Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Brannwagon]

Agonizingly slow speeds on Line 1 today, within the tunnel included. This can’t seriously be our solution any time there are “wet” conditions, can it? For reference, this is Friday - clear skies and sunny - in contrast to Thursday.

Slow speeds and 7min mid-day frequency has me ditching transit, for the rest of today at least.

[Brannwagon]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

BAD DAY !

Thanks to rocketphish for posting this......I was going to refer to it somehow.

THIS IS IMPORTANT to all who have allergies to CITRUS !

Whether it actually contains citrus or not, it is close enough to be of MAJOR concern.

ALL who are allergic MUST now avoid PARL station at the least, if not the whole damned tunnel section.

What gets me riled is NO WARNING. either in the station or via previous announcement of the measure. This is hazardous.

And no, I am not overreacting. From different walks in my life, I know 2 people with severe citrus allergy - life threatening to just be in the area of someone eating citrus.

CITY or RTM or Citron MUST release the fact of, and the ingredients to, these 'fresheners'. AND release their allergy evaluation.

Note to CITY - a HUGE FAIL !

Fair assessment, but wouldn’t this risk be present in many situations such as public washrooms, etc.? Either way I agree there was little-to-no communication about the installation.

What I do find strange is that CBC is reporting as if the air fresheners were only recently installed. Parliament is my home station, and I’ve noticed them since at least November. I remember, at the time, applauding their quick implementation of an “interim” solution to the Parliament stench.

[J.OT13]

We canceled our parking at Place de Ville on December 31 (giving our 1 month's notice). We had been thinking about it for a while, for environmental reasons mostly, but also for flexibility (if one needs to do OT, the other can leave) and cost (don't have to pay for parking that isn't used during days off). The train at the time seemed to have been stabilized, with very few issues in December.

A few hours after cancelling the parking, trains started breaking down due to electrical issues (New Year's Eve). They knew the cause and we figured they could fix the problems by the time we started taking transit in February. Then on January 16th, the overhead wire came down at St-Laurent. The entire system went downhill from there.

Can't say we regret cancelling our parking yet; we've only experienced 3 very bad days ourselves this month. Worth mentioning that we do still drive once or twice a week, either if we have plans after work or if the train is unreliable (such was the case today). We were effected Thursday last week and Wednesday this week.

I'm sure the train will one day be stabilized and become the reliable transportation backbone we had hoped it could be. RTG/RTM does seem to be making progress, as slow as it may be.

Firing everyone won't help the situation; it may even make it worse, with no one to take charge in the interim and few, if any, qualified individuals would want to join a sinking ship. I do believe Kanellakos should be fired so that a new City Manager from outside (not one of Watson's buddies) with fresh ideas and an unbiased view of the situation. This person can determine if Manconi and his people can do the job (and I believe he can if he is giving more authority over OC Transpo operations by eliminating the constraints of the 2011 "optimization"). RTM should be given a certain amount of time to fix all of the issues (say a year). In the meantime, we should pay them per kilometer delivered, as per the contract. Not paying them anything is not helpful in anyway. They need funds to support their efforts.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by Brannwagon

Fair assessment, but wouldn’t this risk be present in many situations such as public washrooms, etc.? Either way I agree there was little-to-no communication about the installation.

What I do find strange is that CBC is reporting as if the air fresheners were only recently installed. Parliament is my home station, and I’ve noticed them since at least November. I remember, at the time, applauding their quick implementation of an “interim” solution to the Parliament stench.

Good Day.

Fair question, but anticipated.

Yes, they have to carefully maintain a personal list of both public and workplace washrooms, since even a previously examined one could suffer a change in 'management'.
Fortunately, that change seems infrequent.

Also, they have the immediate option of carefully sniffing upon first entry, and immediately leaving if they have to. A station, or a train through the station - not so easy.

They also have to beware of people starting to eat citrus on a bus, train, aircraft, or LRV.
A bus, they have to immediately ring for off.
An LRV, they can at least move farther down the vehicle until they can get off.
A train, they can ask to swap seats.
An aircraft is problematic. Seat swap is not always as easy an option.
It all is reflective of their always having to be aware of their surroundings.
Fortunately, many people are accepting and agreeable to holding off, or others to swapping.

As to your noting of them since November.....
1) harumph.... since before they admitted to the problem, or to the probable cause ? Odd. and;
2) again..... without notice ? Bad.

Fortunately, in an update to the CBC article, it states that Manconi has immediately required their removal, and S.W-G. has well thanked him for it.

SomeJoy!

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I'm wondering if Finland has some good ideas and tips for us...

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Brannwagon

Fair assessment, but wouldn’t this risk be present in many situations such as public washrooms, etc.? Either way I agree there was little-to-no communication about the installation.

What I do find strange is that CBC is reporting as if the air fresheners were only recently installed. Parliament is my home station, and I’ve noticed them since at least November. I remember, at the time, applauding their quick implementation of an “interim” solution to the Parliament stench.

Yeah, I was thinking these went up in October, they've definitely been there since November. I spoke to the Citron guy one day changing them out back then and he noted that these were the cheap ones and they they offered much more powerful ones for a space that size.

[OCCheetos]

With regards to the Citadis Spirit vehicles, what exactly are their problems in relation to the winter?
I'm trying to get a complete list and I'm worried I'm missing something:

- Last year one got stuck in deep snow, but the problem was addressed with improved snow clearing procedures. It hasn't happened since.

- The "inductors" are susceptible to snow... though they're equally susceptible to rain, dirt, or basically anything, so that isn't really winter-specific is it?


Am I missing anything? I see plenty of people on the internet who can't help but voice their (uninformed) opinions about how we should have used diesel trains, or used a third rail, or gotten a proven vehicle all with a strong emphasis on the climate that we have here, yet I can't help but think that winter is not the biggest problem with the system, by a long shot.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

With regards to the Citadis Spirit vehicles, what exactly are their problems in relation to the winter?
I'm trying to get a complete list and I'm worried I'm missing something:

- Last year one got stuck in deep snow, but the problem was addressed with improved snow clearing procedures. It hasn't happened since.

- The "inductors" are susceptible to snow... though they're equally susceptible to rain, dirt, or basically anything, so that isn't really winter-specific is it?


Am I missing anything?

It has been speculated that the track incursion sensors software was sharp braking at blowing snow. Anecdotal comments that was the cause of the sharp stops people experience on blowing snow days.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/record-snowfall-causes-problems-on-lrt-line-1.4773933

Not sure if that has been confirmed but the sharp braking was being investigated by RTM as a cause for the wheel flats.

There's something with braking in the snow so that's why they changed braking to Type 2 for this last storm:

We are proactively implementing type 2 braking in advance of the upcoming winter weather event as part of the winter operating plans. Customers may notice that the trains come to a more gradual stop and start,"

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/oc-transpo-launches-severe-weather-plan-ahead-of-winter-storm-1.4829171

What struck me was the phrase 'proactively implementing' since the explanation is that "we'll be braking more gradually" like you do when you are driving in slippery weather. Yet, one would assume the system would do that on its own, without override from the operators. The operators were supposed to be a backup, there to take over if the automatic mode failed. So I would speculate the winter conditions are a challenge for the software. Wheel flats can be caused by slip and slide conditions, so I'm wondering if these trains are more prone to flats from the braking system, or if that is the hypothesis they are working under as they investigate the reason why so many wheels go flat. (God help us if the cause is the other 'favourite' in the speculation - that the curve on the line is too sharp and that's flattening the wheels.)

The heating system is having problems keeping up supposedly due to all the doors being opened at every station. That is caused by the touchy door system and so the doors are on automatic instead of request open. Not sure that is technically a 'winter' issue except that people complain the trains are cold.

Of course, last spring, Chianello reported that the onboard heating system didn't always work when she leaked the contents of the internal report on deficiencies with the LRT's winter performance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832

Re-reading that article set off more warning bells, making connections between what it says and problems we've experienced this year:

The reports say that "panels are coming loose and breaking on LRVs [light-rail vehicles] due to snow building up on the vehicles," and that snow and ice are "frequently causing the doors to freeze shut."

Both brakes and bogies — the underframe of the rail car that holds the wheels — also freeze up if the vehicles "sit for any amount of time" outdoors during a snowfall.

A panel coming off caused the damage to the sensor caused one shut down of the system. And there were a ton of questions about the low bogies at one of the transit commission meetings as if they had something to do with the wheel flats. So I'm assuming the leaked report played a roll in that line of questioning (I think it was by Meehan.)

That's what I can come up with off the top of my head, with sources for my speculation that these all combine to show this version of the train is not winter-worthy. I'm not a train-phile so have no idea what is different between this version and the versions that run successfully in other cold climates. Maybe someone who studies trains more closely can point out differences between our trains and the ones that are successful.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

It has been speculated that the track incursion sensors software was sharp braking at blowing snow. Anecdotal comments that was the cause of the sharp stops people experience on blowing snow days.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/record-snowfall-causes-problems-on-lrt-line-1.4773933

Not sure if that has been confirmed but the sharp braking was being investigated by RTM as a cause for the wheel flats.

Yes, the solution to that problem is to adjust the calibration of the sensors (apparently). Whether they caused all of the wheel flats? I don't know. A few for sure, but I can't imagine it was the cause of the entire fleet's problems..

There's something with braking in the snow so that's why they changed braking to Type 2 for this last storm:

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/oc-transpo-launches-severe-weather-plan-ahead-of-winter-storm-1.4829171

What struck me was the phrase 'proactively implementing' since the explanation is that "we'll be braking more gradually" like you do when you are driving in slippery weather. Yet, one would assume the system would do that on its own, without override from the operators. The operators were supposed to be a backup, there to take over if the automatic mode failed. So I would speculate the winter conditions are a challenge for the software. Wheel flats can be caused by slip and slide conditions, so I'm wondering if these trains are more prone to flats from the braking system, or if that is the hypothesis they are working under as they investigate the reason why so many wheels go flat. (God help us if the cause is the other 'favourite' in the speculation - that the curve on the line is too sharp and that's flattening the wheels.)

I'm not sure what you mean about the operators here.

It isn't as though they hadn't adjusted the braking curves prior to this storm or this set of incidents since the beginning of the year. Maybe it was an attempt at more transparent communication, but otherwise I'm not sure what the point of telling us that they switched braking types was.

The heating system is having problems keeping up supposedly due to all the doors being opened at every station. That is caused by the touchy door system and so the doors are on automatic instead of request open. Not sure that is technically a 'winter' issue except that people complain the trains are cold.

Of course, last spring, Chianello reported that the onboard heating system didn't always work when she leaked the contents of the internal report on deficiencies with the LRT's winter performance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-trains-unreliable-says-report-1.5038832

Personally I've found the temperatures to be fine, other than when the doors have been open for an extended dwell period. But that's no different than any other vehicle where the doors stay open for a long time.

Re-reading that article set off more warning bells, making connections between what it says and problems we've experienced this year:

A panel coming off caused the damage to the sensor caused one shut down of the system. And there were a ton of questions about the low bogies at one of the transit commission meetings as if they had something to do with the wheel flats. So I'm assuming the leaked report played a roll in that line of questioning (I think it was by Meehan.)

That's what I can come up with off the top of my head, with sources for my speculation that these all combine to show this version of the train is not winter-worthy. I'm not a train-phile so have no idea what is different between this version and the versions that run successfully in other cold climates. Maybe someone who studies trains more closely can point out differences between our trains and the ones that are successful.

I wonder if "bogies freezing up" is related to the additional vibration that's been experienced when going around curves. IIRC the Citadis is different compared to something like the Flexity because its bogies actually rotate when going around curves. If they stop rotating, then you're bound to get a rougher turn.

But that's speculation, and still not something that I would class as a deal breaker since other vehicles like the Flexity don't even have this issue.

Perhaps the brake faults are related, but they aren't all that prevalent now either.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Perhaps the brake faults are related, but they aren't all that prevalent now either.

I guess my question is: Are the brake faults not prevalent now because operators have taken over the running of the train from the automatic system? Like you, I'm not sure what RTM/OCT meant when they informed us about the Type-2 braking, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of a transparency initiative.

Does anyone know how much time has been added to the Tunney's to Blair run now with the type-2 braking and the other mitigation actions? Not that it makes a big difference with so few trains on the line, but if we ever get back up to 13, it might.

Which raises another question, is the reason we are running with fewer trains because the trains themselves are not able to complete the run or because of timing issues meaning we can't have as many trains?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

With regards to the Citadis Spirit vehicles, what exactly are their problems in relation to the winter?
I'm trying to get a complete list and I'm worried I'm missing something:

- Last year one got stuck in deep snow, but the problem was addressed with improved snow clearing procedures. It hasn't happened since.

- The "inductors" are susceptible to snow... though they're equally susceptible to rain, dirt, or basically anything, so that isn't really winter-specific is it?


Am I missing anything? I see plenty of people on the internet who can't help but voice their (uninformed) opinions about how we should have used diesel trains, or used a third rail, or gotten a proven vehicle all with a strong emphasis on the climate that we have here, yet I can't help but think that winter is not the biggest problem with the system, by a long shot.

The inductor issue I believe has only occurred in winter as it is likely related to spray from road salt. The system launched in September, and it rained several times in the fall, and I don’t think we had any inductor power issues until December.

The emergency braking causing wheel flats seems to be more of a winter thing. But at the press conference this week RTM said there haven’t been any wheel flats in a couple of weeks. The intrusion detection system may have been part of the problem but it is not a component of the trains themselves. Neither are the switches.

At this point I think the most important things to do with the trains is to get all the inductor covers on ASAP, and deploy the door software update by April.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I guess my question is: Are the brake faults not prevalent now because operators have taken over the running of the train from the automatic system? Like you, I'm not sure what RTM/OCT meant when they informed us about the Type-2 braking, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of a transparency initiative.

According to Corvulpes, "Type 2 braking" is still automated. Operators haven't gone to manual operation.

Which raises another question, is the reason we are running with fewer trains because the trains themselves are not able to complete the run or because of timing issues meaning we can't have as many trains?

It seems the trains themselves aren't able to complete their runs. For instance, the other day one of them died while on the connector track trying to leave the yard and had to be taken back in. RTM is still struggling with maintenance.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The inductor issue I believe has only occurred in winter as it is likely related to spray from road salt. The system launched in September, and it rained several times in the fall, and I don’t think we had any inductor power issues until December.

Salt spray is a good point. They mentioned it was also due to a defect in the manufacturing of the inductors so I wonder if the issue would persist after the winter season is over, or if it only occurs in the presence of salt spray. Either way, the covers will mitigate the issue.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

With regards to the Citadis Spirit vehicles, what exactly are their problems in relation to the winter?
I'm trying to get a complete list and I'm worried I'm missing something:

- Last year one got stuck in deep snow, but the problem was addressed with improved snow clearing procedures. It hasn't happened since.

- The "inductors" are susceptible to snow... though they're equally susceptible to rain, dirt, or basically anything, so that isn't really winter-specific is it?


Am I missing anything? I see plenty of people on the internet who can't help but voice their (uninformed) opinions about how we should have used diesel trains, or used a third rail, or gotten a proven vehicle all with a strong emphasis on the climate that we have here, yet I can't help but think that winter is not the biggest problem with the system, by a long shot.

I don't know how diesel or third rail trains could possibly work on the Confederation Line. Diesel would not make sense in a tunnel, and I expect a third rail operations would be even less reliable in our snowy, icy climate compared to overhead catenary.

As I have said before, Ottawa operated streetcars for over 60 years successfully. There is no reason why modern LRT cannot work here.

I am disappointed with all the problems but we need to work through the problems with the existing trains. I am sure issues will gradually be resolved.

It is quite clear that the quality of some components and software is questionable and have led to many problems as well as the catenary system (falling wires and damaged supports) and switch heaters, which were inadequate for the job.

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I don't know how diesel or third rail trains could possibly work on the Confederation Line. Diesel would not make sense in a tunnel, and I expect a third rail operations would be even less reliable in our snowy, icy climate compared to overhead catenary.

As I have said before, Ottawa operated streetcars for over 60 years successfully. There is no reason why modern LRT cannot work here.

Tell that to the general public.

Here's a comment I pulled off of today's CBC article:

I know why they went electric (CO2 emissions), but they should have just used whatever train the Trillium line uses. It had proof of operability in Ottawa's climate for over a decade.

It probably would have been easier to build the line as it didn't have the overhead wires either and is based on a more robust inter-city train than an LRT or tram, which when you consider going from Kanata to Orleans would be more appropriate.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The inductor issue I believe has only occurred in winter as it is likely related to spray from road salt. The system launched in September, and it rained several times in the fall, and I don’t think we had any inductor power issues until December.

.

If that is the case, they had better find a much more robust solution before the opening of the Phase 2 East expansion. There will be way more exposure to salt spray in the median of the 174.

They have installed plywood along the fence between Nicholas and the tracks near uOttawa station, presumably to cut down the amount of salt and slush spray reaching the track and wiring. I can't see that being a feasible solution for the entirety of the median track layout from Montreal Rd to Trim.

[rocketphish]

Law firm that advised keeping SNC-Lavalin in LRT competition got $1.8M from city in 2019
The law firm that helped guide the City of Ottawa through the controversial Stage 2 LRT procurement process collected nearly $1.8 million from the municipality in 2019, a new report says.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 28, 2020

The law firm that helped guide the City of Ottawa through the controversial Stage 2 LRT procurement process collected nearly $1.8 million from the municipality in 2019, a new report says.

The city selected Norton Rose Fulbright as a chief legal and procurement advisor for the Stage 2 contracts after a contract competition for the work in 2016. The company received $1,792,801.91 for providing legal advice in 2019.

The company made about $2.3 million from LRT-related work in 2018, but the city says the work was for elements of Stage 1 and Stage 2.

The 2019 expenses are in an annual report summarizing the work of the city’s legal department. The report is scheduled to be received by the finance and economic development committee during a meeting on March 9.

There’s interest from many city councillors in the work of Norton Rose Fulbright in light of the Trillium Line expansion contract, which was awarded to SNC-Lavalin in 2019. SNC-Lavalin failed to meet a minimum technical score during the bid evaluation, but was allowed to continue to the financial component of the process. The city based its decision to keep SNC-Lavalin alive in the procurement process on advice from Norton Rose Fulbright.

Council has waived the city’s solicitor-client rights and ordered the legal advice released to the public ahead of the next finance committee meeting.

The city has said there was no conflict of interest in having Norton Rose Fulbright provide key legal and procurement services for Stage 2, even though the company had advised SNC-Lavalin in the past.

Hiring lawyers is the cost of doing business when it comes to major infrastructure projects. The city just doesn’t have enough resources and expertise to handle the complex legal work on its own.

All external legal spending tied to light rail totalled nearly $3.7 million in 2019, the report says.

Like 2018, the city tapped three law firms to handle the work.

Borden, Ladner, Gervais, which is the city’s top legal advisor for Stage 1 LRT, billed $1,531,633.43 for LRT-related work in 2019. That work would continue since the city and the Rideau Transit Group (RTG) have been disagreeing about payments during the construction and now the maintenance of the 12.5-kilometre LRT line. As RTG disputes the penalties imposed by the city under the contract, the city’s legal costs will likely rise.

The third law firm involved in the city’s LRT work, Singleton Urquhart Reynolds Vogel, billed $365,478.48 last year.

The O-Train project has contributed heavily to the cost of city legal bills.

When it came to all legal consultants in 2019, the city spent a total of $7.2 million. The legal work included various litigation, labour matters, negotiations and other claims. The O-Train work represented just over half of all the external legal expenses last year.

The city has spent more than $20 million on legal consultants for the O-Train project since 2011, which would have been when planning for Stage 1 LRT heated up before council approved a contract award to RTG at the end of 2012.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-8-million-from-city-in-2019-report-says

[rocketphish]

'Altercation' causes delays, reroutings on LRT
At about 1:45 p.m., OC Transpo special constables were called to assist in controlling a person on a westbound train at Hurdman Station.

Staff Reporter
Updated: February 29, 2020

An unspecified “altercation” caused delays and reroutings on an otherwise great day of performance on the LRT Saturday.

At about 1:45 p.m., OC Transpo special constables were called to assist in controlling a person on a westbound train at Hurdman Station.

Passengers were ordered off the affected train and transferred to a second train, which proceeded on the run via eastbound tracks until just after entering the downtown tunnel.

While service was not interrupted, the rerouting of trains caused some delays, OC Transpo tweeted.

One Transpo rider, @typezero303, described the interruption in a series of tweets, remarking the incident seemed to handled well overall.

Well, got to Lees. People getting on and we're on our way. All and all, handled pretty got to say.

Wonder if we'll switch back to the proper tracks.— Type-ZERO (@typezero303) February 29, 2020

He was slightly less complimentary later in an email exchange when discussing how long the incident lasted.

The tweeter wrote that he completed his shopping at the Rideau Centre and returned via LRT, finding it was still experiencing delays.

“My return trip eastbound, I ended up waiting 17 minutes-ish for the train,” he wrote. “People don’t have a choice, specially on the weekends … there is no supplementary bus service.

“So people sigh, carry on, because they’re stuck. We’ve got no alternatives.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/fistfight-causes-reroutings-delays-on-lrt

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Horus

If that is the case, they had better find a much more robust solution before the opening of the Phase 2 East expansion. There will be way more exposure to salt spray in the median of the 174.

They have installed plywood along the fence between Nicholas and the tracks near uOttawa station, presumably to cut down the amount of salt and slush spray reaching the track and wiring. I can't see that being a feasible solution for the entirety of the median track layout from Montreal Rd to Trim.

Based on the renderings, subject to change I'm sure, they will be installing what looks like sound barriers all along the line.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/confederation-stations/montreal

Depending on the rendering, the height of the barrier seems to vary. Station structures attached to a few overpasses should protect the train at least partially as well. All of these measures (direct or indirect) are still not complete solutions, but better than plywood I would think.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on the renderings, subject to change I'm sure, they will be installing what looks like sound barriers all along the line.


https://www.otrainfans.ca/confederation-stations/montreal

Depending on the rendering, the height of the barrier seems to vary. Station structures attached to a few overpasses should protect the train at least partially as well. All of these measures (direct or indirect) are still not complete solutions, but better than plywood I would think.

Agreed on that. I recall there having been mention of implementing the walls at the station locations so as to improve the conditions for those waiting for trains, but has there been mention that this will be implemented along the entire routing through the highway median? While likely practical, it certainly doesn't do a lot for the aesthetic element for the LRT user, or even the highway user for that matter.