635 (dep. MTRL 14:10, arr. OTTW 16:14) and 59 (dep. OTTW 18:26, arr. 23:07) with a combined travel time of 6:45 (2:04+4:41) hours, which only adds up to 8:57 hours if you include the connection time of 2:12 hours in OTTW while waiting to board train 59. However, connections like these have zero relevance for passenger travelling between Montreal and Toronto, as train 69 departs Montreal at 16:25 (i.e. 2:15 hours later than train 635) and arrives Toronto at 21:15 (i.e. 1:52 hours earlier than train 59).
I have been trying to use their trip planner and the PDFs. I am still trying to figure out what day 1,2,3, etc is. It is a learning process.

This is not my area of expertise, but that does not mean I cannot learn and create a good report from quality research.

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Originally Posted by Urban_Sky View Post
I don’t know whether this is a failed attempt to write my Username or my last name, but it doesn’t exactly establish confidence in your research skills...
That actually was a mistake. I thought there was no space. People spell my first name wrong all the time, even when I spell it out for them. Whether you want to help or not, it's up to you. You seem to have a lot of information. My concern is whether your employer has some sort of rule, like a nondisclosure, or conflict of interest. In the military, I had rules that governed what I could and could not do outside of the military. Even now, I still have some restrictions.

If you were to join us, I would ask one thing - leave your bias at the door. We want the facts to speak on their own, but in an organized fashion. So, arguments on what will or will not work must be clearly shown in the facts.
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  #995  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:43 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Wrong. Nice try though.
Really? So Canada got rid of all of its FRA 1 requirements?
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  #996  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:45 PM
J81 J81 is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
What part of my post are you saying isn't true? Are you saying that all mainlines have Class 5 track (80 mph freight, 95 mph passenger, 100 mph LRC)? Are you saying that branch lines have class 4 (60 mph freight, 80 mph passenger) and 5 track?



I am well aware of different speed limits for freight and passenger trains on the same class of track. You don't need to look at proprietary schedules to know that. Just look at Subpart A - Classes of Track of the Rules Respecting Track Safety and you will see the different speed limits for the different classes of track.

Interestingly, they aren't defined by Transport Canada yet, but in the United States, Classes 6 and above of track have the same speed limits for both freight and passenger trains.
I said passenger speed is almost always higher than freight speed. You said only on class 5 track which is not true. Im not sure exactly what youre arguing?
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  #997  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:46 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Wrong. Nice try though.
How come they are so similar then? Same with TDG regulations. It would be kinder though to not call it lazy but sensible, since there is so much cross border traffic.
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  #998  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:46 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
Or maybe we have all been focused on being right instead of seeing meaningful discussion. I am not digging through here, but when someone points to a fact that I did not know, or that I got wrong, I acknowledge it and then work with the new fact.
I like Urban Sky discussions, but I wonder how the heck he's allowed to talk about work items like that. I for sure can't disclose of any information from work before I get explicit apporoval from the higher management?
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  #999  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:47 PM
J81 J81 is offline
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Really? So Canada got rid of all of its FRA 1 requirements?
It has nothing to do with transport canada being lazy. Thats what youre wrong about.
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  #1000  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2020, 10:49 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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It has nothing to do with transport canada being lazy. Thats what youre wrong about.
Do go on? Why aren't European DMUs allowed then?
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