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  #201  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 9:54 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
By land area and # of cities the majority of BC voted blue
LOL.. I see your hatred of democracy and love for authoritarian rule extends to us here in Canada.
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  #202  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Corndogger View Post
LOL! Low unemployment rates do not equal a strong economy.
Please, let me know how the economy is going with stats, not feelings.
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  #203  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Interesting article in French about Jason Kenney's claims about Alberta "sending" equalization money to Quebec.

I think most of us (though not all) understand that the money doesn't come directly from Alberta's coffers.

But still, how much of the 13.1 billion dollars Quebec receives in equalization, actually comes from federal taxes paid in Alberta?

This article says it's 1.8 billion.

And if Legault wrote Kenney a cheque for 1.8 billion, Alberta would still have a deficit and Quebec would still have a surplus.

Also, if all taxes in Alberta (sales and income) were raised to Quebec levels, Alberta would have a 30 billion dollar surplus.

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2019/11/12/fausses-nouvelles-albertaines
Saw that in the paper yesterday, almost pointed out here that I was vindicated (I had a round ~20% as my estimate for the share that's Quebec's own money and it's 18%, and I had also overestimated how much Alberta pays).

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  #204  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Especially when employment is coming from part-time, service industry, and government jobs.
Prove it.
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  #205  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 9:59 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
Vancouver has 0 interest*

By land area and # of cities the majority of BC voted blue and there is a lot of support for Wexit due to how disenfranchised many of us feel. The opinion of Vancouver does not equal BC and the ruling party of BC did not obtain the majority vote. I have many friends who have brought it up and funnily enough an old university group partner and I began discussing it on facebook.

Western alienation does exist and exists everywhere from West Ontario to BC. Its not something you can just dismiss. We feel that our way of life is under attack and that our opinions are being trampled upon. There is a difference between people opposing what someone else is doing and people opposing what someone else is forcing them to do. When you enforce policies on people that they don't want you are going to get backlash. In a democratic system the opinion of everyone matters and governments are supposed to represent everyone, not just the ones who voted for them. As you can see below most of BC did not vote for the ruling government and should Wexit happen and the Canadian West be divided according to who voted blue, the West would have a route to the Pacific.

that's nothing new, I grew up in NE BC and its always had a hate on for Vancouver. Anywhere outside of Vancouver in BC hates Vancouver. I lived on the island a number of places and times and guess what they hate Vancouver too. Church going is still strong in small town BC hence the support for conservatives.

Most people in BC do not support the idea of Wexit.
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  #206  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bobi View Post
Fascinating thread... Rocadians eating and tearing each other apart... without scapegoating Québec (except for a few minus and feeble attempts, as always). Keep going dudes, I'm so entertained(what I actually need is a popcorn eating smilie here).
Yeah, it's an entertaining read.

Here's the internet's classic popcorn eater, back when he was still the same color as Temporarily Disguised JT:
(Looked more normal too... though he produced good music even when whitefaced)

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  #207  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:06 PM
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Quit it with that "mostly blue" BC map, it's misleading. The election results for BC are the left part of this equal-area riding map:
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  #208  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:07 PM
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Puts an interesting perspective on the results.
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  #209  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:07 PM
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It'ss quite obvious we are heading into a recession but our long-term prospects will depend completely on how we embrace the future and no where is this more true than Alberta. Due to the phase out of oil over the next 30 years and natural gas shortly there after, Alberta has the most to lose but conversly it also has the most to gain

Alberta became a 20th century energy powerhouse but ,unlike what some may think, it could also become a 21st century one all depending on it's own actions. Oil is dying and nothing will stop that but Alberta is very fortunate in also having huge potential in it's replacement.......hydrogen. We are moving into a hydrogen economy because it is the ONLY environmentally sustainable option we have. This is why Toyota and Hyundai are investing very little in battery technology and billions into hydrogen, they can see the writing on the wall.

A recent Alberta technology has been developed with game changing potential...........a way to create hydrogen from already capped oil wells and from current oil sands at one-eigth current production costs due to needing very little new infrastructure because the oil companies have already put it in place. Alberta should be putting billions into such developments and working with Ottawa and the car companies to build 10,000 new hydrogen fueling stations across the country over the next 20 years.

The potential for hydrogen is truly endless as it is the ONLY technological or logistical alternative to oil in ALL applications. Unfortunately, instead of offering billions to develope a truly exciting new technology it is spending billions in tax cuts to prop up a dying one and it will young Albertans who will pay the price for this lack of vision. Alberta has the potential to secure a prosperous future and going from an internation pariah to the poster child of a strong green economy but only if it has both the will and courage to do so and unfortunately, that is sadly lacking.
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  #210  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
It'ss quite obvious we are heading into a recession but our long-term prospects will depend completely on how we embrace the future and no where is this more true than Alberta. Due to the phase out of oil over the next 30 years and natural gas shortly there after, Alberta has the most to lose but conversly it also has the most to gain

Alberta became a 20th century energy powerhouse but ,unlike what some may think, it could also become a 21st century one all depending on it's own actions. Oil is dying and nothing will stop that but Alberta is very fortunate in also having huge potential in it's replacement.......hydrogen. We are moving into a hydrogen economy because it is the ONLY environmentally sustainable option we have. This is why Toyota and Hyundai are investing very little in battery technology and billions into hydrogen, they can see the writing on the wall.

A recent Alberta technology has been developed with game changing potential...........a way to create hydrogen from already capped oil wells and from current oil sands at one-eigth current production costs due to needing very little new infrastructure because the oil companies have already put it in place. Alberta should be putting billions into such developments and working with Ottawa and the car companies to build 10,000 new hydrogen fueling stations across the country over the next 20 years.

The potential for hydrogen is truly endless as it is the ONLY technological or logistical alternative to oil in ALL applications. Unfortunately, instead of offering billions to develope a truly exciting new technology it is spending billions in tax cuts to prop up a dying one and it will young Albertans who will pay the price for this lack of vision. Alberta has the potential to secure a prosperous future and going from an internation pariah to the poster child of a strong green economy but only if it has both the will and courage to do so and unfortunately, that is sadly lacking.
I've posted before showing that oil is not dying. Its used in too many products. Even ignoring its use for transportation, carbon fibre among other ultra-light metal replacement materials will demand oil well into the 22nd century. Oil is simply a great source of carbon molecules.

And if we look at transportation electric cars and planes are nowhere near being feasible. BC doesn't have enough power generation to cover its future industrial development (LNG) even once Site C is complete and would require 5+ more Site C's to cover full adoption of electric cars. If BC can't go electric how is every other place in the world going to? Many places still rely on non-renewables for electrical power. We don't have "cheap" nuclear available and I don't think we're ready to allow most third world nations to develop nuclear power. Not to mention that we still have no way to get a large passenger aircraft from one place to another that doesn't involve a large nuclear reactor that may break up and spread radioactives into our airstream. Also I don't see any way to get big cargo ships and tankers across the ocean without nuclear. A full scale cheap global adoption of nuclear power is required if we want to get off oil and I just don't see that happening in the next 40 years. Whats much more likely is that we develop carbon sequestration and other technologies to reverse climate change and use those to balance out and reverse our pollution. We can power those with advanced nuclear technologies in first world nations.
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  #211  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by misher View Post
I've posted before showing that oil is not dying. Its used in too many products. Even ignoring its use for transportation, carbon fibre among other ultra-light metal replacement materials will demand oil well into the 22nd century. Oil is simply a great source of carbon molecules.
It doesn't have to die for the industry to experience collapse. It just needs a steady decrease in demand, which is coming soon for oil.

See coal as an example.
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  #212  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:20 PM
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Then that should make (or should have made) the transition from oil to hydrogen so gradual that when we end up phasing out oil many years later, the pain is minimal. (This is in response to misher, by the way.)
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  #213  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Then that should make (or should have made) the transition from oil to hydrogen so gradual that when we end up phasing out oil many years later, the pain is minimal. (This is in response to misher, by the way.)
Personally I don't support hydrogen I support nuclear and electricity. I would agree Alberta should invest in industries. Carbon sequestration is a great one that they are investing in. Another one would be nuclear power. A great one would be material technologies as most future materials will likely use oil. I can see future windows being made from acrylic or other polymers as there are several advantages to it. Acrylic seems to be the "transparent aluminum" of the future. (Actual Transparent Aluminum aka Alon does exist but I don't see it becoming affordable or widespread within the next decades, it currently costs 3-4x what bullet resistant glass does).

Our future relies on plastic and polymers and oil is one of the cheapest materials for these.
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  #214  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:31 PM
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If all of those technologies mean big return on investment, it doesn’t hurt to invest in them. Whether or not Kenny and/Moe will listen is something else.
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  #215  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:32 PM
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how does that create a sellable export product?
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  #216  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:33 PM
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how does that create a sellable export product?
The ones requiring oil, or anything that Alberta can make?
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  #217  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:34 PM
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he wants to see nuclear power in Alberta, how do you sell that power to China or Japan or whoever
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  #218  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:34 PM
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Misher you are also forgetting that oil prices will decline over the next decade. It is already shocking how low oil prices are when you consider the current situation in one of the big boys on the oil block.........Venezuela. Venezuela has gone from a monstrous producer and exporter to nearly nothing in a few short years and yet oil prices are still suppressed. Eventually Maduro will get kicked out and the first thing a new government will do is ramp up production again to get some very badly needed foreign currency and investment.

Misher, you are exactly why I am pessimistic about Alberta's future. Whether you, Alberta, or I like it or not, oil is dying and nothing is going to change that. As I have stated MANY times consumption will be plateauing in about 3 years, begin a definately decline by 2030 and then begin a huge collapse by 2040 as new application, and technologies become common place and much cheaper. Just because yyou want oil to remain our defacto energy supply doesn't make it so.
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  #219  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
he wants to see nuclear power in Alberta, how do you sell that power to China or Japan or whoever
Why is that a requirement?
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  #220  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2019, 10:37 PM
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Why is that a requirement?
to have a product to sell to the global market? isn't that what the current problem is? alberta has the oil but can't get it to market?
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