Highways in Canada

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by ZTrade

Going forward, we should dedicate each page to discussion on the 400 series Highways. We missed 400, 401 and 402 but let's start with 403.

Should the 403 from 407/QEW interchange be widened to 6/8 lanes all the way to Highway 6 to accommodate for future city and airport growth in Hamilton? I think 8 lanes to Downtown and 6 to Highway 6 would suffice. Do you guys think that would mess up the escarpment along the 403? Anyone know of plans for this stretch of highway, I know it's been discussed by city council for years now.

I do have a thread dedicated to Ontario Highways in the Ontario subforum.
Link: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=234064

For 403 between 407 and 6 (towards Hamilton Airport), I wanna see a few things fixed:
(1) Reconfiguring 403E to 6N and 6S to 403E to be right-hand exit and merge, and converting the intersection between 5 & 6 into an interchange - This will do wonders for traffic around that area, and lessen the slope of 6 down the escarpment, but the scope requires that this be a project on its own;
(2) Correcting sharp curves if it’s even possible;
(3) Widening from 4 to 8 lanes with HOV between 6 (toward Guelph) and the Linc, then just 6 lanes from there to... Highway 24 (Brantford)...?

Alternatively, if keeping the escarpment intact is a big deal, Hamilton and Metrolinx should just beef up services.

[Djeffery]

It would be a huge project to widen that piece of the 403. Almost every overpass would need to replaced and I can't even imagine what it would take to add lanes going up the mountain. The 6/403 interchange would have to get new flyovers if the 403 was ever going to get widened, and I think that would happen if 6 was ever upgraded to a highway. I mean, it basically is now, south of 5, but get a good stretch of it turned into a freeway and the bottom end would need to be upgraded. I'm less concerned about the exit from 6S onto the 403 though, as the highway ends, so somebody has to go to the left. A new ramp would allow a merge from the right, but I can see why it was built the way it was to begin with. Cheaper to only have to cross one set of lanes instead of both.

Would be nice to see this all done, but it would be nice to have it happen soon so it can be done before I may have to drive that way regularly lol.

[ZTrade]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I do have a thread dedicated to Ontario Highways in the Ontario subforum.
Link: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=234064

For 403 between 407 and 6 (towards Hamilton Airport), I wanna see a few things fixed:
(1) Reconfiguring 403E to 6N and 6S to 403E to be right-hand exit and merge, and converting the intersection between 5 & 6 into an interchange - This will do wonders for traffic around that area, and lessen the slope of 6 down the escarpment, but the scope requires that this be a project on its own;
(2) Correcting sharp curves if it’s even possible;
(3) Widening from 4 to 8 lanes with HOV between 6 (toward Guelph) and the Linc, then just 6 lanes from there to... Highway 24 (Brantford)...?

Alternatively, if keeping the escarpment intact is a big deal, Hamilton and Metrolinx should just beef up services.

Cool, I've never came across that thread. And lmao I was the last post on page 403.

But your suggestions would definitely do wonders, I just don't think they'll widen the highway all the way to Brantford at any point in the near future. Do you think 8 lanes from Downtown to the Linc would mess up the escarpment though? It's currently 5 lanes so maybe 3 lanes won't destroy the escarpment that bad. That's why I suggested 6 lanes with the hope of self-driving vehicles and further Metrolinx expansion alleviating congestion on that stretch of highway.

[Innsertnamehere]

That stretch of the 403 needs an HOV to Main St and an expansion to a 6 lane highway to Highway 6 past the Linc, otherwise it operates fine. Keep the additional climbing lane on the Mountian though, so essentially just add 2 lanes across the entire highway.

If you are willing to accept substandard shoulders, I think you could fit that type of configuration through every overpass other than the Longwood Road overpass, which is getting replaced regardless as a part of the Hamilton LRT, and the rail overpass just past Aberdeen, which could probably just be straight up demolished and replaced with a pedestrian bridge since it serves only a few yard tail tracks right now.

There is lots of precedent for substandard shoulders too for MTO - look at the 404. The CN Rail Corridor underpass north of Steeles not only has substandard shoulders but also substandard lane widths.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

That stretch of the 403 needs an HOV to Main St and an expansion to a 6 lane highway to Highway 6 past the Linc, otherwise it operates fine. Keep the additional climbing lane on the Mountian though, so essentially just add 2 lanes across the entire highway.

If you are willing to accept substandard shoulders, I think you could fit that type of configuration through every overpass other than the Longwood Road overpass, which is getting replaced regardless as a part of the Hamilton LRT, and the rail overpass just past Aberdeen, which could probably just be straight up demolished and replaced with a pedestrian bridge since it serves only a few yard tail tracks right now.

There is lots of precedent for substandard shoulders too for MTO - look at the 404. The CN Rail Corridor underpass north of Steeles not only has substandard shoulders but also substandard lane widths.

For the part abutted by cliff on one side and lake on the other, I think simply adding an eastbound lane will do. MTO simply needs to mandate that all trucks keep right heading west in that section, just like 401 W between Highway 25 and Guelph Line. Plus, there’s only space for one more lane anyway.

As for adding HOV, MTO will really need to figure out what to do with 403 E to 6N and 6S to 403 W. It’ll be a big project.

Lastly, we can also reduce the left shoulder to just 0.4 meters, I suppose.

[Djeffery]

I've been driving truck for 30 years between London and Toronto (although not very often to Toronto the last few years) and this is the first I've heard that trucks are restricted to the right lane between 25 and Guelph Line going westbound.

[Dengler Avenue]

There’s a sign on 401 W around Milton that tells trucks to keep right for the next 2 km though. Now that I think about it, that sign’s near the westbound truck inspection. Maybe it’s telling trucks to keep right because the yellow light can flash at any time?

[Djeffery]

Yes, trucks are supposed to stay in the right approaching the scales in case they open. Going up the hill, there is a sign saying slower trucks use 4 way flashers, but it doesn't require all trucks to stay to the right. My truck for example, doesn't lose speed on that hill, because of the relatively light loads we carry. Even going up the 403 in Hamilton, I barely drop more than a couple kmh.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Yes, trucks are supposed to stay in the right approaching the scales in case they open. Going up the hill, there is a sign saying slower trucks use 4 way flashers, but it doesn't require all trucks to stay to the right. My truck for example, doesn't lose speed on that hill, because of the relatively light loads we carry. Even going up the 403 in Hamilton, I barely drop more than a couple kmh.

The first time that I really noticed these signs was when I was driving on TCH through Northwestern New Brunswick before the inclines, so now when I saw the same signs on 401, I thought it would be for the same reason.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

That’s a really remote drive, even by Canadian standards. Frankly, it’s amazing that there’s even a decent paved road running all the way from the Saguenay region towards Chibougamau, let alone a twinned highway.

The highway between Chibougamau and the Lac St-Jean region is actually in excellent condition has a fair amount of traffic considering its remoteness. But the highway between Chibougamau and Lebel-sur-Quévillion (almost to Amos and Abitibi-Témiscamingue region) is pretty bumpy in places and has much less traffic.

In Summer, it is great to drive East across because you can drive between 110-120 km/h and not deal with getting stuck behind other vehicles because there are lots of straight stretches to pass if need be. Plus the lack of traffic helps. The SQ (police) won't stop you unless you are driving over 120 when the posted maximum is 90!

The portion between the City of Saguenay and the St. Lawrence River is usually much slower going because there is more traffic and it is quite hilly and windy. But it's not a huge distance.

[swimmer_spe]

It annoys me that the 407 was built the way it was. The 403 could have been extended along the current E-W route to Mississauga. Instead, that interchange is messy.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It annoys me that the 407 was built the way it was. The 403 could have been extended along the current E-W route to Mississauga. Instead, that interchange is messy.

The western piece of the 407 actually was originally designed as the 403 missing link between Mississauga and Burlington, but was the last piece to be built. I don't know how old you are or if you remember how fragmented the construction of the 403 was, but it had this missing link and also the missing link between Garden Ave and Wilson st. You had to get off at Wilson (go around the ramp with the flashing "Too Fast" sign that everyone was disappointed if they didn't actually make it flash lol), and take highway 2 to Garden Ave in Brantford and hook up to the highway. There was even a point until about 1990 or so that you couldn't get onto the 401 directly at Woodstock either, you had to get off at exit 6 and go up to Tower Line Rd and get on the 401 there.

The Woodstock ramps were built, then the Brantford link was opened in about 1997. Around that time, the 407 was starting to open in stages. The original plan of the 407 before the toll idea was brought in was it would go straight south from the 401 and end at the QEW (where the 403 currently ends), and the 403 would run e/w. That area seemed like an easy spot for them to stop the westward run of the 403 and run it south to the QEW and let another government pay for the westward expansion and this south part can just become part of the 407 whenever it got built. Once the 407 was established and people became used to paying tolls, the decision, probably as part of the sale of the 407 by the Harris government, was made to flip the 403 and 407 pieces and make the 407 run out to the west as a toll road.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Yes, trucks are supposed to stay in the right approaching the scales in case they open. Going up the hill, there is a sign saying slower trucks use 4 way flashers, but it doesn't require all trucks to stay to the right. My truck for example, doesn't lose speed on that hill, because of the relatively light loads we carry. Even going up the 403 in Hamilton, I barely drop more than a couple kmh.

There is also one on the 401 westbound in the Belleville (?) area I think.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is also one on the 401 westbound in the Belleville (?) area I think.

also on 400 southbound right after Highway 9

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The western piece of the 407 actually was originally designed as the 403 missing link between Mississauga and Burlington, but was the last piece to be built. I don't know how old you are or if you remember how fragmented the construction of the 403 was, but it had this missing link and also the missing link between Garden Ave and Wilson st. You had to get off at Wilson (go around the ramp with the flashing "Too Fast" sign that everyone was disappointed if they didn't actually make it flash lol), and take highway 2 to Garden Ave in Brantford and hook up to the highway. There was even a point until about 1990 or so that you couldn't get onto the 401 directly at Woodstock either, you had to get off at exit 6 and go up to Tower Line Rd and get on the 401 there.

The Woodstock ramps were built, then the Brantford link was opened in about 1997. Around that time, the 407 was starting to open in stages. The original plan of the 407 before the toll idea was brought in was it would go straight south from the 401 and end at the QEW (where the 403 currently ends), and the 403 would run e/w. That area seemed like an easy spot for them to stop the westward run of the 403 and run it south to the QEW and let another government pay for the westward expansion and this south part can just become part of the 407 whenever it got built. Once the 407 was established and people became used to paying tolls, the decision, probably as part of the sale of the 407 by the Harris government, was made to flip the 403 and 407 pieces and make the 407 run out to the west as a toll road.

I am old enough to remember some of that.

[Innsertnamehere]

Its easy to forget that the modern 400 series highway network wasn't complete until the late 1990's. The 416 wasn't built until then as well.

It's a shame that the 407 through Oakville and Burlington got built as the 407 instead of the 403, but hey.

The reason it happened is because the government at the time was extremely cash strapped, so to build the new GTA highways it needed they did the (at the time) planned 35 year toll period to finance it. It was decided that the 403 extension would be built like this as well as the 407, so it got renumbered 407. Then when Harris went to sell the highway, it hadn't yet been built. So as a condition of the sale, the private company had to complete the as of yet unfinished portions of the highway itself. Thus the private company actually built the part through Burlington and Oakville as well as the portion from Markham Road to Brock Road. This is why those two stretches are asphalt paving as well, while the rest of the highway is concrete.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Its easy to forget that the modern 400 series highway network wasn't complete until the late 1990's. The 416 wasn't built until then as well.

It's a shame that the 407 through Oakville and Burlington got built as the 407 instead of the 403, but hey.

The reason it happened is because the government at the time was extremely cash strapped, so to build the new GTA highways it needed they did the (at the time) planned 35 year toll period to finance it. It was decided that the 403 extension would be built like this as well as the 407, so it got renumbered 407. Then when Harris went to sell the highway, it hadn't yet been built. So as a condition of the sale, the private company had to complete the as of yet unfinished portions of the highway itself. Thus the private company actually built the part through Burlington and Oakville as well as the portion from Markham Road to Brock Road. This is why those two stretches are asphalt paving as well, while the rest of the highway is concrete.

So, 15 more years and it would have become toll free? Now, it never will.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, 15 more years and it would have become toll free? Now, it never will.

It’ll be, but you’ll just be ~115 years old by then.

Now that I use it whenever I go back to GTA though, I’m actually glad that the tolls are there. 401 is simply a gong show from Highway 407 to Harmony Road almost at all times.

[sonysnob]

New video of A-40 and the 417 between Montreal and Ottawa in Quebec in Ontario filmed last summer by me:

• Video Link

[Dengler Avenue]

Just wondering...

Can single-point A4 parclo interchange be a thing? Or will the loops be too tight in that case? Every now and then, when I exited 401W at Highway 25, I noticed that the off-ramp’s curved at such an angle that I thought MTO was gonna build a single-point there.