Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[misher]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The problem in Vancouver is unique and completely government made. By the province and city turning a blind eye to rampant money laundering and hence real estate speculation resulting in it's truly outrageous real estate prices, it has artificially created a rental crisis.

In the rest of the country, a family making $70k {about both the Vancouver and national average income} would easily afford a condo or townhouse and in most areas a full SFH but not in Vancouver. The result has been middle income people being stuck renting as owning is not optional. This means hundreds of thousands of people who would be buyers in the rest of the country are instead stuck renting. All the rental supply in the world won't make any difference in Vancouver until home prices fall significantly and those middle income earners can finally leave the rental market.

I was with you until you began blaming money laundering. Government is responsible but its because they turned a blind eye to zoning, housing requirements, and their increasing levels of regulation/bureaucracy. The NDP's own report found that money laundering is a small factor in our real estate market thats present in every market across Canada. To say people launder money in BC and nowhere else across Canada is just arrogant.

[misher]

https://www.westerninvestor.com/news/bri...k-s-vancouver-expansion-plans-1.24012405

I know Vancouver's residential market is usually the one discussed but its commercial market is also red hot (except for land sales which have fallen in 2019). Even with Wework possibly not going forward with its plans to occupy more space its pre-leased its anticipated it could sub-lease it for more. Unfortunately a low commercial vacancy rate is now impacting Vancouver's economy as businesses shy away from entering/expanding into the Vancouver market due to high lease rates or simply space not being available. Low vacancy rates for residential and commercial are strangling Vancouver's potential for growth.

Colliers statistics show that downtown Vancouver’s office vacancy rate at the end of September was 2.1 per cent. High-quality triple-A space vacancy in the downtown is almost nothing – 0.3 per cent, Dubuque said.

In the suburbs, the vacancy rate is around 3.1 per cent.

To demonstrate how low that is, conventional real estate wisdom is that a balanced market would have a vacancy rate in the eight-to-10 per cent range.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by misher

I know Vancouver's residential market is usually the one discussed but its commercial market is also red hot (except for land sales which have fallen in 2019). Even with Wework possibly not going forward with its plans to occupy more space its pre-leased its anticipated it could sub-lease it for more. Unfortunately a low commercial vacancy rate is now impacting Vancouver's economy as businesses shy away from entering/expanding into the Vancouver market due to high lease rates or simply space not being available. Low vacancy rates for residential and commercial are strangling Vancouver's potential for growth.

It's too busy, nobody goes there anymore.

[SpongeG]

Five examples of Metro Vancouver homeowners losing big in a falling market

The Province, November 18, 2019
David Carrigg

The owner of a Dunbar home on West 22nd Avenue lost almost $800,000 in 31 months on a home sold this month for $2.4 million
Some Metro Vancouver homeowners who bought just before or just after the start of the market correction in the summer of 2016 and have now sold their homes are being hit with staggering losses.

Naturally, this has become Twitter fodder, so here’s a look at some of the big recent losses as highlighted by Twitter handles Mortimer and Vancouver Real Estate Flip Flops.

...

https://theprovince.com/business/real-es...wcm/1a51177a-5184-43a8-8b97-9922eb27151c

• Video Link

[misher]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Five examples of Metro Vancouver homeowners losing big in a falling market

The Province, November 18, 2019
David Carrigg

The owner of a Dunbar home on West 22nd Avenue lost almost $800,000 in 31 months on a home sold this month for $2.4 million
Some Metro Vancouver homeowners who bought just before or just after the start of the market correction in the summer of 2016 and have now sold their homes are being hit with staggering losses.

Naturally, this has become Twitter fodder, so here’s a look at some of the big recent losses as highlighted by Twitter handles Mortimer and Vancouver Real Estate Flip Flops.

...

https://theprovince.com/business/real-es...wcm/1a51177a-5184-43a8-8b97-9922eb27151c

• Video Link

You can cherry pick flops and successes. Markets been a wild ride. But its clear that things were down and now there going back up.

A mixed-use retail and residential building in Vancouver’s Kitsilano area has sold for $8.8 million, above the assessed value of $7.9 million but $1.1 million below its list price, reports Fraser Elliott Group.

https://www.westerninvestor.com/done-dea...te-sells-above-assessed-value-1.24011406

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The problem in Vancouver is unique and completely government made. By the province and city turning a blind eye to rampant money laundering and hence real estate speculation resulting in it's truly outrageous real estate prices, it has artificially created a rental crisis....

A perfect example of this came out this week:

Exclusive: Investment firms seek B.C. court help to enforce Chinese judgment against owners of seven Lower Mainland properties

Three investment companies want a B.C. Supreme Court judge to enforce a Chinese court’s decision against the owners of seven residential properties in the Lower Mainland.

Shanghai Zhong Jia Xing Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP, Yangzhou Jia Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP and Nantong Jian Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP claim in Nov. 13 filings that Liaoning Muchang International Environmental Protection Industry Co. Ltd., a company owned by West Vancouver’s Bing Bai and his wife Yan Ma, was convicted of breaking China’s environmental laws in October 2018.

“In September 2014, the defendant Bai started ordering this employees to bury approximately 1,500 tons of hazardous waste directly under the soil,” said the court filing by Angel Jingling Wang of Jing Ling Wang Law Corp., a Burnaby lawyer representing the three plaintiff firms.

The company had guaranteed the three plaintiffs that it would not violate laws and regulations, that it would make full disclosure of company information to the plaintiffs and that it would apply to be listed on a public exchange by the end of June 2016.

“The crime impacted [Bai and Ma’s] company and they did not meet profit goals and became disqualified for a public listing due to the crime.”

The statement of claim alleges the investors transferred a total 3,360 million renminbi — more than $600 million Canadian — for 14.93% of shares in Bai and Ma’s hazardous waste and recycling company at Christmastime 2014. The plaintiffs claim permanent resident Bai and Canadian citizen Ma and their adult child Mu Qing Bai, also a Canadian citizen, used some or all of that money to buy real estate in West Vancouver, Vancouver and Richmond....

...Attached to the statement of claim are land titles records that show five properties registered in the name of Yan Ma, one under her pseudonym Sapphire Mar and another 99% owned by Mu Qing Bai, and 1% by Ma. Bai is not named in any of the seven documents. Five of the seven properties were purchased between 2016 and 2019.

Ma’s occupation varies by registration: She is identified as a businesswoman, manager, self-employed or student. The real estate portfolio is currently worth almost $24.7 million, including Bai and Ma’s $6.34 million Gleneagles residence in West Vancouver and Mu Qing Bai’s $2.983 million Caulfeild residence in West Vancouver.

Ma’s name is also on the deed for a $3.09 million house in West Vancouver’s Altamont and a $4.339 million house on Queens Avenue, a $4.45 million house in Shaughnessy in Vancouver, a $2.85 million house in Blundell Road in Richmond and condo on Elmbridge Way in Richmond..

https://thebreaker.news/news/liaoning-muchang-lawsuit/

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

A perfect example of this came out this week:

Exclusive: Investment firms seek B.C. court help to enforce Chinese judgment against owners of seven Lower Mainland properties

Three investment companies want a B.C. Supreme Court judge to enforce a Chinese court’s decision against the owners of seven residential properties in the Lower Mainland.

Shanghai Zhong Jia Xing Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP, Yangzhou Jia Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP and Nantong Jian Hua Chuang Ye Investment LLP claim in Nov. 13 filings that Liaoning Muchang International Environmental Protection Industry Co. Ltd., a company owned by West Vancouver’s Bing Bai and his wife Yan Ma, was convicted of breaking China’s environmental laws in October 2018.

“In September 2014, the defendant Bai started ordering this employees to bury approximately 1,500 tons of hazardous waste directly under the soil,” said the court filing by Angel Jingling Wang of Jing Ling Wang Law Corp., a Burnaby lawyer representing the three plaintiff firms.

The company had guaranteed the three plaintiffs that it would not violate laws and regulations, that it would make full disclosure of company information to the plaintiffs and that it would apply to be listed on a public exchange by the end of June 2016.

“The crime impacted [Bai and Ma’s] company and they did not meet profit goals and became disqualified for a public listing due to the crime.”

The statement of claim alleges the investors transferred a total 3,360 million renminbi — more than $600 million Canadian — for 14.93% of shares in Bai and Ma’s hazardous waste and recycling company at Christmastime 2014. The plaintiffs claim permanent resident Bai and Canadian citizen Ma and their adult child Mu Qing Bai, also a Canadian citizen, used some or all of that money to buy real estate in West Vancouver, Vancouver and Richmond....

...Attached to the statement of claim are land titles records that show five properties registered in the name of Yan Ma, one under her pseudonym Sapphire Mar and another 99% owned by Mu Qing Bai, and 1% by Ma. Bai is not named in any of the seven documents. Five of the seven properties were purchased between 2016 and 2019.

Ma’s occupation varies by registration: She is identified as a businesswoman, manager, self-employed or student. The real estate portfolio is currently worth almost $24.7 million, including Bai and Ma’s $6.34 million Gleneagles residence in West Vancouver and Mu Qing Bai’s $2.983 million Caulfeild residence in West Vancouver.

Ma’s name is also on the deed for a $3.09 million house in West Vancouver’s Altamont and a $4.339 million house on Queens Avenue, a $4.45 million house in Shaughnessy in Vancouver, a $2.85 million house in Blundell Road in Richmond and condo on Elmbridge Way in Richmond..

https://thebreaker.news/news/liaoning-muchang-lawsuit/

Chinese people buying property doesn't = money laundering. Although you could argue its investing which we all do.

[p_xavier]

https://montrealgazette.com/business/loc...-more-than-property-montreal-broker-says

[misher]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

https://montrealgazette.com/business/loc...-more-than-property-montreal-broker-says

Tung credits the addition of direct flights between Montreal and Beijing as one of the factors that has helped put Montreal on the map for Chinese investors. Although many Montrealers have concerns that a big influx of foreign capital may create affordability problems similar to those that have dogged Vancouver and Toronto, she said what investors from Asia do is no different than what Canadian real estate investors do.

I've said this before, we can't criticize others for doing exactly what we do. Note that the American average of 5% is more than double the Vancouver average. We talk about the Chinese having too much money but we're investing 60% as much as them in American real estate while having 3% of their population. This works out to Canadians being about 18x richer. Also while I assume foreign purchases from Mexico are minimal, I suspect greater ratios of Indian and British foreign purchases to Chinese happen in Canada. Which would make Indian and British foreign buyers the equal of Chinese.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by p_xavier

https://montrealgazette.com/business/loc...-more-than-property-montreal-broker-says

"Tung credits the addition of direct flights between Montreal and Beijing as one of the factors that has helped put Montreal on the map for Chinese investors. Although many Montrealers have concerns that a big influx of foreign capital may create affordability problems similar to those that have dogged Vancouver and Toronto, she said what investors from Asia do is no different than what Canadian real estate investors do."

Untrue. While ordinary Canadians might buy a vacation property in Palm Springs or Florida for example, they generally do not snap up multiple properties at high prices. The list of property just that one family I referenced upthread is astounding but sadly not unusual:

$6.34 million Gleneagles residence
$2.983 million Caulfeild residence
$3.09 million house in Altamont
$4.339 million house on Queens Avenue
$4.45 million house in Shaughnessy
$2.85 million house in Richmond
Condo on Elmbridge Way in Richmond
https://twitter.com/mortimer_1/status/1196665784065413120

It's clear such buying is an attempt to hide money from their government.


Said it before, I'll say it again: Do not encourage or celebrate this Montreal, you will regret it.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by misher

Chinese people buying property doesn't = money laundering. Although you could argue its investing which we all do.

No, but there is too much of it and it needs to be drastically scaled back. The Chinese are slowly buying up the world, bit by bit, and the world needs to fight back or risk falling to the commie country at some point down the road.

Having China domonate as the sole global superpower is a freightening thought; one that no other country besides North Korea and maybe Russia would celebrate.

And, if you are reading this Xi Jinping (and you likely are), it's true. I don't like you or what your government stands for. So go pound sand ya bloody hoser.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Pinus

No, but there is too much of it and it needs to be drastically scaled back. The Chinese are slowly buying up the world, bit by bit, and the world needs to fight back or risk falling to the commie country at some point down the road.

Having China domonate as the sole global superpower is a freightening thought; one that no other country besides North Korea and maybe Russia would celebrate.

And, if you are reading this Xi Jinping (and you likely are), it's true. I don't like you or what your government stands for. So go pound sand ya bloody hoser.

Spoken like a true ignorant Canadian.

A lot of people and countries would, and do welcome the growth of China as it means that the west isn't so dominant over the rest of the world anymore.

Lot's of poorer countries have benefited from the growth of China.
China alone has pretty much raised the quality of life of hundreds of millions of people outside of China thanks to its investment in infrastructure and trade around the world.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Nite

Spoken like a true ignorant Canadian.

A lot of people and countries would, and do welcome the growth of China as it means that the west isn't so dominant over the rest of the world anymore.

Lot's of poorer countries have benefited from the growth of China.
China alone has pretty much raised the quality of life of hundreds of millions of people outside of China thanks to its investment in infrastructure and trade around the world.

Looks like I'm not the one who is ignorant.

Doing business with the Chinese almost always comes at a huge cost to the investee and local communities that deal with them. I have African friends who tell horror stories en massive about human rights abuses by Chinese companies, to the point that many have gone "missing" if they dared to speak out. Much of Africa is now essentially owned and controlled by the Chinese, sadly.

Additionally, the increase in elephant, rhino, gorilla and other animal poaching has skyrocketed since the Chinese began investing en masse in Africa, all for their fucking "traditional medicines". They have basically destroyed their own country's environment and people, and are now causing havoc in others, all for money.

So don't you sit back with a smug tone and tell me how beneficial Chinese investment is. Maybe go and educate yourself by talking to some of those "poorer" people who have first hand experience in dealing with the Chinese. Maybe you will learn something.

Maybe.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Looks like I'm not the one who is ignorant.

Doing business with the Chinese almost always comes at a huge cost to the investee and local communities that deal with them. I have African friends who tell horror stories en massive about human rights abuses by Chinese companies, to the point that many have gone "missing" if they dared to speak out. Much of Africa is now essentially owned and controlled by the Chinese, sadly.

Additionally, the increase in elephant, rhino, gorilla and other animal poaching has skyrocketed since the Chinese began investing en masse in Africa, all for their fucking "traditional medicines". They have basically destroyed their own country's environment and people, and are now causing havoc in others, all for money.

So don't you sit back with a smug tone and tell me how beneficial Chinese investment is. Maybe go and educate yourself by talking to some of those "poorer" people who have first-hand experience in dealing with the Chinese. Maybe you will learn something.

Maybe.

I doubt you know more about Africa than me. The vast majority of cases, Chinese investment has been a great boost to Africa's infrastructure and Manufacturing.
Overall Chinese companies are no worse than other companies in Africa and no one goes missing for speaking out about the few bad ones.
Name me one incident where someone went missing for opposing Chinese business in Africa?
There would be riots, protest and reprisals in every part of Africa if a Chinese company was actively killing Africans.

China has a much more positive profile in Africa compared to most western countries and businesses, because the relationship has always been based on business and trade as opposed to the west, which has a history of colonization, racism, and genocide. The west is just seen as a source of government revenue in Africa while China and the Chinese are seen as business partners, markets, people you learn how to develop a poor economy and build infrastructure on a large scale.

There are countless power project, hospitals, water plants, transportation projects, manufacturing, and other projects which are crucial for Africa development that is largely being built with Chinese funding and companies. What China wants in Africa are markets for its goods and services, to not be so reliant on the west, and it knows if Africa stays poor then it will not be much of a market.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Nite

I doubt you know more about Africa than me. The vast majority of cases, Chinese investment has been a great boost to Africa's infrastructure and Manufacturing.
Overall Chinese companies are no worse than other companies in Africa and no one goes missing for speaking out about the few bad ones.
Name me one incident where someone went missing for opposing Chinese business in Africa?
There would be riots, protest and reprisals in every part of Africa if a Chinese company was actively killing Africans.

China has a much more positive profile in Africa compared to most western countries and businesses, because the relationship has always been based on business and trade as opposed to the west, which has a history of colonization, racism, and genocide. The west is just seen as a source of government revenue in Africa while China and the Chinese are seen as business partners, markets, people you learn how to develop a poor economy and build infrastructure on a large scale.

There are countless power project, hospitals, water plants, transportation projects, manufacturing, and other projects which are crucial for Africa development that is largely being built with Chinese funding and companies. What China wants in Africa are markets for its goods and services, to not be so reliant on the west, and it knows if Africa stays poor then it will not be much of a market.

African nations, among many others, are quickly souring on Chinese investment:

Kenya is the latest country where China is frantically defusing a public relations storm over President Xi Jinping's signature Belt and Road megaproject.

In a statement Friday, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs dismissed as "not true" numerous reports that a key port in Mombasa was at risk of being seized by Beijing over unpaid debts.
Speaking to journalists last week, Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta also pushed back, dismissing as "pure propaganda" reports based on a leaked letter from the country's Auditor General warning that assets belonging to the Kenya Port Authority -- including Mombasa's massive Kilindini Harbor, the largest port in East Africa -- were listed as collateral for a multi-billion-dollar loan to fund a railway project....

....Kenya's own issues date to 2014, when Nairobi signed a multi-billion-dollar deal with the state-owned China Road and Bridge Corporation to fund a new rail link between the Kenyan capital and Mombasa, on the Indian Ocean.
The train line, known in Kenya as the standard gauge railway (SGR) project, was completed in 2017, slashing the transport time between the country's two largest cities. It is now in its second phase, with the Kenyan government reportedly borrowing a further $1.6 billion from China to fund a line from Nairobi to Naivasha.
But while the SGR has been a boon to residents of Nairobi and Mombasa, it has yet to generate half the revenues anticipated in feasibility studies, according to The East African newspaper -- raising fears over the country's ability to repay the loan. It has also been criticized for being vastly overpriced, reportedly costing about three times the international standard...

.......Many countries that were initially willing to take Beijing's money have expressed concern over what could happen should they default on debt payments, particularly after the Sri Lanka deal....
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/31/asia/china-kenya-belt-road-bri-intl/index.html

An authoritarian country will always be corrupt and heavy-handed in their dealings with other nations. They don't know any other way.

[misher]

Originally Posted by whatnext

African nations, among many others, are quickly souring on Chinese investment:

Kenya is the latest country where China is frantically defusing a public relations storm over President Xi Jinping's signature Belt and Road megaproject.

In a statement Friday, China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs dismissed as "not true" numerous reports that a key port in Mombasa was at risk of being seized by Beijing over unpaid debts.
Speaking to journalists last week, Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta also pushed back, dismissing as "pure propaganda" reports based on a leaked letter from the country's Auditor General warning that assets belonging to the Kenya Port Authority -- including Mombasa's massive Kilindini Harbor, the largest port in East Africa -- were listed as collateral for a multi-billion-dollar loan to fund a railway project....

....Kenya's own issues date to 2014, when Nairobi signed a multi-billion-dollar deal with the state-owned China Road and Bridge Corporation to fund a new rail link between the Kenyan capital and Mombasa, on the Indian Ocean.
The train line, known in Kenya as the standard gauge railway (SGR) project, was completed in 2017, slashing the transport time between the country's two largest cities. It is now in its second phase, with the Kenyan government reportedly borrowing a further $1.6 billion from China to fund a line from Nairobi to Naivasha.
But while the SGR has been a boon to residents of Nairobi and Mombasa, it has yet to generate half the revenues anticipated in feasibility studies, according to The East African newspaper -- raising fears over the country's ability to repay the loan. It has also been criticized for being vastly overpriced, reportedly costing about three times the international standard...

.......Many countries that were initially willing to take Beijing's money have expressed concern over what could happen should they default on debt payments, particularly after the Sri Lanka deal....
https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/31/asia/china-kenya-belt-road-bri-intl/index.html

An authoritarian country will always be corrupt and heavy-handed in their dealings with other nations. They don't know any other way.

Yes holding people to a contract is so awful. Definitely a sign that this nation is corrupt. People
Should not be responsible for themselves that’s just awful.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Nite

I doubt you know more about Africa than me. The vast majority of cases, Chinese investment has been a great boost to Africa's infrastructure and Manufacturing.
Overall Chinese companies are no worse than other companies in Africa and no one goes missing for speaking out about the few bad ones.
Name me one incident where someone went missing for opposing Chinese business in Africa?
There would be riots, protest and reprisals in every part of Africa if a Chinese company was actively killing Africans.

China has a much more positive profile in Africa compared to most western countries and businesses, because the relationship has always been based on business and trade as opposed to the west, which has a history of colonization, racism, and genocide. The west is just seen as a source of government revenue in Africa while China and the Chinese are seen as business partners, markets, people you learn how to develop a poor economy and build infrastructure on a large scale.

There are countless power project, hospitals, water plants, transportation projects, manufacturing, and other projects which are crucial for Africa development that is largely being built with Chinese funding and companies. What China wants in Africa are markets for its goods and services, to not be so reliant on the west, and it knows if Africa stays poor then it will not be much of a market.

Firstly, your "I know more than you" bluff doesn't intimidate me.

Secondly, you are so full of shit I can smell you half way around the country. Implying the the Chinese treat Africans fairly and have respect for them? That is laughable at best.

https://www.heritage.org/global-politics...s-beijings-rhetoric-about-friendship-the

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/world/africa/kenya-china-racism.amp.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chi...-infrastructure-investment-a8610756.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/02/china-zimbabwe-workers-abuse

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-companies-
probed-over-local-employee-abuse_2744714.html

https://qz.com/africa/1423930/kenya-must-deal-with-chinese-racial-discrimination

https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/11/03/zambia-workers-detail-abuse-chinese-owned-mines

https://www.dw.com/en/the-racist-face-of-the-chinese-presence-in-africa/a-46223068

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. You claim that China is this sympathetic, respectable nation that has the best interests of African people at heart. Well. That has been proven to be false. Africans are also facing massive racism in China itself;

https://www.inkstonenews.com/opinion/black-panther-what-it-be-black-china/article/2136990

But it's good to see the African people are waking up to the scam that is Chinese investment:



https://m.news24.com/Africa/News/say-no-...n-zambia-over-beijings-presence-20180923

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monk...gainst-chinese-development-aid-heres-why


So again, don't go telling me how nice and respectable the Chinese are in Africa. They have no respect for anyone who isn't Chinese, and it's glaringly obvious to the rest of the world.

Keep drinking that pro-Beijing, Chinese economic investment rah-rah kool-aid though. Seems to make you happy in life, albeit in a delusional state of mind.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Firstly, your "I know more than you" bluff doesn't intimidate me.

Secondly, you are so full of shit I can smell you half way around the country. Implying the the Chinese treat Africans fairly and have respect for them? That is laughable at best.

https://www.heritage.org/global-politics...s-beijings-rhetoric-about-friendship-the

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/world/africa/kenya-china-racism.amp.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/chi...-infrastructure-investment-a8610756.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/02/china-zimbabwe-workers-abuse

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-companies-
probed-over-local-employee-abuse_2744714.html

https://qz.com/africa/1423930/kenya-must-deal-with-chinese-racial-discrimination

https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/11/03/zambia-workers-detail-abuse-chinese-owned-mines

https://www.dw.com/en/the-racist-face-of-the-chinese-presence-in-africa/a-46223068

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. You claim that China is this sympathetic, respectable nation that has the best interests of African people at heart. Well. That has been proven to be false. Africans are also facing massive racism in China itself;

https://www.inkstonenews.com/opinion/black-panther-what-it-be-black-china/article/2136990

But it's good to see the African people are waking up to the scam that is Chinese investment:



https://m.news24.com/Africa/News/say-no-...n-zambia-over-beijings-presence-20180923

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monk...gainst-chinese-development-aid-heres-why


So again, don't go telling me how nice and respectable the Chinese are in Africa. They have no respect for anyone who isn't Chinese, and it's glaringly obvious to the rest of the world.

Keep drinking that pro-Beijing, Chinese economic investment rah-rah kool-aid though. Seems to make you happy in life, albeit in a delusional state of mind.

Again, I said, The Africa-China relationship is based on business and trade, it's not about one group being benevolent to another. Business and trade is what African and African government like about China. Both parties are acting in their self-interest and are not patronizing the other party. This is why China is seen as a good partner for Africans, unlike the west who has shown in 300 years who has had a much much worst record with dealing with Africa than China has ever had.

Since the 60's China has been investing and building infrastructure in Africa and has continued to generate mostly goodwill on the continent that no other non-African nation has generated. Isolated incidence by some Chinese company is far outweighed by the work or other Chinese companies and institutions which have benefited Africa.

Also, are you forgetting that Canada has SNC as a bad actor throughout the world.

[Pinus]

Originally Posted by Nite

I doubt you know more about Africa than me. The vast majority of cases, Chinese investment has been a great boost to Africa's infrastructure and Manufacturing.
Overall Chinese companies are no worse than other companies in Africa and no one goes missing for speaking out about the few bad ones.
Name me one incident where someone went missing for opposing Chinese business in Africa?
There would be riots, protest and reprisals in every part of Africa if a Chinese company was actively killing Africans.

China has a much more positive profile in Africa compared to most western countries and businesses, because the relationship has always been based on business and trade as opposed to the west, which has a history of colonization, racism, and genocide. The west is just seen as a source of government revenue in Africa while China and the Chinese are seen as business partners, markets, people you learn how to develop a poor economy and build infrastructure on a large scale.

There are countless power project, hospitals, water plants, transportation projects, manufacturing, and other projects which are crucial for Africa development that is largely being built with Chinese funding and companies. What China wants in Africa are markets for its goods and services, to not be so reliant on the west, and it knows if Africa stays poor then it will not be much of a market.

Originally Posted by Nite

Again, I said, The Africa-China relationship is based on business and trade, it's not about one group being benevolent to another. Business and trade is what African and African government like about China. Both parties are acting in their self-interest and are not patronizing the other party. This is why China is seen as a good partner for Africans, unlike the west who has shown in 300 years who has had a much much worst record with dealing with Africa than China has ever had.

The root of the issue is western governments and companies have always tried to control Africa while China has always been a partner, since the 60's and has much more goodwill on the continent than any other non-African nation. Isolated incidence by some Chinese company is far outweighed by the work or other Chinese companies and institutions which have benefited Africa.

are you forgetting also that Canada has SNC so you should not be throwing rocks in glass houses

Isolated incidents. Man, you are ignorant. And if you are trying to compare financial fraud to verbal and physical abuse as being equal crimes, then you have no soul.

You must be a great parrot for Beijing.

[Nite]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Isolated incidents. Man, you are ignorant. And if you are trying to compare financial fraud to verbal and physical abuse as being equal crimes, then you have no soul.

You must be a great parrot for Beijing.

There are thousands of Chinese companies operating in Africa without any issues.
A few maybe abusive as any company in the world may be abusing.
Are you saying only Chinese companies abuse, workers?

Earlier you even said that Chinese companies have people killed in Africa for speaking out. I am still waiting to hear or a single incident where this has ever happened.
The local managers of a Chinese company in Africa who were even accused of killing African would never make it out alive, I can guarantee you that. so I highly doubt your accusation has ever happened.