Highways in Canada

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Was Mr. Higgs' request accompanied by a cheque? Didn't think so.

I want to see the A-85 completed ASAP as much as anybody, but to put things in perspective the region of Quebec where it is located has about 22,000 people. It doesn't lead to another region of Quebec, it leads to the Maritimes - which are the main benefactors of its completion. Not Quebec taxpayers.

Of the whole 1-billion-dollar project, about half the money is coming from the feds, and the other half is coming from Quebec.

So Quebec is spending half a billion dollars of our tax money on a road that will primarily benefit only 22,000 of its taxpayers and 2.5 million Atlantic Canadians who do not pay taxes to Quebec.

As I said already, I am totally for this project. It needs to be done. But it also makes sense that is being done according to Quebec's terms and priorities.

More like 60% on Quebec and 40% on the feds. 389.7/943 works out to be slightly more than 0.4.

You know what? We won't complain. At least you guys aren't imposing tolls on A85 like N.B. and N.S. did on their stretches of TCH.

Edit: Now that you've mentioned it, I guess Ford & Rickford can ask Pallister for money to twin TCH near Kenora.

[Acajack]

The broader issue of course is that highway transportation (and especially interprovincial highway transportation) should be and should always have been a federal responsibility.

We're not there though and not sure if it is going to change at any point, so we have to make do.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Got links? I might repost it in the Quebec Highway forum (though I'm getting bored being the sole contributor there...)
I want 185 done before 2025 too. I've been waiting to travel from GTA to Halifax on a contiguous freeway.

The story is in the Moncton Times & Transcript, which is behind an ironclad paywall with failsafe locks.

According to the NB government, the non twinned segment is a serious impediment to interprovincial trade, mostly because it prevents unimpeded passage by "B trains" (tractor trailers with more than one trailer). This apparently costs the Atlantic Canadian economy about $1 billion dollars annually.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The story is in the Moncton Times & Transcript, which is behind an ironclad paywall with failsafe locks.

According to the NB government, the non twinned segment is a serious impediment to interprovincial trade, mostly because it prevents unimpeded passage by "B trains" (tractor trailers with more than one trailer). This apparently costs the Atlantic Canadian economy about $1 billion dollars annually.

I want you to consider, for a moment, who owns the newspaper you're citing and who operates most of the transports travelling through the corridor.

I'd love to see A85 fully twinned tomorrow but it's pretty clear what's going on here. NB, and its players, don't have much leverage over the infrastructure schedule of Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I want you to consider, for a moment, who owns the newspaper you're citing and who operates most of the transports travelling through the corridor.

.

Pretty sure he knows that!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Pretty sure he knows that!

Indeed. Just relaying the information provided to me this morning as I was reading the paper while eating breakfast.

FWIW, the billion dollar estimate quoted in the paper seems kinda overinflated to me, but I have no idea how this was actually calculated. maybe they're factoring in "lost business opportunities" too.........

[TSteph9]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are actually a number of 2-laners in Quebec that are over 10,000, but the MTQ has a pretty hard-and-fast rule that once they go over 10,000, they are designated for twinning. The issue is when they actually get to it. (They do eventually - but it can take a lot of time.)

But I realize that in Ontario perhaps there are quite a few 2-laners for which there is absolutely zero commitment to twinning at any point in the foreseeable future.

Yeah, the last time i drove through Quebec it seemed like I spent more time on 2 lane highways than anything else. It wasn't too badly congested though and everyone was doing like 20-30 over so it was a nice drive lol.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by TSteph9

Yeah, the last time i drove through Quebec it seemed like I spent more time on 2 lane highways than anything else. It wasn't too badly congested though and everyone was doing like 20-30 over so it was a nice drive lol.

I have to wonder where in Quebec you were. You can drive between all the major cities of Quebec (Montreal, Quebec City, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke, Saguenay, all except Gatineau - which is partly divided, partly super-2) and many of the main regions on four-lane divided highways.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have to wonder where in Quebec you were. You can drive between all the major cities of Quebec (Montreal, Quebec City, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke, Saguenay, all except Gatineau - which is partly divided, partly super-2) and many of the main regions on four-lane divided highways.

Technically you can drive to Gatineau on a 4 lane highway as well. It is just you need to drive on the 417 in Ontario and then cross the river through downtown Ottawa on city streets.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have to wonder where in Quebec you were. You can drive between all the major cities of Quebec (Montreal, Quebec City, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke, Saguenay, all except Gatineau - which is partly divided, partly super-2) and many of the main regions on four-lane divided highways.

Estrie, Northern or Central Quebec (Central as in Thetford Mines), or Eastern Townships. If you make the trip up 105 and 117 towards NEO often enough, you’ll end up spending lots of time on 2-lane roads too.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Technically you can drive to Gatineau on a 4 lane highway as well. It is just you need to drive on the 417 in Ontario and then cross the river through downtown Ottawa on city streets.

especially now that 417’s more attractive with the 110 km/h speed limit

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Technically you can drive to Gatineau on a 4 lane highway as well. It is just you need to drive on the 417 in Ontario and then cross the river through downtown Ottawa on city streets.

True. I was going to add that but I forgot.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I want to see the A-85 completed ASAP as much as anybody, but to put things in perspective the region of Quebec where it is located has about 22,000 people. It doesn't lead to another region of Quebec, it leads to the Maritimes - which are the main benefactors of its completion. Not Quebec taxpayers.

This doesn't follow from the fact that this stretch of highway runs through a sparsely populated stretch of Quebec. People living in Montreal or Quebec City benefit from this highway too. There's lots of traffic going back and forth between Quebec and the Maritimes that passes over that region. It's not all people going from the Maritimes to Ontario or farther west, and even that traffic probably benefits all of Quebec significantly.

It's just like how there are stretches of highway through the Rockies that have 0 local population but are important.

I agree that the federal government should take more of a leadership role in projects of this nature. This is an interprovincial commerce project, not infrastructure for 22,000 people.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The broader issue of course is that highway transportation (and especially interprovincial highway transportation) should be and should always have been a federal responsibility.

Originally Posted by someone123

I agree that the federal government should take more of a leadership role in projects of this nature. This is an interprovincial commerce project, not infrastructure for 22,000 people.

THIS can't be overstated.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Estrie, Northern or Central Quebec (Central as in Thetford Mines), or Eastern Townships. If you make the trip up 105 and 117 towards NEO often enough, you’ll end up spending lots of time on 2-lane roads too.

especially now that 417’s more attractive with the 110 km/h speed limit

Just FYI, Estrie and Eastern Townships refer to (almost) the same region. Estrie is the name of the administrative region whereas Eastern Townships (Cantons-de-l'Est) is the designation used by the tourism industry. I believe the latter include part of Montérégie (Granby area).

[Dengler Avenue]

Oops I got the regions mixed up. I thought the area that includes Huntingdon, QC was Estrie.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Oops I got the regions mixed up. I thought the area that includes Huntingdon, QC was Estrie.

Historically, just judging by the name and even though it's quite close to Montreal, Huntingdon was probably part of the "Eastern Townships".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

This doesn't follow from the fact that this stretch of highway runs through a sparsely populated stretch of Quebec. People living in Montreal or Quebec City benefit from this highway too. There's lots of traffic going back and forth between Quebec and the Maritimes that passes over that region. It's not all people going from the Maritimes to Ontario or farther west, and even that traffic probably benefits all of Quebec significantly.

It's just like how there are stretches of highway through the Rockies that have 0 local population but are important.

I agree that the federal government should take more of a leadership role in projects of this nature. This is an interprovincial commerce project, not infrastructure for 22,000 people.

Yes you're right that there is some advantage for Montreal/Quebec City/the rest of Quebec to having a good highway link to the Maritimes.

Though I don't know how high it would rank on the priority list relative to other highway projects in the province.

Just looking at other missing gaps in the highway systems of other provinces and states. (Especially provinces I guess - Interstate gaps on major corridors are rare in the U.S. these days). For example, BC doesn't have a fully completed four-lane divided highway yet with its next-door Canadian neighbour Alberta which has 4.5 million people. It's even close to BC in size whereas all of Atlantic Canada isn't even close to having the population of Greater Montreal. BC does have a fully divided highway to Washington state but that distance is so short that it was a no-brainer to get that done.

But one could argue that in terms of (potential?) economic impact finishing the missing gap in A-35 that would allow a more direct route between Montreal and Boston could be as important as finishing the A-85 to NB. (You can get to Boston from Montreal all on freeways via Sherbrooke and the A-55 but it's a bit more of a circuitous route.)

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by TSteph9

Yeah, the last time i drove through Quebec it seemed like I spent more time on 2 lane highways than anything else. It wasn't too badly congested though and everyone was doing like 20-30 over so it was a nice drive lol.

That's how it is if I go to Atlantic Canada via Chibougamau and then Saguenay and then down to the St. Lawrence River and take the ferry across. The only 4 laned portion is Autoroute 70 through the City of Saguenay.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Loco101

That's how it is if I go to Atlantic Canada via Chibougamau and then Saguenay and then down to the St. Lawrence River and take the ferry across. The only 4 laned portion is Autoroute 70 through the City of Saguenay.

That’s a really remote drive, even by Canadian standards. Frankly, it’s amazing that there’s even a decent paved road running all the way from the Saguenay region towards Chibougamau, let alone a twinned highway.

[ZTrade]

Going forward, we should dedicate each page to discussion on the 400 series Highways. We missed 400, 401 and 402 but let's start with 403.

Should the 403 from 407/QEW interchange be widened to 6/8 lanes all the way to Highway 6 to accommodate for future city and airport growth in Hamilton? I think 8 lanes to Downtown and 6 to Highway 6 would suffice. Do you guys think that would mess up the escarpment along the 403? Anyone know of plans for this stretch of highway, I know it's been discussed by city council for years now.