New BC Political Discussion - POST BC Election 2017

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Surprised nobody mentioned this yet, Andrew Weaver is leaving the Green Party altogether to sit as an Independent. He cites "family health reasons" but that seems odd:

Les Leyne: In search of clues to why Andrew Weaver is leaving the Green Party
Les Leyne / Times Colonist
JANUARY 16, 2020 06:00 AM

...Apart from the dominant family issue, he also cited concerns about the Green Party’s “need to develop a new vision and voice independent from mine.”

“My presence in the B.C. Green caucus could hinder that independence,” Weaver said.

He seems to have been grappling with that for months, since this is the second big adjustment to his retirement plans. He originally planned to step aside after a new leader was picked later this year. Then he moved it up to January. Now he’s vacating entirely.

He must have considered quitting politics entirely. But the party standings are so close that a byelection could upend the entire government. He must have considered just taking a personal time-out, and letting his two colleagues cover for him in Oak Bay-Gordon Head.

But he opted to sever all ties.

There was one overlooked clue to his move.

In a year-end interview with Maclean Kay, of the online Orca political journal, Weaver laid his cards on the table.

“The day I am no longer leader, I will go non-partisan. I didn’t join a party until I was a member of the Green Party, and I will resign my membership.”

In the same interview, he vented a degree of frustration with the party that he propelled into the legislature. “It’s really been really tough with the Green Party,” Weaver said. “Probably, the most difficult part is the level of political naivety. I see it all the time as I see these incredibly well-meaning Green supporters on Twitter who are … I mean, it’s a lovely level of naivety. It’s lovely. I mean, it’s lovely in that I wish there was more of this, but it’s a bit like the Christians being fed to the lions.”...

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/co...er-is-leaving-the-green-party-1.24053835

Interesting. Sounds like several Greens are unhappy with how much Weaver has compromised with the NDP. I know Weaver has raised several objections over LNG among other projects. It makes me wonder if the next leader will refuse to support the NDP unless the NDP toes the Green line. Probably a lot of the wealthier Green supporters (aka those donating all the party's funding) are unhappy with the speculation tax among others because they are the ones most likely to have a second home/cabin/oceanfront home near nature.

[WarrenC12]

Weaver had a health scare last year. That and he's always advocated term limits.

If the Green party is stabbing him in the back, that's assinine. He's the reason they exist at any level in BC.

[misher]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Weaver had a health scare last year. That and he's always advocated term limits.

If the Green party is stabbing him in the back, that's assinine. He's the reason they exist at any level in BC.

I agree.

But I also understand. People who vote Green tend to be the ones who stubbornly don't compromise (they could vote for one of the two parties that will win). So Weaver's compromise with the NDP has likely upset a lot of them.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In the same interview, he vented a degree of frustration with the party that he propelled into the legislature. “It’s really been really tough with the Green Party,” Weaver said. “Probably, the most difficult part is the level of political naivety. I see it all the time as I see these incredibly well-meaning Green supporters on Twitter who are … I mean, it’s a lovely level of naivety. It’s lovely. I mean, it’s lovely in that I wish there was more of this, but it’s a bit like the Christians being fed to the lions.”...[/I]

https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/co...er-is-leaving-the-green-party-1.24053835

I'm sure being quoted in the press with that message went over well with the other Greens.

[Tetsuo]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Weaver had a health scare last year. That and he's always advocated term limits.

If the Green party is stabbing him in the back, that's assinine. He's the reason they exist at any level in BC.

Myself, and many others voted Green in the last election due to Weaver's competence. Less idealogic and more pragmatic

If they go the route of Greens of old, or even the national level Green party, won't be voting for them next election.

Godspeed Weaver !

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

Probably a lot of the wealthier Green supporters (aka those donating all the party's funding) are unhappy with the speculation tax among others because they are the ones most likely to have a second home/cabin/oceanfront home near nature.

I'd argue that it'd be the ones who think Site C and the Kitimat plant should be nixed and replaced with a million solar panels.

[misher]

As I said the newest Green shuffle might be because they are unhappy with Weaver supporting the NDP as the NDP haven't been practically better for the environment than the previous government.

Greens have given a big boost to Horgan
But Furstenau could face a problem in the general election because the B.C. Greens have not vigorously opposed the B.C. NDP government's most controversial measures.

In 2017, the B.C. Green and B.C. NDP caucuses signed a confidence and supply agreement that didn't stop Premier John Horgan from proceeding with the $10.7-billion farmland-destroying Site C dam.

Sure, the B.C. Greens have criticized the $40-billion LNG Canada plant and Coastal GasLink pipeline. But they haven't been at the forefront of public protests and they haven't tried to bring the NDP government down over this issue.

Moreover, the B.C. Greens did not bring forward legislative proposals around environmental assessments that could have given Indigenous people real decision-making power. Had they done this, perhaps they could have helped thwart the $9.3-billion Trans Mountain pipeline project.

In fact, the B.C. Greens have come across in the public eye as partners of Horgan, even though he sometimes comes across as less environmentally inclined than former B.C. Liberal premier Gordon Campbell.

This partnership was reflected in interim B.C. Green Leader Adam Olsen's statement about a recent Horgan cabinet shuffle.

“The B.C. Green Caucus welcomes Ministers [Bruce] Ralston, [Michelle] Mungall and [Anne] Kang to their new cabinet portfolios, and we look forward to working with them to advance British Columbia into the 2020s,” he said. “B.C.’s economy is primed to capitalize on the opportunities that arise from the emerging economy.'

Olsen remarked on the removal of the name "technology" from Ralston's former ministry, which was turned over to Mungall, but not in a seriously critical way.

"We have a unique opportunity in this province to harness innovation to build a resilient and sustainable economy—we cannot let this pass us by,” Olsen added.

What have the B.C. Greens got in return for this partnership?

Admittedly, there's been good progress on addressing fish farms on the migratory routes for wild salmon. There's more due diligence in environmental assessments by professional experts. And the NDP government banned the hunting of grizzly bears.

But a resilient and sustainable economy? From a government led by Horgan? Come on.

https://www.straight.com/news/1354246/bc...nau-needs-put-bc-ndp-government-hot-seat

[misher]

Unfortunately large increases in debt in the latest budget. As a nation we literally cannot allow interest rates to rise now because both the government and people are too reliant on debt.

Over the next three fiscal years, B.C.’s taxpayer-supported debt-to-GDP ratio is projected to reach 17.1% (2022-23), up from 14.6% in 2019-20. The taxpayer-supported debt-to-revenue ratio is expected to reach 94.4% in three years’ time, up from 77.9% in 2019-20.

Also new income taxes.

The B.C. NDP government is adding another high-income tax measure this year, a new top marginal rate of 20.5 per cent.



in her first full budget in 2018, James restored a top tax bracket that had been put in place by the previous B.C. Liberal government for two years. She reimposed a two-per-cent increase that applies to income of more than $150,000 a year.

The latest increases push total income tax for high-income earners close to 50 per cent, combining federal and provincial income tax rates. As of 2019, B.C.’s top combined federal and provincial personal income tax rate is 49.8 per cent, applying to income of $150,000 and up. That’s about 13 per cent higher than the rate in Washington and Alaska, neither of which has a state income tax.

https://www.surreynowleader.com/business/budget-2020-b-c-ndp-taps-top-tax-bracket-for-more-revenue/

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by misher

Unfortunately large increases in debt in the latest budget. As a nation we literally cannot allow interest rates to rise now because both the government and people are too reliant on debt.

So in other words, we're going to remain at levels half the national average. Not super worrying to me; Government debt doesn't work the same way as household debt.

[misher]

Originally Posted by chowhou

So in other words, we're going to remain at levels half the national average. Not super worrying to me; Government debt doesn't work the same way as household debt.

Remember what happened under Mulroney once he was forced to deal with debt of the previous Liberal goverment and high interest rates?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by misher

Remember what happened under Mulroney once he was forced to deal with debt of the previous Liberal goverment and high interest rates?

Sorry, I wasn't born

In general it doesn't seem like Canada did too poorly under the Mulroney government, 20% interest notwithstanding.

[misher]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Sorry, I wasn't born

In general it doesn't seem like Canada did too poorly under the Mulroney government, 20% interest notwithstanding.

He was very underappreciated. He cut a lot of trim from the budget and the only debt we took on was because no matter what he cut, he still had to deal with massive annual debt payments and he couldn't afford them. Everyone hated the cuts but he was forced to cut much more than he intended to afford the interest payments on the debt the Liberals rang up.

My fear has never been today's debt. Its tomorrow's interest rate increase. Can you imagine how we can afford our debt if interest increases to 7% and repayments double? We need to payoff debt in a good economy! not double down on more debt! Debt is around 8% of our budget, can you imagine if interest rates doubled and another 8% (the same amount as we pay for national defence) is needed?

Right now the Liberals are taking on more debt and spending like crazy. This isn't a Conservative or Liberal thing, this is bloody common sense. If we don't repay our debt now when things are good we never will. Don't keep saying we're investing in the future, we've been using that excuse for many decades, this is the future. We have a good economy and can afford to cut some fat, lets start paying back the debts of our forefathers instead of leaving a bundle of crap for our kids.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by misher

He was very underappreciated. He cut a lot of trim from the budget and the only debt we took on was because no matter what he cut, he still had to deal with massive annual debt payments and he couldn't afford them. Everyone hated the cuts but he was forced to cut much more than he intended to afford the interest payments on the debt the Liberals rang up.

My fear has never been today's debt. Its tomorrow's interest rate increase. Can you imagine how we can afford our debt if interest increases to 7% and repayments double? We need to payoff debt in a good economy! not double down on more debt! Debt is around 8% of our budget, can you imagine if interest rates doubled and another 8% (the same amount as we pay for national defence) is needed?

Right now the Liberals are taking on more debt and spending like crazy. This isn't a Conservative or Liberal thing, this is bloody common sense. If we don't repay our debt now when things are good we never will.

I think you're downplaying the severity of the recession during the early 80s, and overstating BC's current debt load. Compared to most of the western world we (BC) have very little debt. When is the right time to hold debt in your opinion?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Correct. When has a country ever managed to pay off all its debt, and without cost to growth? Spending is fine, so long as it's controlled and has a decent return - GDP almost doubled under Mulroney, and again under Chretien.

And are we talking about federal debt or provincial debt? The latter isn't particularly high right now.

[mezzanine]

Overall I think this a good budget.

If anything a lot of debt here is being used for capital projects, and to a lesser degree, the capital grant for post-secondary students. This is what we should be doing, borrowing and investing in capital projects now, when interest rates are low to hep the province in the future.

----

I will be greatly affected by the carbonated beverage tax , but i'll probably drink less of them i guess...

These include $1.9 billion in new or seismically upgraded schools, $1.2 billion for an upgraded Royal Columbian Hospital, $1.3 billion for the new Pattullo Bridge, $2.8 billion for the Millennium Line extension to Vancouver's Arbutus Street, and $6 billion for the Site C dam.

[rofina]

First time I ever voted NDP this past Provincial election. Glad I did. I actually think this budget mostly makes sense. Few gripes here and there, but there always are, overall I think the NDP is doing us well.

Wilkinson is also so insanely unlikable and out of touch that it helps the NDP cause. Really the whole provincial Liberal part needs a good purge.

[misher]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I think you're downplaying the severity of the recession during the early 80s, and overstating BC's current debt load. Compared to most of the western world we (BC) have very little debt. When is the right time to hold debt in your opinion?

Canadian debt (if you include municipal, provincial, federal) is comparable to the US's massive debt. I don't think we should be running up debt similar to a nation at war.

[Migrant_Coconut]

A nation at war has a federal debt in the high nineties, like we did in 1915 and the States in '45. Let's not make mountains out of molehills just because we're borrowing to build a new dam.

Originally Posted by rofina

Wilkinson is also so insanely unlikable and out of touch that it helps the NDP cause. Really the whole provincial Liberal part needs a good purge.

Yeah, approve or disapprove of Horgan, anybody who considers renting a "wacky time of life" and domestic abuse a "tough marriage" is highly unlikely to be a better premier.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Sorry, I wasn't born

In general it doesn't seem like Canada did too poorly under the Mulroney government, 20% interest notwithstanding.

Apparently Misher wasn't around then either, as it was the Chretien Liberals who had to slay the deficit left to them by the outgoing Mulroney Government:

[IMG]debt by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]
https://www.reddit.com/r/LPC/comments/blu8hn/percent_of_canadas_201718_debt_contributed_per/

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Apparently Misher wasn't around then either, as it was the Chretien Liberals who had to slay the deficit left to them by the outgoing Mulroney Government:

[IMG]debt by whatnextyvr, on Flickr[/IMG]
https://www.reddit.com/r/LPC/comments/blu8hn/percent_of_canadas_201718_debt_contributed_per/

What you may not realize (even though I and others have told you this before) is that Mulroney's deficit came almost exclusively from servicing the debt of the previous Liberal government at a 20%+ interest rate. Mulroney ran fiscally conservative budgets at a time when interest rates went crazy. Most Canadians know this and I think most modern Liberals respect Mulroney for his environmental and fiscal conservatism. He honestly should be leading today's Liberal party.