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  #14181  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2020, 5:46 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
I was surprised to see that outdoor switches don’t seem to have natural gas heating. What did they expect? To keep them clear of packed snow and ice requires a lot of heat or someone sitting there cleaning them out.
There are switch heaters but they are electric. (This one, maybe?)

At the last transit commission meeting, John Manconi strongly suggested that the solution to the switch issue will be to install a heat tracer wire in addition to the blower, but that will likely require extra hydro power.
     
     
  #14182  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2020, 6:20 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
There are switch heaters but they are electric. (This one, maybe?)

At the last transit commission meeting, John Manconi strongly suggested that the solution to the switch issue will be to install a heat tracer wire in addition to the blower, but that will likely require extra hydro power.
That should have been apparent last winter during testing and a solution found already and implemented. I am getting the feeling that we were cutting corners to save money and this is coming back to haunt us now.
     
     
  #14183  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2020, 8:27 PM
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On the subject of the Bywash, it crossed Rideau Street at Mosgrove, which is now the main entrance into the Rideau Centre and The Bay and immediately above Rideau Station. The Bywash was also the reason why King Edward Avenue was designed as a boulevard. The Bywash ran down the middle of the centre boulevard, which after it was filled in became a linear park and walkway. Building a tunnel under King Edward Avenue could have similar results.

Here is a link to an 1874 map showing the Bywash. Click on the map to get a bigger image.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/3sby1i/1874_map_of_the_city_of_ottawa/
     
     
  #14184  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2020, 9:58 PM
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  #14185  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2020, 10:39 PM
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Builder skipped approval step during first crack at LRT completion, documents suggest
"The Confederation Line as a whole was not ready for the safe use and enjoyment of the city and the public."

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 8, 2020


The Rideau Transit Group in spring 2019 didn’t get an important go-ahead before the consortium first claimed to have met the requirements for a completed $2.1-billion Confederation Line, according to city documents.

RTG’s first attempt at achieving “substantial completion” and finally collecting the $59 million the city was holding back until the job was done didn’t pass the scrutiny of the city and an independent certifier.

Documents released recently by the city in response to an access-to-information request last August suggest RTG didn’t receive the blessing from a team of senior RTG and city rail construction staff tasked with reviewing contract requirements and outstanding issues in the lead up to substantial completion. RTG went ahead and filed the notice of substantial completion anyway.

That didn’t fly with the city.

RTG sent the notice on April 26, 2019 and the city reviewed it by the end of day April 29.

The city sent an opinion letter to RTG on May 6.

“In the substantial completion notice, (RTG) alleges that the notice is the result of the conclusions drawn from the project agreement compliance working group. This is incorrect,” the city wrote to RTG. “This working group did not conclude that substantial completion had been achieved as of April 29, 2019.”

RTG wasn’t able to respond to request for comment by deadline Thursday as the consortium prepared LRT operations for an expected winter storm.

According to the city’s letter, there were “significant outstanding issues that remain unresolved.”

The documents then itemize those significant issues.

However, the public isn’t allowed to know what parts of the project the city found incomplete. The city redacted about nine pages of details, citing provisions of municipal access law.

The request was for letters produced by the O-Train construction office and sent to RTG on the topic of non-compliance or non-conformance of construction and testing over a period of 20 months ending last Aug. 16.

Dozens of other pages in the package were fully redacted, in addition to the parts that were redacted in the city’s letter on substantial completion.

The city cited several reasons under the municipal access-to-information law for keeping the information secret, including those related to the release of sensitive technical and financial information, negotiations by the organization and the protection of the city’s economic interests.

To achieve substantial completion, RTG had to prove that all rail infrastructure and the Alstom Citadis Spirit trains were ready for use. Some minor outstanding issues could be permitted, such as landscaping and fixes to minor deficiencies, but nothing that would impact the operational readiness and public use of the LRT system.

While the city wouldn’t disclose its concerns written in the letter, O-Train construction director Michael Morgan this week offered a general observation about RTG’s first notice of substantial completion.

Morgan said, “the status of completion of many critical items in respect to both components was such that the Confederation Line as a whole was not ready for the safe use and enjoyment of the city and the public.”

The independent certifier, who was an outside consultant hired by both RTG and the city, sided with the city and RTG didn’t get the $59 million.

Around that time, city officials were open about their concerns regarding the readiness of the trains. Mayor Jim Watson even summoned the CEO of Alstom to his city hall office to put pressure on the train manufacturer and RTG subcontractor.

RTG sent another substantial completion notice on July 22, 2019, this time leading to an agreement between the company, the city and an independent certifier that all the conditions had been met. The $59 million was finally RTG’s. It led to a period of trial running, RTG receiving a contractually owed $202-million handover payment and, on Sept. 14, the opening of the LRT system.

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https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...rack-at-lrt-completion-documents-suggest
     
     
  #14186  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 2:38 AM
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The City of Ottawa has just released a Memo regarding payments to RTG/RTM. https://otrainfans.ca/news/memo-rtg-rtm-payments

Contains explanations of how the payments, deductions and monthly structure is setup. If this topic interests you, I encourage you to read the memo, as it contains enough detail that doing a Cole's Notes version here may inadvertently omit important points.
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  #14187  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
City paid LRT contractor $4.5M despite claims to the contrary
RTM received payment for September, city now confirms


Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Feb 08, 2020 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago


After weeks of declaring it hadn't paid a penny for LRT maintenance since the glitch-plagued Confederation Line launch, it turns out the City of Ottawa did fork over $4.5 million last fall.

The city was "contractually obligated" to pay Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM) for the month of September, according to Troy Charter, OC Transpo's director of operations. But that's not what city officials have been saying for months.

Following a transit commission meeting on Nov. 6, OC Transpo boss John Manconi told reporters the city would be holding back funds from RTM for "September and then October."

"Also, the mayor told us we're not paying them until this is rectified," Manconi added at the time.

As recently as mid-January, during a news conference about a downed electrical cable, Charter said: "RTM, I don't believe, has received a monthly payment."

But that turned out to be untrue. On Friday, Charter confirmed an invoice for $4,562,000 was paid to RTM in mid- to late-November, adding "they haven't received a penny since then."

RTM, an extension of Rideau Transit Group, the consortium that built the $2.1-billion Confederation Line, is responsible for keeping it in good working order for 30 years, a contract worth $1 billion over its decades-long lifespan.

The city pays RTM month by month, but there are certain performance measures the company needs to meet to be paid in full; for example, the trains must travel a minimum number of kilometres.

Because the Confederation Line has experienced a litany of delays, shortages and service interruptions, the city maintained RTM hadn't been paid since the system opened its doors to the public in mid-September.

But what hasn't been known until now is that the contract compelled the city to pay RTM for that first month, no matter what. Any issues that arise are to result in deductions in subsequent months.

Asked why the city didn't appear to understand this, or at least failed to clearly convey this detail to the public, Charter said: "We have been following all the requirements under the [project agreement] and we're leveraging everything we can to make sure that they are providing that reliable service that our customers expect."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/city-lrt-rtm-4-5m-september-1.5456093
I don't have a problem with RTM receiving a payment in September. The train worked fine during those first few weeks. My problem once again is with the City lying to the public about it. Who's responsible? Oh yeah!

I am ultimately accountable
- Steve Kanallakos
     
     
  #14188  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 8:15 PM
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Ottawa councillors furious about LRT maintenance payment to Rideau Transit Group

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: February 9, 2020


News that the City of Ottawa paid Rideau Transit Management $4.5 million after saying earlier that all monthly payments were being held back has poured gasoline on smouldering public resentment about the problem-plagued light-rail system.

The city said in early November it was holding back payments until RTM improved service in light rail — which had broken down trains again both Saturday and Sunday on a bone-chilling Winterlude weekend.

But city officials confirmed a CBC report that the city did make one payment of $4.5 million in September, because its contract only allows payment cancellations from October onward.

That was news to many on city council, and to transit riders, who were vocal on Twitter.

City manager Steve Kanellakos issued a statement clarifying that transit boss John Manconi had told some reporters of the payment in a scrum, though not until December. Manconi said at the time: “So the concession just started. They’re not going to get October. They’re not going to get November. And now we’re into December. They had a payment for I believe for the tail-end of September, which that’s the way the payment mechanism works and then you adjust from that point on.”

Councillors, however, said they knew nothing of the early payment until now.

“The thing that we’ve been told is that we have been withholding payments from RTM,” said Coun. Carol Anne Meehan from Gloucester-South Nepean. “Why didn’t they tell us that? Why didn’t Manconi say we want to hold back but the contract says that we have to pay this in September?

“It’s baffling. I’m frustrated and a lot of us are frustrated.”

Councillors were talking back and forth about the news on Saturday, she said. “We’re all: ‘What do we do? What do we do?’ ”

The eventual city explanation didn’t make Meehan any happier.

“Yes, (I) read the memo,” she wrote in an email. “They want it to be clear as mud. ‘Gee, no one is at fault here. Sorry if you didn’t hear the answer or misunderstood.’ ” She called the explanation “flimsy and unacceptable and par for the course on the whole contract.”

Meehan and Capital Coun. Shawn Menard have a motion going to council this Wednesday calling for an outside audit of the way the LRT contracts have been handled.

“They don’t have the proper answer,” Meehan said. “You know that movie where (someone says) ‘You can’t handle the truth?’ That’s exactly what we’re getting here on council: ‘You guys can’t handle the truth. We’ve written the procurement rules in such a way to shut you out of this.’ ”

“This has eroded the trust that a lot of councillors have in our senior managers.”

“Every week we seem to get hit with something new.”

Menard accused city officials of “half-truths and evasion.”

Quote:
Finally, and most importantly, the leadership in the city must realize that change is needed. Closing ranks and continuing to have half-truths and evasion will only make this problem worse. Time to wake up and demand change.— Shawn Menard (@ShawnMenard1) February 8, 2020
Sarah Wright-Gilbert, a citizen transit commissioner, was also surprised by news of the payment and upset even after the city’s explanation.

“This latest revelation regarding the payment to RTM is further proof that the City of Ottawa and OC Transpo struggle with transparency,” she wrote. “Public trust in OC Transpo and the City of Ottawa is at an all time low and using semantics such as ‘no lies were told, you simply weren’t fully informed’ do little to repair lost trust.

“Once OCT became aware that they were contractually obligated to pay for the month of September, clarifications should have been issued to media and the Transit Commission.”

She added on Twitter that “what the memo doesn’t tell us is why we weren’t told about this contractually obligated payment once it was made. The messaging from the city had consistently been ‘we aren’t paying RTM a penny’ which, as we now know, wasn’t true.”

At least two councillors — Scott Moffatt and Jeff Leiper — posted the full Kanellakos statement on Twitter.

Moffatt said it “confirms nobody lied,” but the city should have communicated better.

Quote:
Right, but there are two separate issues here. Being lied to is a far more serious allegation than not being fully informed. Being fully informed likely involves painstaking details but likely necessary at this point. The memo, more importantly, confirms nobody lied.— Scott Moffatt (@ScottMoffatt21) February 9, 2020
Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney tweeted that council must act or it would be “wilful neglect:”

Quote:
I’ve thought about this all day and am very bothered by this latest revelation of misinformation and omission of information/ facts to Council & the public. Inaction now on the part of Council could be viewed as wilful neglect. https://t.co/36YObBUcyM— Catherine McKenney (@cmckenney) February 9, 2020
This newspaper asked the communications official for Mayor Jim Watson whether the mayor knew of the payment, and what should be done to keep council informed. We were told: “Mayor Watson is not available at the moment but I invite you to read the memo from the City Manager, shedding light in the situation.”

Transit riders were upset as well.

Quote:
I'm leaning towards guillotine at this point.— John Smith (@JohnSmi22189376) February 9, 2020
Meanwhile, LRT service was disrupted and replaced by R1 buses Saturday morning. There were also delays Sunday morning, as passengers had to switch trains at Hurdman and Parliament stations “while RTG carries out track and overhead maintenance.”

Para Transpo was also disrupted.

Quote:
Please note that some Para Transpo trips are currently delayed. We are working to get back on schedule, as quickly as possible. Thank you for your patience.— OC Transpo Live (@OCTranspoLive) February 9, 2020
Kitchissippi Coun. Jeff Leiper said he and others on council are not satisfied with the flow of information, and having to rely on reporters who do freedom of information requests “has got to stop.”

“I think councillors are going to want to confirm their understanding of what has transpired,” he said Sunday. “The memo that was put out by the city is still pretty dense. So I know at least I have asked some more pointed questions of staff to help me understand what has transpired.” The city needs to decide “how we get more transparency so we are not in this boat again.” “The councillors with whom I’ve spoken, as well as the public, have taken staff at their public word at various meetings, to assume that we have not paid a maintenance fee. We need to find some mechanism whereby we understand on a month-by month basis while the crisis is underway, what we are paying RTM for. “The trust issues, justified or not, are significant right now and I think that every potential red flag has got to be dealt with head-on, transparently and clearly.”

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twitter.com/TomSpears1

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ntenance-payment-to-rideau-transit-group
     
     
  #14189  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sseguin View Post
The City of Ottawa has just released a Memo regarding payments to RTG/RTM. https://otrainfans.ca/news/memo-rtg-rtm-payments

Contains explanations of how the payments, deductions and monthly structure is setup. If this topic interests you, I encourage you to read the memo, as it contains enough detail that doing a Cole's Notes version here may inadvertently omit important points.
So Kanellakos is pointing to the one time Manconi might have let it slip that RTM had been paid once. Can anybody verify this? Video? Recording? A reporter who can confirm?

I'm 99% positive that the City's position was that RTM hadn't been paid a single cent for maintenance since the launch of the system. At the very least, they deliberately led Council and the public to believe RTM hadn't been paid a single cent for maintenance.

The media has been reporting consistently about RTM not receiving ANY payments since the September launch. Not once has the City stepped-up to correct these reports.

That they had to go back and find that one quote (an accidental slip-up I'm sure) as proof they were "transparent" about this is pathetic.
     
     
  #14190  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 12:59 AM
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Wrong thread
     
     
  #14191  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:46 AM
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Can someone change the name of this thread to Confederation Line | Poorly Completed?
     
     
  #14192  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 3:28 PM
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Can someone change the name of this thread to Confederation Line | Poorly Completed?
Maybe "In Stabilization" would be more appropriate.
     
     
  #14193  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:11 PM
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Maybe "In Stabilization" would be more appropriate.
You are too kind.

This is a full on disaster right now. Every day it is something new-this weekend, aside from the never ending service disruptions someone tweeted photos of interior panels falling off. Last week it was fire and smoke on the pantograph. Doors, switches, power surges, stench in the tunnels. I'm losing track of it all.

I do hope things to settle down once winter ends but I am not certain this line was the right "product-market fit". If it was, this was shoddy work. We could very well be faced with a variety of issues and limitations on a number of fronts for years to come.

again, I really hope I am wrong. To go a week or god forbid a month without hearing of another problem with the LRT would be just wonderful right now.
     
     
  #14194  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
So Kanellakos is pointing to the one time Manconi might have let it slip that RTM had been paid once. Can anybody verify this? Video? Recording? A reporter who can confirm?

I'm 99% positive that the City's position was that RTM hadn't been paid a single cent for maintenance since the launch of the system. At the very least, they deliberately led Council and the public to believe RTM hadn't been paid a single cent for maintenance.

The media has been reporting consistently about RTM not receiving ANY payments since the September launch. Not once has the City stepped-up to correct these reports.

That they had to go back and find that one quote (an accidental slip-up I'm sure) as proof they were "transparent" about this is pathetic.
100% agree. Very well said.

As many have said before, we need to fire Manconi, fire Kanellakos, and fire Watson. Probably should fire Hubley too for good measure while we're at it to complete the house cleaning process.
     
     
  #14195  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:35 PM
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This maybe isn't as major as other issues listed here but I figured we might as well document this one if we're making a list. I feel like if you were to illustrate shoddy workmanship in a cartoon or something, you'd probably show it by drawing the panels falling off.

     
     
  #14196  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:35 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Originally Posted by daud View Post
You are too kind.

This is a full on disaster right now. Every day it is something new-this weekend, aside from the never ending service disruptions someone tweeted photos of interior panels falling off. Last week it was fire and smoke on the pantograph. Doors, switches, power surges, stench in the tunnels. I'm losing track of it all.

I do hope things to settle down once winter ends but I am not certain this line was the right "product-market fit". If it was, this was shoddy work. We could very well be faced with a variety of issues and limitations on a number of fronts for years to come.

again, I really hope I am wrong. To go a week or god forbid a month without hearing of another problem with the LRT would be just wonderful right now.
Maybe I'm too optimistic.

But lately it really doesn't seem like it's something new every day; it seems like it's the same 2 major issues (switches and vehicle power problems) that keep occurring with every winter weather event. Fix those 2 issues and the noise will die down.

One of the things you mentioned- doors- has actually been far less of a problem lately and there is apparently another software update coming. The fact that what was a major issue has been largely resolved is evidence of progress.
     
     
  #14197  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 4:39 PM
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This maybe isn't as major as other issues listed here but I figured we might as well document this one if we're making a list. I feel like if you were to illustrate shoddy workmanship in a cartoon or something, you'd probably show it by drawing the panels falling off.

Shoddy workmanship or (more likely) someone in maintenance made a mistake when re-closing the panel?

I get that there are a lot of eyes on LRT right now, but we don't need to melt down over every little thing.
     
     
  #14198  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 5:09 PM
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If these panels were falling down constantly, I'd be worried. As far as I know, this is the first occurrence, so whatever. 🞵🞵🞵🞵 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. We need to focus on the chronic issues (power, switches, communication and lack-there-of).
     
     
  #14199  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 5:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bradnixon View Post
Shoddy workmanship or (more likely) someone in maintenance made a mistake when re-closing the panel?

I get that there are a lot of eyes on LRT right now, but we don't need to melt down over every little thing.
Looking at the picture, the latch looks to be in the open position, so I would say that is the issue.
     
     
  #14200  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2020, 5:28 PM
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We were still operating with less than 13 trains this morning. 5 minute frequency suggesting 11 trains.
     
     
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