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  #14361  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 7:53 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Remember when Diane Deans expressed concern about signing on to Phase 2 without seeing Phase 1 in operation and without seeing more details.

She was made to look like a fool. Clearly, she was wiser than almost all of the rest of City Council. That old sales ploy. This is your last chance, the sale ends at the end of the month. Sign on now. You may pay a lot more.
     
     
  #14362  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 8:56 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
I'm not sure that is a positive. The transition to someone new would likely be a huge mess. And guess who RTM subcontracts the train maintenance to... Alstom! Are we going to replace them too? They're the manufacturer, so I don't think so.
Bombardier! -- oh wait
     
     
  #14363  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 9:51 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Remember when Diane Deans expressed concern about signing on to Phase 2 without seeing Phase 1 in operation and without seeing more details.

She was made to look like a fool. Clearly, she was wiser than almost all of the rest of City Council. That old sales ploy. This is your last chance, the sale ends at the end of the month. Sign on now. You may pay a lot more.
Everyone who criticized LRT or even asked a mere question about it that did not comply with the rosy sky scenario was shot down and attacked. Reporters, councillors, even people on this thread. Beautiful system for California-Ottawa in winter? Not so much.

Serious question...if we were to cover the whole line-even with a roof. What percentage of issues would be solved?
     
     
  #14364  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 9:55 PM
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LRT sees a record-low six working trains amidst an array of unrelated failures in 24 hours
Transpo and RTM, the main contractor, acknowledged the pain of passengers to media Thursday, but also said they believe better times are coming.

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 27, 2020


Six trains running. Out of 17.

When light rail service began to fall apart Wednesday night, it wasn’t the weather’s fault. Instead, one mechanical failure after another knocked train after train out of service, reaching a record low of six working trains out of the promised 13 (and total of 17) by late Thursday morning.

And it stayed at six trains into the afternoon peak period. Citizen transit commissioner Sarah Wright-Gilbert said a seventh train “died” without reaching the main line. (A seventh did launch later in the afternoon.)

Quote:
According to an inside source RTM tried to bring out the 7th train but it died on the connector track to the mainline and is currently being pushed back into the yard. Looks like we will have only 6 #OttawaLRT trains for this aft.— Sarah Wright-Gilbert (@smwgilbert) February 27, 2020
Transpo and RTM, the main contractor, acknowledged the pain of passengers to media Thursday, but also said they believe better times are coming.

Transpo general manager John Manconi talked repeatedly about the goal of “service, service, service.”

RTM president Peter Lauch told reporters: “We’re moving forward.”

Underlying that optimism was a messy series of failures overnight that saw passengers escorted along the tracks from three dead trains — including one through the tunnel downtown.

Here’s how the damage stacked up.

It began with a new source of trouble. The overhead power line for the electric trains is held up by a series of poles, and each pole has an arm sticking out with a cable dangling from it, like a fishing rod and fishing line. The power wire hangs from that.

East of St. Laurent, an operator noticed during the afternoon that a cable holding the power line was broken. The operator stopped. (Lauch says a component of this support system “looked like it had some pitting and some corrosion,” but the cause is still under investigation.)

With these support arms, “we’re finding that there is some corrosion on them,” especially where they stand beside sections of highway and get a lot of salty road spray, he said.

As RTM assessed that, another train became immobilized east of Tremblay, “and this was related to the earlier wire damage,” Transpo says. Off walked the passengers, in came the R1 buses to replace all train service in the east end.

Then a third train lost power at uOttawa Station at 7:20 p.m., forcing all trains to share a single track past that area and slowing service. A fourth train suffered a door problem that took it out of service at about 8:45 p.m. More delay.

Full service was finally restored with a reduced number of trains after midnight.

Thursday began with nine trains in service. (Transpo: “Vehicle availability was challenged.”) But a power issue knocked out one train before 6 a.m. and another by 6:45 a.m. That left seven.

Another train broke down just before the 11 a.m. media session; causes weren’t immediately known.

And then there were six. And none of the damage was caused by the storm.

Four of the breakdowns were the familiar “power issues.” This is centred on the inductors, the rooftop devices that take power from the overhead lines and channel it into the train. Inductors have been suffering from dirt and salt which cause arcing, and sometimes makes the circuit breakers shut down power to a train. When this happens, a train must be taken out of service for inspection.

In one case Thursday, passengers had to walk about 15 metres through the tunnel outside Rideau Station, with escorts.

Paramedics had to help one passenger evacuated from a train near Tremblay on Wednesday night when she had a panic attack.

Lauch said RTM is gradually toughening up trains by putting covers on inductors to keep out dirt and salt from road spray, and so far it has performed this on 19 of the 34 cars, meaning there are enough upgrades for eight complete trains of two cars each. “Right now as we’re speaking, they are being put on six more” cars. “Another eight to 10 days and they should all be done.”

He added: “They are good vehicles.”

Transpo has responded to the shortage of trains by extending S1 and R1 bus service. The homeward-bound S1 service started at 1 p.m. and R1 buses were scheduled to run parallel to the trains all through Thursday, but Transpo said service “will be fragile.”

Wright-Gilbert said in a radio interview that the news conference was “the regular refrain from RTM” that “we’re looking into it,” but the root causes still have not been found.

“These trains are cheap (and) they are not designed for our climate,” she said. “In my experience, the cheapest option is not always the best option and anyone who orders from Amazon could tell you that that’s true.”
“I haven’t been satisfied with RTG/RTM since they started speaking publicly … RTM is not doing their job. There’s no other way to say this; they’re not doing their job.”

Catherine McKenney from Somerset ward said RTM continues “to fail to deliver anything close” to proper service.

Quote:
News conference over. RTG/RTM (aka SNC) continue to fail to deliver anything close to what we paid $2.1b plus $5m/mo for & no one seriously considering other options. I look forward to staff response to @ShawnMenard1 on real solutions #P3fail— Catherine McKenney (@cmckenney) February 27, 2020
Coun. Shawn Menard from Capital ward criticized the public-private partnership as a failure.

Quote:
Alstom is not providing the service we deserve and RTM is not holding them to account. Zero admission of the mistakes of a #P3Fail. Limited plan of action besides suffer through it. The Mayor need to get this under control quickly and perhaps listen to people he doesn’t like.— Shawn Menard (@ShawnMenard1) February 27, 2020
More to come.

[email protected]
twitter.com/TomSpears1

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-array-of-unrelated-failures-in-24-hours
     
     
  #14365  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 10:05 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by daud View Post
Everyone who criticized LRT or even asked a mere question about it that did not comply with the rosy sky scenario was shot down and attacked. Reporters, councillors, even people on this thread. Beautiful system for California-Ottawa in winter? Not so much.

Serious question...if we were to cover the whole line-even with a roof. What percentage of issues would be solved?
If I were to guess - Zero.

Toronto, Edmonton, Calgary and Kitchener/Waterloo all have overhead wires, and they function well. Well, most of the time.

I would say this is shoddy construction and rushed opening.
     
     
  #14366  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 10:24 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Corrosion issues?

Of course, Ottawa does depend on salt a lot to clear the roads because it is too expensive to pay plow operators. I have seen how plowing changed when former Highway 31 was downloaded to the city. Plowing deteriorated dramatically compared to the days of MTO.

Even then, how often did similar problems happen during the streetcar era? I expect the quality of components were a lot better back in those days. Everything was built to last back then including household appliances. I still have a 1954 Philco fridge operating in my basement while my main fridge is a piece of junk that has never functioned properly.
     
     
  #14367  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Corrosion issues?

Of course, Ottawa does depend on salt a lot to clear the roads because it is too expensive to pay plow operators. I have seen how plowing changed when former Highway 31 was downloaded to the city. Plowing deteriorated dramatically compared to the days of MTO.

Even then, how often did similar problems happen during the streetcar era? I expect the quality of components were a lot better back in those days. Everything was built to last back then including household appliances. I still have a 1954 Philco fridge operating in my basement while my main fridge is a piece of junk that has never functioned properly.
I thought fridges that old are illegal to operate due to the CFC issue.
     
     
  #14368  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 10:53 PM
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I thought fridges that old are illegal to operate due to the CFC issue.
Only if it has to be worked on. As long as it works, it is fine.
     
     
  #14369  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2020, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by daud View Post
Everyone who criticized LRT or even asked a mere question about it that did not comply with the rosy sky scenario was shot down and attacked. Reporters, councillors, even people on this thread. Beautiful system for California-Ottawa in winter? Not so much.
Oh yes. I remember Watson Club Councillors vigorously attacking those who questioned the process. And this trend continues.

But Menard is the bully for challenging the Mayor to run again amidst these issues....
     
     
  #14370  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 3:25 AM
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As much of a shitshow as Wednesday was, today (Thursday) was actually a decent day and has me feeling a bit more hopeful.

Before anyone jumps into say I am completely insane, let me explain.

Our two main recurring winter issues with the LRT have been:
1) frozen/disturbed switches
2) trains losing power due to the inductor issues.

So how did we do today?
1) Switches:
One switch problem near Blair around 7pm, but otherwise no reported switch issues, despite the heavy snow that was falling all day. They have apparently made some modifications; maybe they are working.

2) Inductors:
2 trains with line inductor failures early this morning (before 7am). Both these trains were reported to have not been equipped with the new inductor covers. The other trains that ran the rest of the day in heavy snow all have the covers installed and did not experience any power issues. This tells us that the inductor covers are an effective solution.

The biggest mistake that was made today was the decision to launch trains into service that didn't have the inductor covers installed. It was completely foreseeable that they would fail. There's lots of attention in the press about the number of trains, but it is better to launch a lower number that is likely to be reliable than to risk disruption from a stopped train.

OC has announced that for Friday AM there will be 8 trains on the line. This is the right approach- as long as there is any precipitation forecast, no train without the covers should be leaving the yard. Peter Lauch said today that 9 trains have the covers and they should be able to fully equip the fleet in 8-10 days. Get. It. Done.

Call me crazy, but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
     
     
  #14371  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 3:54 AM
TheMatth69 TheMatth69 is offline
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And another train just broke down tonight at Bayview... So what we're down to 5 now ? Incredible
     
     
  #14372  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 4:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post

Call me crazy, but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
You're crazy. And you'll have to get off the train and walk to the end of the tunnel to see that light.
     
     
  #14373  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 5:05 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Catherine McKenney was interviewed tonight on CBC News. She has gone beyond suggesting the replacement of RTM. She is now suggesting that we need to replace the trains.

Surely our trains can be made workable and reliable. Train replacement will be an extreme additional expense especially with Phase 2 already proceeding and additional trains being assembled. Trains are not exactly portable to other cities. They are custom built. It may be very difficult to sell the existing trains and receive a decent price.
     
     
  #14374  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 11:52 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Catherine McKenney was interviewed tonight on CBC News. She has gone beyond suggesting the replacement of RTM. She is now suggesting that we need to replace the trains.

Surely our trains can be made workable and reliable. Train replacement will be an extreme additional expense especially with Phase 2 already proceeding and additional trains being assembled. Trains are not exactly portable to other cities. They are custom built. It may be very difficult to sell the existing trains and receive a decent price.
Well she is implying we get a refund. I hope it's obvious we can't buy new trains and also pay for these.

They are a new train model. It is possible they are too "light" for this purpose and climate and will never work. Yes there are similar vehicles in similar climates but not usually so heavily used and therefore requiring such an absolute reliability.
     
     
  #14375  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 12:29 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Catherine McKenney was interviewed tonight on CBC News. She has gone beyond suggesting the replacement of RTM. She is now suggesting that we need to replace the trains.

Surely our trains can be made workable and reliable. Train replacement will be an extreme additional expense especially with Phase 2 already proceeding and additional trains being assembled. Trains are not exactly portable to other cities. They are custom built. It may be very difficult to sell the existing trains and receive a decent price.
When I see metal pannels being torn out and seriously dammaged due to just knocking off a transponder, I wonder if these trains can be saved.
     
     
  #14376  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 12:33 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
They are a new train model. It is possible they are too "light" for this purpose and climate and will never work. Yes there are similar vehicles in similar climates but not usually so heavily used and therefore requiring such an absolute reliability.
I don't think that's how this works...

Quote:
Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
When I see metal pannels being torn out and seriously dammaged due to just knocking off a transponder, I wonder if these trains can be saved.
It was the other way around. A loose panel knocked out transponders.
     
     
  #14377  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 12:36 PM
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Air fresheners in stinky Parliament station being removed
CBC found 22 fresheners installed above reach on pillars, ceilings

Laura Glowacki · CBC News
Posted: Feb 28, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 6 minutes ago




At least 22 air fresheners normally intended for bathrooms at the Parliament LRT station, notorious for its sewage-like smell, will be removed.

On Thursday, CBC found 12 of the continuously running fresheners installed above the westbound and eastbound platforms, while 10 more were attached to pillars and ceilings around the station and in the tunnels.

CBC reached out to the City of Ottawa and Rideau Transit Thursday afternoon for comment about the installation of the air fresheners.

Friday morning, after CBC published its stories, OC Transpo general manager John Manconi said he'd asked they be removed immediately.

For citizen transit commissioner Sarah Wright-Gilbert — who raised the issue of the station's stomach-turning sewage smell at a transit commission meeting in December — the air fresheners don't go far enough, however.

"I'm concerned that they're now pumping artificial scent and chemicals into the station. That's not helpful," Wright-Gilbert said Thursday.

"Masking the problem is not a solution. Finding the source of the problem and solving that — that's the solution."

Riders have complained about a foul odour at Parliament station for months, with Twitter user @LRTstank bringing it up in a tweet in October.

Good morning, I hope everyone is enjoying their commute! Remember, starting
Quote:
around Parliament, you can free-fart in stations and no one will be able to pinpoint who it is - a gift from me to you. You're welcome! #octranspo #ottlrt #lrtstank
Wright-Gilbert said she hasn't been in the station recently, but knowing there are air fresheners installed would lead her to avoid the station.

She said artificial smells can trigger her asthma and headaches.

"I'd like them to advise the public of that because people can get really sick if they are sensitive to scents," she said.

CBC did not see any type of warnings posted about the fresheners.

The air fresheners are made by Citron Hygiene and appear to be the company's EcoAire model. This model, according to the manufacturer's website, works best in washrooms with one to five toilet stalls.

The ones installed in Parliament station provide a sweet, citrusy smell.

"The EcoAire ... is an ideal choice for rooms with low ceilings and good airflow," says Citron's website.

In December, the city made repairs to a sewer line near Parliament station in an effort to close a leak discovered in August that was thought to be one cause of the stink.

At the time, the city said it could not promise the fix would eliminate the smell. As of Thursday, in areas a few metres away from the air fresheners, the station continued to have a musty odour.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/air-fresheners-parliament-station-1.5478539
     
     
  #14378  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 12:41 PM
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Councillors mull 'divorce' from LRT contractor after streak of bad service
Major delays Wednesday and Thursday prompt calls for 'something better'

Matthew Kupfer · CBC News
Posted: Feb 28, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 3 hours ago


Some Ottawa city councillors say it may be time to cut ties with Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM) after one of the worst performances of the Confederation Line since the LRT network launched five months ago.

Transit riders faced several delays in back-to-back commutes Wednesday and Thursday, with some passengers forced to disembark and walk along the rail bed.

Gloucester-South Nepean Coun. Carol Anne Meehan said the city's been let down by RTM, the maintenance arm of Rideau Transit Group, which built the $2.1-billion line.

"It's obvious that we've got ourselves a lemon — a cheap train that is not equipped for our weather," Meehan said.

"I'm not sure how much this is going to cost us, but I think the cost of continuing with this company is going to far outstrip what we're seeing right now."

Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said the escalating problems have him looking to put RTM on notice. He wants a timeline during which either RTM proves itself, or council decides whether to pull the plug.

"I'm not ready to rush into a courtroom today to say five months later, this is not working, we're going to get a divorce," he said.

Leiper said it appears structural engineering and computer system errors — from flattening wheels to falling electric wires — show that the current arrangement isn't working.

"I think we need to have a timeline where we say it's not working. The disruption that this is causing is massive."

Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney said they want to weigh options from an inquiry to city staff on what council can do about its 30-year contract with RTM.

"I would like to see us out of the contract, at the very least, with a different train," McKenney said. "They have been proven to be completely unreliable in winter conditions."

John Manconi, general manager of transit operations for the city, dismissed questions about reopening the RTM contract at Thursday's media availability about service issues.

"That's not what today's about. Today's about the single most important thing: customers and our staff that are at OC Transpo that are working 24/7 to get people to their destination," Manconi said.

Bay Ward Coun. Theresa Kavanagh, however, also said she'd also like council to explore its legal options.

"Do you get a separation, an annulment or a divorce in terms of what's happening here? This isn't working and we need something better," Kavanagh said.

"It's pretty clear that this was not tested as thoroughly as it should've been."

Kavanagh said the city may need to ask federal and provincial partners to help pay for getting service up to a decent standard.

Meehan, however, believes the city needs to show it can handle big projects.

"I think it's going to be a very tough sell when we go to the feds and the province, cap in hand, asking for funding for Stage 3 LRT," Meehan said.

"They're watching us and what we do with this is going to be important, going forward."

Progressive Conservative MPP Goldie Ghamari, who represents the riding of Carleton, said government members are hearing about the frustration with Ottawa's LRT.

"They want us to do something. The problem is, aside from us giving funding, this was a totally municipally-led project," Ghamari said.

"The City of Ottawa bears full responsibility for what they did. I want to let people in Ottawa know we are here and we are listening and the ministry is monitoring Phase 1 and Phase 2."

The Ontario NDP raised the LRT's problems during Question Period Thursday, noting it's an example of the failure of the public-private partnership (P3) model.

"Transit users today are stuck on platforms waiting for trains wondering how transit in Ottawa is ill-equipped to handle snow," said Jessica Bell, the party's transit critic.

Bell asked the government to put a mortatorium on "costly and risky" public-private partnerships until there's a review of the model's effectiveness.

Infrastructure Minister Laurie Scott defended them, however, citing a 2018 report that said the majority of the P3s under the jurisdiction of Infrastructure Ontario were completed on budget and on time.

The federal government has also provided funding for both Stage 1 and Stage 2 of Ottawa's LRT.

Orléans MP Marie-France Lalonde said she was delayed Thursday morning after getting caught behind a train that lost power at Tremblay station.

"Certainly the delay was certainly not pleasant. I don't think this was the intent of the LRT for the City of Ottawa," she said.

Lalonde said the city needs to learn from the mistakes plaguing the current system ahead of the extension that will run deep into her riding.

"We need to learn [what's causing] all these hiccups that we're seeing impacting our lives."

Ottawa West-Nepean MP Anita Vandenbeld said she also hopes mistakes won't be repeated when LRT is extended to Lincoln Fields and the Carling campus of the Department of National Defence in Stage 2.

"We do want LRT because it's going to take a lot of cars off the roads. It's going to reduce emissions. And for a lot of my constituents, it's going to really make their lives better — but it has to be reliable," she said.

Transport Minister Marc Garneau said he hasn't taken the LRT yet and — apart from acknowledging his department is in charge of safety regulations on the system — he declined to comment on the line's current issues.

At an exchange at the standing committee on transport, infrastructure and communities Thursday afternoon, NDP MP Taylor Bachrach asked Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna about the problems with the LRT.

"There are concerns with Ottawa's LRT," she said. "That is fair. And I think that as we reflect on how we move forward on infrastructure investments we need to be delivering for Canadians and all levels of government need to be working together to do that."

With files from Lisa Xing, Chris Rands and Adrian Harewood

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-lrt-political-reaction-1.5478847
     
     
  #14379  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 1:29 PM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Air fresheners in stinky Parliament station being removed
CBC found 22 fresheners installed above reach on pillars, ceilings

Laura Glowacki · CBC News
Posted: Feb 28, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 6 minutes ago


...........

Wright-Gilbert said she hasn't been in the station recently, but knowing there are air fresheners installed would lead her to avoid the station.

She said artificial smells can trigger her asthma and headaches.

"I'd like them to advise the public of that because people can get really sick if they are sensitive to scents," she said.

CBC did not see any type of warnings posted about the fresheners.

The air fresheners are made by Citron Hygiene and appear to be the company's EcoAire model. This model, according to the manufacturer's website, works best in washrooms with one to five toilet stalls.

The ones installed in Parliament station provide a sweet, citrusy smell.

.........

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/air-fresheners-parliament-station-1.5478539
BAD DAY !

Thanks to rocketphish for posting this......I was going to refer to it somehow.

THIS IS IMPORTANT to all who have allergies to CITRUS !

Whether it actually contains citrus or not, it is close enough to be of MAJOR concern.

ALL who are allergic MUST now avoid PARL station at the least, if not the whole damned tunnel section.

What gets me riled is NO WARNING. either in the station or via previous announcement of the measure. This is hazardous.

And no, I am not overreacting. From different walks in my life, I know 2 people with severe citrus allergy - life threatening to just be in the area of someone eating citrus.

CITY or RTM or Citron MUST release the fact of, and the ingredients to, these 'fresheners'. AND release their allergy evaluation.

Note to CITY - a HUGE FAIL !
     
     
  #14380  
Old Posted Feb 28, 2020, 3:15 PM
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Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
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Originally Posted by PHrenetic View Post
THIS IS IMPORTANT to all who have allergies to CITRUS !
Seems like the LRT is a huge lemon lots of people are avoiding
     
     
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