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  #9981  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2019, 2:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
Well, looks like Mr. Mish (aka SJW extremist) was wrong, again
Based on our trade agreements which the judge looked at but said weren’t in his power to consider.
     
     
  #9982  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2019, 9:01 PM
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Based on our trade agreements which the judge looked at but said weren’t in his power to consider.
Nope, wrong again.

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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
If you read the judgement, which includes all the relevant arguments that were made at trial (and the ones that were rejected as irrelevent) you'll see that the judge absolutely considered - and rejected - all the arguments that Misher cited, which were the ones made by the plaintiff in the case. Among the judge's explanation are the statements "there has been no demonstration by the plaintiff that those FTA’s contain investor protection provisions. Neither do those FTA’s contain national treatment or expropriation compensation obligations relating to investments."

There are several other points to counter the claims quoted by Misher.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=8730196&postcount=17
     
     
  #9983  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 4:58 PM
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My, what a shrewd bunch Canadian investors are:

MONTREAL ― A Toronto-based investment research firm has pinpointed what it sees as the key risk to Canada’s housing market: Money-losing investor-owners.

In an informal poll of its clientele earlier this month, Veritas found that only half of those who own real estate as an investment are cash-flow positive, earning more money than the property costs them.

About 18 per cent are breaking even, while 33 per cent said they are losing money on their investments
. Presumably, they are counting on rising house prices to turn a profit; the Veritas survey showed 84 per cent of investors don’t plan on selling for now...(bold mine)


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/condo-investors-losing-money_ca_5db46899e4b006d4916f8837
     
     
  #9984  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 6:14 PM
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My, what a shrewd bunch Canadian investors are:

MONTREAL ― A Toronto-based investment research firm has pinpointed what it sees as the key risk to Canada’s housing market: Money-losing investor-owners.

In an informal poll of its clientele earlier this month, Veritas found that only half of those who own real estate as an investment are cash-flow positive, earning more money than the property costs them.

About 18 per cent are breaking even, while 33 per cent said they are losing money on their investments
. Presumably, they are counting on rising house prices to turn a profit; the Veritas survey showed 84 per cent of investors don’t plan on selling for now...(bold mine)


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/condo-investors-losing-money_ca_5db46899e4b006d4916f8837
If you're breaking even that's still good, as you are building equity assuming that the property is occupied on a continuous basis, or close.
     
     
  #9985  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 6:29 PM
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If you're breaking even that's still good, as you are building equity assuming that the property is occupied on a continuous basis, or close.
I wouldn't believe a survey. It's easy to miss costs and people prefer to think of themselves as making wise investments.

The cap rates on Vancouver condos are generally miserable. By this I mean that you might buy a condo for $600,000 and rent it out for $2,000 a month. This type of deal only makes sense if condos are shooting up in price. They have not been lately.

On top of the mortgage you need to account for condo fees, insurance, depreciation, and taxes. Then there's the time you have to spend dealing with the property and the tenants.

IMO most amateur condo landlords break the most basic rules of investing. They are not diversified, they don't look at opportunity cost, and they don't understand the risk of being leveraged through a mortgage. Some of them nevertheless do very well for themselves. Just like at a roulette wheel in a casino.
     
     
  #9986  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 6:44 PM
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^ Well yes, by breaking even I mean once all costs are considered. The mortgage is only one part of that equation.
     
     
  #9987  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 7:38 PM
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Investments tend to be bad when an abundance of inexperienced investors flood the market. Cannabis suffered from this recently. Tech stocks in the late 90s too. We're seeing this with housing.

Someone who zero idea about investing still thinks it's a good idea to buy a rental property. It's worked so far in Vancouver and Toronto. In smaller markets like Regina or London, it's put thousands of inept investors deep in the red.
     
     
  #9988  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 7:45 PM
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Investments tend to be bad when an abundance of inexperienced investors flood the market. Cannabis suffered from this recently. Tech stocks in the late 90s too. We're seeing this with housing.

Someone who zero idea about investing still thinks it's a good idea to buy a rental property. It's worked so far in Vancouver and Toronto. In smaller markets like Regina or London, it's put thousands of inept investors deep in the red.
Yep. In Vancouver, many many people aspire to be amateur landlords. The most common thing you hear from them is that it's like a free ride because the tenants will "pay the mortgage". But the numbers generally don't work out for even that these days.

Back in 2010 when prices were considerably lower than today I was renting the ground floor of a house in Vancouver for $1600 per month. Its assessed value was around $1.5M back then. I would guess it's more like $3M now, and the rent would be $2000-2500 per month, while the annual property tax bill is around $3000-4000.
     
     
  #9989  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 8:08 PM
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^ Well yes, by breaking even I mean once all costs are considered. The mortgage is only one part of that equation.
Yeah, but we all know that guy who thinks he's winning just because he's covering the mortgage. If you're not in a overheating market you might have done better just putting the cash into a REIT.
     
     
  #9990  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 9:34 PM
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Yep. In Vancouver, many many people aspire to be amateur landlords. The most common thing you hear from them is that it's like a free ride because the tenants will "pay the mortgage". But the numbers generally don't work out for even that these days.

Back in 2010 when prices were considerably lower than today I was renting the ground floor of a house in Vancouver for $1600 per month. Its assessed value was around $1.5M back then. I would guess it's more like $3M now, and the rent would be $2000-2500 per month, while the annual property tax bill is around $3000-4000.
Which is why it’s dumb to be scaring away local investment by putting in greater tenant protections and rent control while scaring away foreign investment with a FBT. Vancouver’s below 1% rental vacancy rate came in amid cheers of applause.
     
     
  #9991  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 7:18 PM
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Just heard on the radio that in September 2019, there were 2,800 units worth of dedicated rental housing being built in Ottawa, up from 1,800 in September 2018 and just 400 in September 2014.

Overall, new apartment/condo starts has surged from about 1200 in 2016 to 4400 in 2018, more than tripling in just 2 years.

Hopefully this explosion in construction can bring the vacancy rate to a decent number. It's nice to see construction actually ticking up to correspond with increases in rents--the market seems to at least be working here.
     
     
  #9992  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 10:50 PM
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Just heard on the radio that in September 2019, there were 2,800 units worth of dedicated rental housing being built in Ottawa, up from 1,800 in September 2018 and just 400 in September 2014.

Overall, new apartment/condo starts has surged from about 1200 in 2016 to 4400 in 2018, more than tripling in just 2 years.

Hopefully this explosion in construction can bring the vacancy rate to a decent number. It's nice to see construction actually ticking up to correspond with increases in rents--the market seems to at least be working here.
The rate of rental construction in Ottawa is still well below what's required to bring down the vacancy rate, given the recent uptick in population growth, no?
     
     
  #9993  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2019, 11:07 PM
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The rate of rental construction in Ottawa is still well below what's required to bring down the vacancy rate, given the recent uptick in population growth, no?
In the end Purpose built rental is a great thing but it won't be close to enough to meet our needs anytime soon. We rely on people renting out half the condos that are bought for our rentals. If we didn't have speculators/investors buying condos our rental supply would go from a crisis to a genocide.

Thats why I am worried as I feel we've been neglecting our condo construction in favor of encouraging PBR. If this ratio was 1 for 1 it would be fine but it seems like we're turning down 2-3 units of condos for 1 unit of PBR. Not just that, but condos pay higher taxes and development fees. By discouraging condos and supporting PBR we may be making a mistake.
     
     
  #9994  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 2:32 PM
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In the end Purpose built rental is a great thing but it won't be close to enough to meet our needs anytime soon. We rely on people renting out half the condos that are bought for our rentals. If we didn't have speculators/investors buying condos our rental supply would go from a crisis to a genocide.

Thats why I am worried as I feel we've been neglecting our condo construction in favor of encouraging PBR. If this ratio was 1 for 1 it would be fine but it seems like we're turning down 2-3 units of condos for 1 unit of PBR. Not just that, but condos pay higher taxes and development fees. By discouraging condos and supporting PBR we may be making a mistake.
PBR killed the condo market in Edmonton.

The small time investor that was buying condo's cant compete with the amenity war occurring with PBR. Small time investors are taking a huge hit trying to unload their properties which continue to decimate the condo market. These small time investors made up a huge chunk of sales. Add to this, that a huge percentage of existing PBR stock downtown is 40ish years old and for the first time in a generation an option exist to rent in modern PBR buildings as opposed to either old PBR or shadow rentals in new condo's. Its a real shake up.

In hindsight, the only regret I have in life was buying a condo downtown. Should have rented instead. But I was youthful and foolish and thought living downtown was something that was practical long term. Its a short period in your life where it makes sense to live downtown and you make yourself extremely vulnerable to highs and lows in the market when you all of a sudden have a kid and realize just how impractical it is and need to gtfo and buy a house.
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  #9995  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 10:12 PM
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Why is it impractical? Many folks in Toronto live in rental and condo apartments raising 1-3 kids: my building is full of them. Many of these people don't own cars either.

The real reasons for low vacancies are airbnbs, unoccupied investor-owned condos, renovictions, many basement suites being returned to SFH/mcmansionized and media/social pressure to live near transit/jobs. There's thousands of apartment buildings with higher vacancies in less desirable neighbourhoods like north Etobicoke, the Jane/Keele/Dufferin north of Eglinton corridors, East York etc.
     
     
  #9996  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 10:41 PM
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Why is it impractical? Many folks in Toronto live in rental and condo apartments raising 1-3 kids: my building is full of them. Many of these people don't own cars either.

The real reasons for low vacancies are airbnbs, unoccupied investor-owned condos, renovictions, many basement suites being returned to SFH/mcmansionized and media/social pressure to live near transit/jobs. There's thousands of apartment buildings with higher vacancies in less desirable neighbourhoods like north Etobicoke, the Jane/Keele/Dufferin north of Eglinton corridors, East York etc.
This may be true in Ontario but not in Vancouver. We literally don't have enough housing for everyone, even owned homes that aren't on the rental market only have 1-2% in vacancies according to our empty home tax information.
     
     
  #9997  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2019, 11:01 PM
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Why is it impractical? Many folks in Toronto live in rental and condo apartments raising 1-3 kids: my building is full of them. Many of these people don't own cars either.

.
Guarantee you the vast majority would rather live in a house if it was an affordable option. Fortunately here, it is.
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  #9998  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 7:18 PM
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Honestly Seattle tends to be very innovative with its housing and should stand as an example to all of Canada. "environmentalists against environmental regulations that can hurt the environment."

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SEATTLE’S LATEST HOUSING REFORM SHOWS HOW ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARE RETHINKING CITIES
A unanimous city council vote and broad environmentalist support reflect a consensus that compact communities are a crucial climate solution.

A who’s-who of Seattle environmental non-profits—350 Seattle, Sierra Club, Climate Solutions, Futurewise, Transportation Choices Coalition, and Sightline—all backed the city council’s recent 8-0 vote to limit environmental review of homebuilding and the rules that govern it.

Why would groups with the mission of creating a sustainable future want to rein in environmental oversight?

Call it: environmentalists against environmental regulations that can hurt the environment.

On paper, the policy tweaks Seattle just adopted are modest wins for housing abundance. But in the big picture, the unanimous vote reflects a sea change in environmentalist thinking—a shift away from the once widely held belief that cities are an environmental scourge, and toward the contemporary understanding that cities are an essential environmental solution.

Adding homes to cities like Seattle not only helps protect farms and forests from sprawl, but also cuts climate pollution—because in compact communities people drive less and their homes use less energy.

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And that solution hinges on housing. Adding homes to cities like Seattle not only helps protect farms and forests from sprawl, but also cuts climate pollution—because in compact communities people drive less and their homes use less energy.

As Sierra Club Seattle Group Chair Brittney Bush Bollay put it, “one of the most important things we can do for the environment is to make it easier for people to live near where they work and play.”

Washington’s State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) mandates environmental review of individual homebuilding projects, as well as changes to zoning laws that increase the number of homes that can be built. Enter Seattle’s anti-housing activists who obstruct both, hijacking the SEPA review process to stonewall the construction of new homes—that is, who abuse environmental laws to cause net harm to the environment.

See my litany of Seattle SEPA abuses here. Flawed passages in a state code section that happens to include the word “environmental” have let anti-change activists greenwash their efforts to block everything from housing for formerly homeless seniors to one of the greenest office buildings in the world. The latest gem: a legal appeal to stop the creation of tiny house villages for homeless people.

Taken as a whole, SEPA is an indispensable set of laws for a wide range of vital environmental protections. Sightline has leveraged SEPA’s review and public process to help kill harmful fossil fuel infrastructure projects, like a giant coal terminal at Longview and an oil-by-rail terminal at Anacortes.

But SEPA, conceived in the era of white flight and smog-spewing gas guzzlers, has not kept up with the ecological imperative to welcome more people to cities. For example, SEPA is set up to penalize an apartment building for providing too little parking, but to ignore how putting homes near jobs lowers driving overall.

Worse, under SEPA rules, anyone who doesn’t like a development or zoning change that would bring more homes to the city can file an appeal—groundless or not—halting progress for months or even years.

The editorial board of Seattle’s big daily warned that the environmental community is getting duped by the “faux environmentalism” of SEPA reform.

Seattle city council’s unanimous vote and the broad environmentalist support attest to a different reality. Fresh off sharing the stage with author Naomi Klein to discuss Klein’s new climate change book On Fire, Councilmember Teresa Mosqueda summed it up: “We have to be a welcoming city… we have to build density… [SEPA reform] is an environmental justice policy.”

Seattle’s SEPA reform merely takes advantage of state laws intended to stop SEPA abuse
Seattle isn’t going rogue on SEPA reform. All the new ordinance does is allow Seattle to apply SEPA fixes that the state already adopted.

Recognizing SEPA’s potential to backfire on urban homebuilding a decade ago, Washington lawmakers legislated several options to limit the damage. In 2012, Seattle took advantage, raising the size threshold that triggers mandatory environmental review of housing developments from the default 20 units to 200 units, though only in the city’s designated urban centers and villages. In 2015, a technicality forced the city to temporarily revert to 20 units. The bill Seattle just passed brings the threshold back up to 200—it’s nothing new.

To further ward off SEPA abuse, Seattle could expand the exemption to cover the whole city and raise it higher than 200 units. The catch? The city would have to conduct SEPA review of any such proposed changes!

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Which brings me to the next piece of Seattle’s SEPA reform bill. Earlier this year, Washington adopted legislation (HB 1923) that grants a safe harbor from SEPA appeals on a select list of policy actions cities and counties can take to encourage more housing—mostly various flavors of fairer, greener zoning. To access the SEPA appeal protection, local governments have to “check the box” to align their codes with the state’s.

If Seattle had the HB 1923 box to check before proposing changes to rules for accessory dwellings in 2015, anti-housing activists could not have filed their appeals that delayed the reforms for three years.

HB 1923 also shields raising SEPA review thresholds for multifamily homebuilding. If, as I suggest above, Seattle opts to boost thresholds further, the city’s SEPA review of the proposal cannot be appealed.

Lastly, the new Seattle ordinance checks another box to enable an older state law designed to curtail redundant SEPA review. That law says if a city has adopted a comprehensive plan that was subjected to environmental review under SEPA, then subsequent changes to city regulations consistent with that plan are exempt from review.

No Washington city that I’m aware of has utilized this exemption, but the potential seems huge. Could a proposal to ban off-street parking quotas, for example, qualify for exemption from SEPA review in a city with a comprehensive plan that calls for a shift away from cars? Perhaps even Seattle’s recent affordable housing upzones, delayed for over a year by a SEPA appeal, could have been exempt.

Compact communities are good for the planet, so let’s make it easier to build more of them
All told, Seattle took a few solid but small steps toward keeping Washington’s signature environmental law from being abused to sabotage housing options.

The bigger story is the solidifying consensus among environmental leaders and elected officials on the far-reaching environmental benefits of opening up the city to more residents; and the consequent recognition that even regulations originally intended to protect the environment can end up doing more harm than good if they thwart homebuilding in growing cities like Seattle.

There’s much more to be done, though. As I wrote previously, “to work for cities, SEPA ultimately needs major surgery at the state level.” The core flaw in SEPA analyses is that only negative impacts count. In other words, SEPA says: who cares if adding homes lowers carbon emissions and curbs sprawl. It’s things like shadows, view loss, and parking we need worry about most.

To put a finer point on it: today, regulations for environmental assessment that don’t prioritize climate action are garbage. The long but necessary battle to fix SEPA has barely begun.

Endnote
One recent SEPA appeal turned the usual story on its head, acting to delay policy that would work against housing abundance. Attorneys representing developer interests appealed Seattle’s SEPA review of its proposal to impose new impact fees on residential and commercial construction. The appellants argued that the review didn’t account for adverse environmental impacts caused by impact fees driving up the cost of housing—a valid argument! The appeal was upheld on a technicality, so will likely only delay the city from its misguided march toward impact fees on new homes.
     
     
  #9999  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CityTech View Post
Just heard on the radio that in September 2019, there were 2,800 units worth of dedicated rental housing being built in Ottawa, up from 1,800 in September 2018 and just 400 in September 2014.

Overall, new apartment/condo starts has surged from about 1200 in 2016 to 4400 in 2018, more than tripling in just 2 years.

Hopefully this explosion in construction can bring the vacancy rate to a decent number. It's nice to see construction actually ticking up to correspond with increases in rents--the market seems to at least be working here.
This is popular opinion and why everyone get's so giddy when a new rental building breaks ground on SSP.It's not in the best interest of investors to build enough to shift vacancies to favour renters or to rent units below the highest end of the market. The investment is in property value which has less to do with being fully leased. These new units have actually have greater potential to shift rents even higher than lower.
     
     
  #10000  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 7:57 PM
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This may be true in Ontario but not in Vancouver. We literally don't have enough housing for everyone, even owned homes that aren't on the rental market only have 1-2% in vacancies according to our empty home tax information.
The problem in Vancouver is unique and completely government made. By the province and city turning a blind eye to rampant money laundering and hence real estate speculation resulting in it's truly outrageous real estate prices, it has artificially created a rental crisis.

In the rest of the country, a family making $70k {about both the Vancouver and national average income} would easily afford a condo or townhouse and in most areas a full SFH but not in Vancouver. The result has been middle income people being stuck renting as owning is not optional. This means hundreds of thousands of people who would be buyers in the rest of the country are instead stuck renting. All the rental supply in the world won't make any difference in Vancouver until home prices fall significantly and those middle income earners can finally leave the rental market.
     
     
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