VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Because the Ocean is up to 20 cars long in the summer and its usually sold out. By going the other route you eliminate the majority of the customer base so in turn you would only need a handful of coaches and maybe a service car.

Via used to have an RDC service on the NTR between Moncton and Edmundston. It has been gone for 30+ years for a reason.

Right now there is nothing running every second day as the Ocean only runs once ever 2 days. Leave that as is. It is one train and it is running back and forth between Montreal and Halifax.

On the opposite days, have a train doing through Saint John. Even if it is half the length, the Ocean is still not affected.

I wonder if the reason it was cancelled is the same reason we don't have the southern The Canadian route in the prairies.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

These timetables are fascinating as you see a lot of communities that no longer have rail service. I'm curious on how Sydney fits into the Ocean run - was it a rendezvous situation whereby passengers from a train coming from Sydney disembarked at some location (Truro?) and boarded the Ocean? Then I also see Charlottetown in the schedule - how did that work?

Thanks very much for posting these.

The westbound Ocean from Halifax would arrive at Truro where the through cars from Sydney to Montreal would be added.

Eastbound it was just the opposite.....trains would split at Truro.

Charlottetown was served a bus that connected with the trains in Amherst. But if you go back to the '50s....there was a sleeper between Charlottetown and Montreal that was added to the Ocean at Moncton. There was a train between Moncton and Charlottetown that lasted until 1968 (but not the through sleeper) The train was carried on the ferry between NB and PEI.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

On the opposite days, have a train doing through Saint John. Even if it is half the length, the Ocean is still not affected.

That would be the route of the old Atlantic Ltd and I can just imagine the hassles at the US Border now. The train would have to cross the border twice in each direction

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

That would be the route of the old Atlantic Ltd and I can just imagine the hassles at the US Border now. The train would have to cross the border twice in each direction

actually, I am talking about the CN line that goes north to Edmunston. Now that I look at it, it does not connect to Saint John.

Well, maybe it is time to resurrect the old Atlantic, or put the tracks back in between the 2.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well, maybe it is time to resurrect the old Atlantic, or put the tracks back in between the 2.

The tracks are all still in and in fact….CP is in the process of re-acquiring the section west of Brownville Jct. Maine from the CMQ. But as I said can you just imagine the hassles and delays with two border crossings each way.

In the last couple of years the Atlantic operated.....it took just as long between Halifax and Montreal as the Ocean did even though the route was shorter.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

actually, I am talking about the CN line that goes north to Edmunston. Now that I look at it, it does not connect to Saint John.

Well, maybe it is time to resurrect the old Atlantic, or put the tracks back in between the 2.

Or are you talking about tracks between Saint John and Edmundston?

NBSR has a line that passes through Fredericton Jct.....but the tracks have been removed into Fredericton. Then you would have to cross the river then onto McGivney. Those tracks have been removed also so about 50 miles of tracks to be relayed. At McGivney....you would meet the NTR to Edmundston.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

The westbound Ocean from Halifax would arrive at Truro where the through cars from Sydney to Montreal would be added.

Eastbound it was just the opposite.....trains would split at Truro.

Charlottetown was served a bus that connected with the trains in Amherst. But if you go back to the '50s....there was a sleeper between Charlottetown and Montreal that was added to the Ocean at Moncton. There was a train between Moncton and Charlottetown that lasted until 1968 (but not the through sleeper) The train was carried on the ferry between NB and PEI.

Wow... cool. I would not have guessed. Must have made the stopovers at those locations quite long, while they jockeyed the cars around.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Charlottetown was served a bus that connected with the trains in Amherst. But if you go back to the '50s....there was a sleeper between Charlottetown and Montreal that was added to the Ocean at Moncton. There was a train between Moncton and Charlottetown that lasted until 1968 (but not the through sleeper) The train was carried on the ferry between NB and PEI.

I remember this train very well. My father worked for CNR on PEI, and we used to take the train everywhere to travel when I was a kid.

The train was a mixed train, which meant a passenger car added on to the end of a freight train. At some point towards the end, they used a Budd car. The process of loading the train onto the ferry was fascinating.

At different points, we made connections in Moncton or Amherst. I believe earlier on it was Moncton, and it was really interesting arriving at the station at the same time as two other passenger trains so that connections could be made. It made the Moncton railway station seem really lively.

Later on the connection was at Amherst (I certainly remember the bus), which was pretty deadly boring. For some reason, we would tend to end up waiting three hours or so for the connecting train to arrive. There was nothing for a bored kid to do at the Amherst station.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Wow... cool. I would not have guessed. Must have made the stopovers at those locations quite long, while they jockeyed the cars around.

Around a half-hour...... but you stayed right in your car while it was moved from one train to the other.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

The tracks are all still in and in fact….CP is in the process of re-acquiring the section west of Brownville Jct. Maine from the CMQ. But as I said can you just imagine the hassles and delays with two border crossings each way.

In the last couple of years the Atlantic operated.....it took just as long between Halifax and Montreal as the Ocean did even though the route was shorter.

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Or are you talking about tracks between Saint John and Edmundston?

NBSR has a line that passes through Fredericton Jct.....but the tracks have been removed into Fredericton. Then you would have to cross the river then onto McGivney. Those tracks have been removed also so about 50 miles of tracks to be relayed. At McGivney....you would meet the NTR to Edmundston.

Either or. Basically a second route servicing the East Coast might be a good thing.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Either or. Basically a second route servicing the East Coast might be a good thing.

Spend the money that it would take to develop a second route on the Newcastle Sub to get it back to an acceptable track speed.....and you've already got the population there to support the service.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Around a half-hour...... but you stayed right in your car while it was moved from one train to the other.

That's really neat. Thanks!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I remember this train very well. My father worked for CNR on PEI, and we used to take the train everywhere to travel when I was a kid.

The train was a mixed train, which meant a passenger car added on to the end of a freight train. At some point towards the end, they used a Budd car. The process of loading the train onto the ferry was fascinating.

At different points, we made connections in Moncton or Amherst. I believe earlier on it was Moncton, and it was really interesting arriving at the station at the same time as two other passenger trains so that connections could be made. It made the Moncton railway station seem really lively.

Later on the connection was at Amherst (I certainly remember the bus), which was pretty deadly boring. For some reason, we would tend to end up waiting three hours or so for the connecting train to arrive. There was nothing for a bored kid to do at the Amherst station.

Thanks for sharing your memories. Unfortunately I didn't take a train until the 1990s, so I missed all that.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Right now there is nothing running every second day as the Ocean only runs once ever 2 days. Leave that as is. It is one train and it is running back and forth between Montreal and Halifax.

On the opposite days, have a train doing through Saint John. Even if it is half the length, the Ocean is still not affected.

I wonder if the reason it was cancelled is the same reason we don't have the southern The Canadian route in the prairies.

The ocean runs 3 days a week. So every second day except for Tuesday

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ghYHZ

Spend the money that it would take to develop a second route on the Newcastle Sub to get it back to an acceptable track speed.....and you've already got the population there to support the service.

By doing that, you are ignoring the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in New Brunswick.

Originally Posted by J81

The ocean runs 3 days a week. So every second day except for Tuesday

Yup.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

By doing that, you are ignoring the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in New Brunswick.

Not to mention the second and third largest cities are growing in population whilst the areas The Ocean currently runs through are not.

And before anyone says "actually...", Bathurst and Miramichi CAs may be treading water but the rural areas around them are certainly emptying out. Highly unlikely the passenger base they have today will be the same in twenty years, although i'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.

The same goes for Gaspesie.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Thanks for sharing your memories. Unfortunately I didn't take a train until the 1990s, so I missed all that.

I'm not sure if QNS&L still runs mixed trains in Quebec and Labrador, but Keewatin Railway still operates a mixed train from The Pas to Pukatawagan in Northern Manitoba... it's the last VIA affiliated mixed train left.

I took the mixed train from The Pas up to Lynn Lake back in 1995 when the tracks used to extend that far... it was like a throwback to the 1950s. Almost a whole day crawling along at what seemed like a jogging pace to go maybe 450 km.

[Franco401]

If passenger rail was ever restored in Fredericton it'll require new tracks to be laid, and the place to do it isn't the old ROW.

[ghYHZ]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

By doing that, you are ignoring the 2nd and 3rd largest cities in New Brunswick.

Yup.

So where is the money coming from to build 90 to 100 km of new track on a new right-of-way to link Saint John through Fredericton to McGivney?.... And what would be the cost of a new bridge over the Saint John River at Fredericton?

[ghYHZ]

Best option is probably an Intercity Train linking Saint John to the Ocean at Moncton....and if the NTR ever got a passenger train.....a bus from Fredericton to McGivney