Atlantic Canada airport thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by homebody

I tend to disagree with the distance and bridge toll would be the issue of keeping Islanders away from YQM for domestic travel. I think that they would have used YQM if they had no flight options. From Charlottetown to YQM is 1:54 and the toll is 40 bucks, and some places on the Island would be less distance than that.

I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect), and in general, I don't think they would fly domestically out of YQM unless they had no choice.

The bridge toll is now nearly $50 (somewhere in the vicinity of $48.50), the drive to Moncton from Charlottetown is nearly four hours (return) and about 300 km (return), meaning about 10-12 litres of gas ($12-15), and then there would be the parking fees at the airport. These all add up.

I think Charlottetowners would view Moncton as a take-off point much the same way that I as a Monctonian views Halifax as a take-off point. It is far more convenient to use your home airport than to drive to a mildly inconvenient airport to receive basically the same service. Sun and vacation destinations are different though. If I was from Charlottetown and wanted to fly to Jamaica, then, well, Moncton makes a lot of sense since we have a direct sun destination flight. Similarly, the last time I used Halifax Stanfield Airport was to fly directly to London, England. If my destination were Toronto however, why would I want to drive to Halifax............

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect), and in general, I don't think they would fly domestically out of YQM unless they had no choice.

The bridge toll is now nearly $50 (somewhere in the vicinity of $48.50), the drive to Moncton from Charlottetown is nearly four hours (return) and about 300 km (return), meaning about 10-12 litres of gas ($12-15), and then there would be the parking fees at the airport. These all add up.

I think Charlottetowners would view Moncton as a take-off point much the same way that I as a Monctonian views Halifax as a take-off point. It is far more convenient to use your home airport than to drive to a mildly inconvenient airport to receive basically the same service. Sun and vacation destinations are different though. If I was from Charlottetown and wanted to fly to Jamaica, then, well, Moncton makes a lot of sense since we have a direct sun destination flight. Similarly, the last time I used Halifax Stanfield Airport was to fly directly to London, England. If my destination were Toronto however, why would I want to drive to Halifax............

I sure would love to know what vehicle you drive that gets 4L/100km! Must be a hybrid?

If i was an islander i wouldnt drive to Moncton for a domestic flight either. Sun destinations is a different story. Ive flown out of YFC, YSJ, and YHZ to sun destinations because it worked better with my schedule.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect), and in general, I don't think they would fly domestically out of YQM unless they had no choice.

The bridge toll is now nearly $50 (somewhere in the vicinity of $48.50), the drive to Moncton from Charlottetown is nearly four hours (return) and about 300 km (return), meaning about 10-12 litres of gas ($12-15), and then there would be the parking fees at the airport. These all add up.

I think Charlottetowners would view Moncton as a take-off point much the same way that I as a Monctonian views Halifax as a take-off point. It is far more convenient to use your home airport than to drive to a mildly inconvenient airport to receive basically the same service. Sun and vacation destinations are different though. If I was from Charlottetown and wanted to fly to Jamaica, then, well, Moncton makes a lot of sense since we have a direct sun destination flight. Similarly, the last time I used Halifax Stanfield Airport was to fly directly to London, England. If my destination were Toronto however, why would I want to drive to Halifax............

I am in Summerside, my neighbour is a ultra frequent flyer for his work and flies all the time. He can be asked to fly on 12 hrs notice. The only time he uses Moncton is if he cannot pick up a flight off PEI on short notice, or the connections are awful and he will spend less time in airports by going to Moncton.

the only exception to this was when Charlottetown was upgrading one of their runways. His flights were being delayed or held over so he flew out of YQM UNTIL the construction was done. He told me he does not mind Moncton, it is just not worth it most of the time.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect), and in general, I don't think they would fly domestically out of YQM unless they had no choice.

The bridge toll is now nearly $50 (somewhere in the vicinity of $48.50), the drive to Moncton from Charlottetown is nearly four hours (return) and about 300 km (return), meaning about 10-12 litres of gas ($12-15), and then there would be the parking fees at the airport. These all add up.

I think Charlottetowners would view Moncton as a take-off point much the same way that I as a Monctonian views Halifax as a take-off point. It is far more convenient to use your home airport than to drive to a mildly inconvenient airport to receive basically the same service. Sun and vacation destinations are different though. If I was from Charlottetown and wanted to fly to Jamaica, then, well, Moncton makes a lot of sense since we have a direct sun destination flight. Similarly, the last time I used Halifax Stanfield Airport was to fly directly to London, England. If my destination were Toronto however, why would I want to drive to Halifax............

When was the last time you lived on PEI? Islanders are homebodies (no direspect)......??


I travel several times a year and so does pretty much everyone in my extended family.

But to your point, I've never flown out of Moncton in my life. I have flown out of Charlottetown, Halifax and Bangor many times. Moncton is roughly 2 hrs away, Halifax is roughly 3 hrs away.......... The choice between the 2 is a no-brainer.(no direspect) ***......see what I did there?***

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by billy1

When was the last time you lived on PEI? Islanders are homebodies (no direspect)......??


I travel several times a year and so does pretty much everyone in my extended family.

But to your point, I've never flown out of Moncton in my life. I have flown out of Charlottetown, Halifax and Bangor many times. Moncton is roughly 2 hrs away, Halifax is roughly 3 hrs away.......... The choice between the 2 is a no-brainer.(no direspect) ***......see what I did there?***

When I said "no disrespect", I meant no disrespect. I was not trying to be snide or condescending.

As to your point, I was born in the 1950s, and grew up in the 1960s. Although I grew up in Charlottetown, most of my family was from rural western PEI (around O'Leary), and for them, the monthly trip was into Summerside. Most of my relatives only went to Charlottetown once or twice a year, and off Island only once in a blue moon. I was speaking from my own experiences from growing up there.

I have no idea how old you are, but if you are significantly younger than me, then your life experiences would be different. PEI in the 1960s was a far different place than PEI in the 1990s (especially with the ferries, and especially in the winter time).

I don't know why you were upset about my comments. I was actually defending why PEIslanders would choose to fly out of Charlottetown rather than Moncton. As a Charlottetowner, why would you be upset over that..........

[MonctonRad]

Here is the press release from the Greater Moncton Romeo LeBlanc International Airport Authority regarding passenger and cargo load at the airport last year.

2019 was a very successful year for YQM!
JANUARY 29, 2020

GREATER MONCTON, NB – As a result of combined efforts from its key airlines partners, Air Canada, WestJet, Porter, Sunwing and Air Transat, the Greater Moncton Roméo LeBlanc International Airport (YQM) achieved one of its best passenger traffic years ever in 2019, with 674,406 passengers. Past record years were over 681K in 2018 and over 677K in 2014.

This is great news considering the impact in the market related to the Boeing 737 Max grounding issue. Airlines continue to be very challenged in regards to fleet management and deployment as a result of 737 Max being withdrawn from their networks. Three of our key carriers have seen very significant impacts with 24 aircraft for Air Canada, 13 for WestJet and 6 for Sunwing being withdrawn from their respective networks and aircraft inventory until this matter is resolved.

2019 was another hugely successful year for domestic cargo activity at YQM with 1,775 aircraft movements from our partners Cargojet, FedEx, and EVAS. Similarly, YQM achieved a record volume of dedicated intermodal international air cargo freighter tonnage with 31 flights by Kalitta Air and Ethiopian Airlines in 2019 carrying 1,842,567 kilograms of live lobster directly to China or to European markets.

“Many thanks to everyone for your efforts in growing our passenger volume and cargo activity in 2019!”, said Bernard LeBlanc, President and CEO of the airport. “With the economic impact that our airport has on the economy of our community and region, we continuously work hard at positioning ourselves to increase our growth and activity at YQM. We remain grateful for the loyalty of our customers, airlines and partners in the business community and government.”

2019 has been a very significant year for YQM, with key accomplishments such as:

Completion of a 6150-foot runway 06-24 resurfacing project
Attainment of level 3 Carbon Accreditation Certification (carbon footprint reduction – only one of 5 Canadian airports in this league)
Increase in our southern destination line-up and addition of the Air Canada Rouge offering
It is also important to note that this winter, YQM along with its airline partners, will be offering 12 weekly direct non-stop flights to southern destinations. New for 2020, Air Transat has added an extra rotation to Punta Cana which means you have the option of leaving on Wednesdays or Fridays to Punta Cana over a 10-week period. Another new addition is Miami offered by Sunwing! This will allow easier connectivity to cruises and another destination in Florida.

I suppose the 737 Max issue might have had some effect on the numbers for YQM, but there was no Max service operating out of Moncton, so they are blaming "equipment shuffling". This could be the case, but this should have equally affected YFC and YYG, and both these airports showed improved numbers.

In any event, last year was the third best year on record at YQM for overall PAX, and this year will see the arrival of 6x weekly service to Hamilton via Swoop, which should have a positive impact moving forward. I look forward to the day that YQM surpasses 700,000 PAX.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here is the press release from the Greater Moncton Romeo LeBlanc International Airport Authority regarding passenger and cargo load at the airport last year.



I suppose the 737 Max issue might have had some effect on the numbers for YQM, but there was no Max service operating out of Moncton, so they are blaming "equipment shuffling". This could be the case, but this should have equally affected YFC and YYG, and both these airports showed improved numbers.

In any event, last year was the third best year on record at YQM for overall PAX, and this year will see the arrival of 6x weekly service to Hamilton via Swoop, which should have a positive impact moving forward. I look forward to the day that YQM surpasses 700,000 PAX.

The grounding of flights (such as the max-8 or the present flights being ground to and from china) has a trickle down effect. You are right that none of the max-8s were going to land directly in NB, but some of the passengers on those cancelled routes would have connected through Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa to our province. In the same way we will be affected but the current china grounding as students, and families that would be coming to NB are not able to get to the hubs, and therefore not able to connect to the Maritimes.

[billy1]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I was speaking from my own experiences from growing up there.

Then why do you generalize with a statement about all individuals from PEI, made in the present tense?

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I grew up on PEI. Islanders are homebodies (no disrespect)

This just perpetuates stereotypes.

[q12]

As an observation I see as many P.E.I. License plates as N.B. plates at IKEA when I get my meatball fix and also at the Halifax Airport Parkade.

I would suspect since 1997 when the Bridge, Cobequid Pass and the 104 twinned to New Glasgow (Caribou/wood islands ferry) Islanders travel to Halifax as frequently as those from Moncton and the rest of New Brunswick.


This winter/spring Maritimers are flying to Florida in record numbers with Halifax's daily Air Canada Rouge's flights to Orlando and Tampa:




https://www.flightconnections.com/

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here is the press release from the Greater Moncton Romeo LeBlanc International Airport Authority regarding passenger and cargo load at the airport last year.

In any event, last year was the third best year on record at YQM for overall PAX, and this year will see the arrival of 6x weekly service to Hamilton via Swoop, which should have a positive impact moving forward. I look forward to the day that YQM surpasses 700,000 PAX.

The Swoop service is 4x weekly during the summer and 3x during the winter isnt it?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

The Swoop service is 4x weekly during the summer and 3x during the winter isnt it?

Indeed you are correct.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by J81

The Swoop service is 4x weekly during the summer and 3x during the winter isnt it?

Nice to see this added option for travellers. Didn't one other airline maybe 10 years or so ago have the same service to Hamilton and it didn't do so well? personally I really don't see this lasting too long. There are only so many people wanting to go to Hamilton. I know it's an hour to Toronto, but its an hour out of the way. My other thought is that there are only so many passengers for so many planes. So are we robbing Peter to pay Paul? You may see flight frequency drop with other airlines.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by homebody

Nice to see this added option for travellers. Didn't one other airline maybe 10 years or so ago have the same service to Hamilton and it didn't do so well? personally I really don't see this lasting too long. There are only so many people wanting to go to Hamilton. I know it's an hour to Toronto, but its an hour out of the way. My other thought is that there are only so many passengers for so many planes. So are we robbing Peter to pay Paul? You may see flight frequency drop with other airlines.

If swoop planned the routes so that they easily connect to other popular destinations that swoop flies to, it would do well. This would include Edmonton Calgary and Vegas from Hamilton.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by homebody

Nice to see this added option for travellers. Didn't one other airline maybe 10 years or so ago have the same service to Hamilton and it didn't do so well? personally I really don't see this lasting too long. There are only so many people wanting to go to Hamilton. I know it's an hour to Toronto, but its an hour out of the way. My other thought is that there are only so many passengers for so many planes. So are we robbing Peter to pay Paul? You may see flight frequency drop with other airlines.

It's not just Hamilton though – it's also a convenient location for people trying to get to or from KW, Cambridge, Guelph, St. Catherines, etc.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by OliverD

It's not just Hamilton though – it's also a convenient location for people trying to get to or from KW, Cambridge, Guelph, St. Catherines, etc.

With all do respect. We could probably count them on our fingers and toes. Let's hope for Swoop that they were smart enough to allow for passengers to make a quick connection as Bishop2047 alluded to.

[J81]

Originally Posted by homebody

With all do respect. We could probably count them on our fingers and toes. Let's hope for Swoop that they were smart enough to allow for passengers to make a quick connection as Bishop2047 alluded to.

I think you underestimate those numbers. And Anyone visiting the Falls would save themselves time and hassle by going into Hamilton. WJ flew YQM-YHM for nearly 20 years successfully just like they flew YQM-CUN and YQM-MCO successfully for years. This routes went away because WJ changed their business model to Air Canada 2.0 and not because they werent well supported.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by J81

I think you underestimate those numbers. And Anyone visiting the Falls would save themselves time and hassle by going into Hamilton. WJ flew YQM-YHM for nearly 20 years successfully just like they flew YQM-CUN and YQM-MCO successfully for years. This routes went away because WJ changed their business model to Air Canada 2.0 and not because they werent well supported.

I agree they did that route for many years. I can recall that the YQM-YHM was turned into a seasonal route from a full time route before being cancelled completely. Yes Westjet now uses YYZ as its hub, but that was not to stop them from continuing all those routes if they found profitability in them on a seasonal basis and beyond.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by homebody

I agree they did that route for many years. I can recall that the YQM-YHM was turned into a seasonal route from a full time route before being cancelled completely. Yes Westjet now uses YYZ as its hub, but that was not to stop them from continuing all those routes if they found profitability in them on a seasonal basis and beyond.

I agree with J81. For some reason, WestJet has followed Air Canada down the rabbit hole of a Hub and Spoke model, and for this philosophical reason, they have largely abandoned secondary markets to the hell of Q400 service. Moncton was not the only victim. WestJet started their trans Atlantic adventures with a flight from St. John's to Dublin, and I believe briefly, a flight from St. John's to London as well. These flights were immensely popular, but due to Corporate making the decision that Halifax should be the eastern hub, they were cancelled, and now these flights originate out of Halifax.

I took the WestJet flight to Hamilton from Moncton a couple of times, and on both occasions, the 737 was either full or nearly full. On both occasions, my terminal destination was in western Canada. On one occasion, they used the same equipment for the second leg on to Edmonton, so I had the novel experience of a one-stop nearly direct flight from Moncton to Edmonton.

I's not a big fan of the ULCC concept, but I expect Swoop to do decently well out of Moncton, especially if the connections to western Canada are convenient. The biggest problem for Swoop is that their margins are so slim that the flights will have to be at near capacity for any profitability. Usually when airlines fail, it's because they are ULCC.

[stephan.richard]

Like I welcome Swoop to offer service into a Hamilton. But buyer beware when it comes to those flights the price looks good but when you start adding the extras like baggage, carry on and a host of others the cost is almost at par with Air Canada and Westjet mainline. But I wish that Westjet would fly their 737-600 instead of the dreaded Q400. But next week I am going to Toronto and will be flying Rouge but got the prefered seat. Also another note I am glad that Air Canada upped the game for flights to Toronto with Mainline A320, E190 and the odd mainline A321 to compliment the regular Rouge A319, A320, and A321.
All we can hope for is more variety in the future. But I hope with swoop here that we will be able to surpass 700000 pax.
On a bright point at least we are getting Swoop service before airports like Regina and Saskatoon.

[J81]

Originally Posted by homebody

I agree they did that route for many years. I can recall that the YQM-YHM was turned into a seasonal route from a full time route before being cancelled completely. Yes Westjet now uses YYZ as its hub, but that was not to stop them from continuing all those routes if they found profitability in them on a seasonal basis and beyond.

What stopped them was the lack of aircraft. When you completely shift your low cost structure into a hub and spoke model you need lots of aircraft in a short period to make it work. When you only have so many airplanes to go around you have to get them from somewhere so smaller point to point routes which are profitable get abandoned so the aircraft can be used to feed the growing hub machine.

Bottom line is YHM-YQM didnt fit their hub and spoke model. Thats why it went away. Swoop will do well in YQM