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  #1041  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 5:07 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be bus service, just that I don't see the demand (and thus frequency) being high enough to warrant dedicated bus lanes. As I said, there is a much stronger argument for HOV lanes, which could also be used by buses.
Only if they are enforced.
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  #1042  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 5:08 PM
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The feds would likely object to interprovincial tolls at a minimum, citing the need for unimpeded access for employees to workplaces on either side of the river.

I don't work in Ottawa but if tolls were put on all the bridges when arriving in Ontario I would support equally high or higher tolls when arriving in Québec. I would even agitate for that.
I would support tolls in the other direction too. The same logic holds; there's plenty of Ontario residents driving on Gatineau's streets.
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  #1043  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2019, 5:18 PM
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Only if they are enforced.
Agreed. The same could be said for bus lanes though.

Locally, the RCMP seem to do a better job of enforcing traffic regulations than either the Ottawa Police or the OPP (personal observation).
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  #1044  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 10:06 AM
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Agreed. The same could be said for bus lanes though.

Locally, the RCMP seem to do a better job of enforcing traffic regulations than either the Ottawa Police or the OPP (personal observation).
Gatineau police enforce HOV lanes quite aggressively. When I used them I would get checked a couple of times a month. Was actually annoying. This was Gréber and Fournier.
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  #1045  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 5:41 PM
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Gatineau police enforce HOV lanes quite aggressively. When I used them I would get checked a couple of times a month. Was actually annoying. This was Gréber and Fournier.
Spent about 2 months using the Champlain Bridge or Tache and I don't recall seeing a single cop. Definitely saw a lot of single-occupant vehicles using the HOV lane though.
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  #1046  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 6:05 PM
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Spent about 2 months using the Champlain Bridge or Tache and I don't recall seeing a single cop. Definitely saw a lot of single-occupant vehicles using the HOV lane though.
Pretty sure that's RCMP territory. They don't give a shit
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  #1047  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2019, 7:13 PM
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Pretty sure that's RCMP territory. They don't give a shit
Champlain is RCMP, but Taché is city police.
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  #1048  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2019, 12:39 AM
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Pretty sure that's RCMP territory. They don't give a shit
Welp, at least the effort was made I guess.
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  #1049  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2019, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be bus service, just that I don't see the demand (and thus frequency) being high enough to warrant dedicated bus lanes. As I said, there is a much stronger argument for HOV lanes, which could also be used by buses.
I agree the ridership would likely not warrant a grade separated RoW on paper, but for me it's more about future-proofing. If we're spending billions on on a new bridge, might as well build segregated lanes for transit. If it's somehow possible to use them as HOVs until transit demands high enough, then we could do that.
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  #1050  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 7:19 PM
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The RCMP seems to spend a lot of time and gas money driving back and forth on the Rockcliffe Parkway, handing out tickets. It seems a ridiculous waste to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Agreed. The same could be said for bus lanes though.

Locally, the RCMP seem to do a better job of enforcing traffic regulations than either the Ottawa Police or the OPP (personal observation).
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  #1051  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 9:43 PM
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The RCMP seems to spend a lot of time and gas money driving back and forth on the Rockcliffe Parkway, handing out tickets. It seems a ridiculous waste to me.
It's good that the RCMP patrols that parkway, especially the stretch between the turn-off for the ice cream stand (east of the roundabout with tracks in the middle) and the tennis club. It's got lots of curves and cliffsides. Very dangerous for people to speed there.

I say this as someone who is not always enthused about speed enforcement BTW.

In this case it's not abusive at all.
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  #1052  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 2:55 PM
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Article from this morning. I see these stories from time to time. So enforcement is a thing.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/justi...Cv-Kmr9SO9puuXwgAfQCoRbqtcFqfZbb4jFfSxOs
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  #1053  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 11:37 AM
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How did a new interprovincial bridge fall through the cracks of the federal election campaign?

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 17, 2019


The best way to steer clear of an impending controversy might be to avoid it altogether, and that’s what seems to be happening in the federal election campaign when it comes to building a new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

About six years ago, the prospect of building a $1-billion interprovincial crossing at Kettle Island at the east end raised such a furor that the Ontario government decided it wouldn’t support a bridge in that location, even though a lengthy environmental assessment had suggested it was the best spot for a sixth Ottawa-Gatineau bridge.

The issue remained dormant until earlier this year, when the federal Liberal government in the 2019 budget saddled the National Capital Commission with the job of investigating interprovincial crossings and refreshing the last study, adding grief to an agency already trying to figure out how to develop LeBreton Flats, fix 24 Sussex Dr., repair bridges, locate monuments and beautify shorelines.

A new interprovincial bridge over the Ottawa River — and maybe a second new bridge — was suddenly back in play.

The NCC called up consultant WSP Canada to refresh the bridge study shelved in 2013. The NCC will eventually receive an updated recommendation on where a sixth Ottawa-Gatineau crossing should be built.

The original lengthy environmental assessment ended with Kettle Island being recommended as the best bridge corridor and it’s unlikely that finding will change after the study’s refresh.

During the federal election campaign, though, local candidates have been quiet on possibility that a bridge carrying transport trucks, regular traffic and maybe public transit might be eyed for their communities.

The federal riding of Ottawa-Vanier is where a bridge at Kettle Island would touch down.

Liberal incumbent Mona Fortier wouldn’t say if she would be amenable to a bridge entering her riding, though she called for an “evidenced-based strategy” to understand people’s transportation needs, underscoring the requirement to replace the aging Alexandra Bridge while also getting heavy trucks out of Ottawa’s downtown.

“I have been advocating to have a transportation and transit regional strategy for the region and not a piecemeal approach,” Fortier said.

Conservative candidate Joel Bernard said the prospect of an interprovincial bridge cutting into the community was “a non-starter” for him: “I would be a fool to work on a project that would turn quiet Ottawa-Vanier neighbourhoods into noisy heavy truck highways.”

NDP candidate Stéphanie Mercier didn’t respond by deadline Thursday.

Another big study is examining interprovincial travel in the region with a focus on bridges, although the NCC picked the most politically sensitive time, right in the middle of a federal election campaign, to release a request for proposals looking for a consultant to do an “integrated interprovincial crossings plan.”

As it turned out, the request for proposals itself was so contentious for the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau that the mayors this week asked the NCC to press pause on the contract competition.

Included in the “key elements” the NCC wanted addressed in the study were implementation of a new interprovincial bridge in the eastern sector and “identification” of a future bridge corridor in the western sector. The NCC also wanted the consultant to look into “the feasibility of a perimeter ring road encircling the urban areas of Gatineau and Ottawa.”

The notion of finding a location for not only a sixth bridge in the east, but also a seventh bridge in the west, combined with the idea of creating a ring road for the region, was enough to raise red flags by both cities.

The NCC withdrew the request for proposals on Wednesday, with agency spokesman Mario Tremblay indicating the tender would be reissued “in a matter of weeks” after further talks with the cities.

Mayor Jim Watson has railed against any idea of building a sixth interprovincial bridge between his city and Gatineau, favouring a long-shot proposal to build a $2-billion tunnel between Highway 417 and the mouth of the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge as a way to divert truck traffic from Ottawa’s core. The city assumes other levels of government would pay for a tunnel.

An environmental assessment for a tunnel hasn’t had enough funding to begin, and, even if a study was completed, there would be questions about who would pay for a tunnel, considering the city also requires billions in upper-government money to extend LRT to its suburbs.

Meanwhile, city councillors like Mathieu Fleury are trying to mitigate the dangers of transport trucks rumbling through central-east communities between Highway 417 in Ottawa and Highway 5 in Gatineau. The city will only consider narrowing King Edward Avenue when a new interprovincial bridge is built and the street is removed from the truck route network, along with an increase in public transit use between the two cities. The city doesn’t have the necessary $2 million-$4 million to implement decent traffic calming on King Edward as a short-term solution.

So much in the City of Ottawa rides on an interprovincial bridge being built, or not being built, by the federal government in co-operation with Ontario and Quebec.

On one hand, heavy-duty trucks can be diverted from the downtown to a bridge, but that would just move the traffic problem to other communities. On the other hand, trucks would continue rumbling through the downtown without a bridge, sustaining a precarious streetscape for pedestrians and cyclists.

You can see how it’s easier for some federal candidates to avoid facing this controversy head-on.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-cracks-of-the-federal-election-campaign
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  #1054  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 1:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
How did a new interprovincial bridge fall through the cracks of the federal election campaign?

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 17, 2019


The best way to steer clear of an impending controversy might be to avoid it altogether, and that’s what seems to be happening in the federal election campaign when it comes to building a new bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

About six years ago, the prospect of building a $1-billion interprovincial crossing at Kettle Island at the east end raised such a furor that the Ontario government decided it wouldn’t support a bridge in that location, even though a lengthy environmental assessment had suggested it was the best spot for a sixth Ottawa-Gatineau bridge.

The issue remained dormant until earlier this year, when the federal Liberal government in the 2019 budget saddled the National Capital Commission with the job of investigating interprovincial crossings and refreshing the last study, adding grief to an agency already trying to figure out how to develop LeBreton Flats, fix 24 Sussex Dr., repair bridges, locate monuments and beautify shorelines.

A new interprovincial bridge over the Ottawa River — and maybe a second new bridge — was suddenly back in play.

The NCC called up consultant WSP Canada to refresh the bridge study shelved in 2013. The NCC will eventually receive an updated recommendation on where a sixth Ottawa-Gatineau crossing should be built.

The original lengthy environmental assessment ended with Kettle Island being recommended as the best bridge corridor and it’s unlikely that finding will change after the study’s refresh.

During the federal election campaign, though, local candidates have been quiet on possibility that a bridge carrying transport trucks, regular traffic and maybe public transit might be eyed for their communities.

The federal riding of Ottawa-Vanier is where a bridge at Kettle Island would touch down.

Liberal incumbent Mona Fortier wouldn’t say if she would be amenable to a bridge entering her riding, though she called for an “evidenced-based strategy” to understand people’s transportation needs, underscoring the requirement to replace the aging Alexandra Bridge while also getting heavy trucks out of Ottawa’s downtown.

“I have been advocating to have a transportation and transit regional strategy for the region and not a piecemeal approach,” Fortier said.

Conservative candidate Joel Bernard said the prospect of an interprovincial bridge cutting into the community was “a non-starter” for him: “I would be a fool to work on a project that would turn quiet Ottawa-Vanier neighbourhoods into noisy heavy truck highways.”

NDP candidate Stéphanie Mercier didn’t respond by deadline Thursday.

Another big study is examining interprovincial travel in the region with a focus on bridges, although the NCC picked the most politically sensitive time, right in the middle of a federal election campaign, to release a request for proposals looking for a consultant to do an “integrated interprovincial crossings plan.”

As it turned out, the request for proposals itself was so contentious for the cities of Ottawa and Gatineau that the mayors this week asked the NCC to press pause on the contract competition.

Included in the “key elements” the NCC wanted addressed in the study were implementation of a new interprovincial bridge in the eastern sector and “identification” of a future bridge corridor in the western sector. The NCC also wanted the consultant to look into “the feasibility of a perimeter ring road encircling the urban areas of Gatineau and Ottawa.”

The notion of finding a location for not only a sixth bridge in the east, but also a seventh bridge in the west, combined with the idea of creating a ring road for the region, was enough to raise red flags by both cities.

The NCC withdrew the request for proposals on Wednesday, with agency spokesman Mario Tremblay indicating the tender would be reissued “in a matter of weeks” after further talks with the cities.

Mayor Jim Watson has railed against any idea of building a sixth interprovincial bridge between his city and Gatineau, favouring a long-shot proposal to build a $2-billion tunnel between Highway 417 and the mouth of the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge as a way to divert truck traffic from Ottawa’s core. The city assumes other levels of government would pay for a tunnel.

An environmental assessment for a tunnel hasn’t had enough funding to begin, and, even if a study was completed, there would be questions about who would pay for a tunnel, considering the city also requires billions in upper-government money to extend LRT to its suburbs.

Meanwhile, city councillors like Mathieu Fleury are trying to mitigate the dangers of transport trucks rumbling through central-east communities between Highway 417 in Ottawa and Highway 5 in Gatineau. The city will only consider narrowing King Edward Avenue when a new interprovincial bridge is built and the street is removed from the truck route network, along with an increase in public transit use between the two cities. The city doesn’t have the necessary $2 million-$4 million to implement decent traffic calming on King Edward as a short-term solution.

So much in the City of Ottawa rides on an interprovincial bridge being built, or not being built, by the federal government in co-operation with Ontario and Quebec.

On one hand, heavy-duty trucks can be diverted from the downtown to a bridge, but that would just move the traffic problem to other communities. On the other hand, trucks would continue rumbling through the downtown without a bridge, sustaining a precarious streetscape for pedestrians and cyclists.

You can see how it’s easier for some federal candidates to avoid facing this controversy head-on.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-cracks-of-the-federal-election-campaign
It may have been a non-issue during the campaign in Ottawa, but over here in Gatineau it's been in the news a lot, especially this week when there's been a lot of nasty mud-slinging between Mayor Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin and Gatineau Liberal MP/candidate Steven McKinnon.

McKinnon is very pissed that MPJ "conspired" (my words not his, but you get the picture) with Watson to get the NCC to put the brakes on this.

McKinnon has made a new bridge from his riding to Ottawa one of his main pledges and has worked against the tide for a number of years on this. At times it has appeared that he was the only one keeping the dream alive.

Maxime PJ OTOH is not dead-set against a new bridge but is quite to the idea, as he wants to focus on transit. Meaning - he knows there is only so much money to go around and wants it to go to transit in the Aylmer-Plateau area. My guess is that he wouldn't weep if the bridge project were to die.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 2:24 PM
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[B][SIZE="4"]Conservative candidate Joel Bernard said the prospect of an interprovincial bridge cutting into the community was “a non-starter” for him: “I would be a fool to work on a project that would turn quiet Ottawa-Vanier neighbourhoods into noisy heavy truck highways.”
I seriously question this concern. Trucks going to the 417 would use the Aviation Pkwy, which isn't in a "quiet Ottawa-Vanier neighbourhood" IMHO.

If the concern is trucks using the Sir George-Étienne Cartier Pkwy/Princess Ave/Sussex Dr to to go downtown, turning restrictions could be imposed to prevent that.
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  #1056  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
[B]How did a new interprovincial bridge fall through the cracks of the federal election campaign?

"Mayor Jim Watson has railed against any idea of building a sixth interprovincial bridge between his city and Gatineau, favouring a long-shot proposal to build a $2-billion tunnel between Highway 417 and the mouth of the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge as a way to divert truck traffic from Ottawa’s core."

[...]

"The city doesn’t have the necessary $2 million-$4 million to implement decent traffic calming on King Edward as a short-term solution."
Hmmm. Watson is so vindictive against inner city councilors that he won't even spare $2 to 4 million for traffic calming but he's pushing forward with his ridiculous $2 billion tunnel proposal.
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  #1057  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 3:28 PM
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There is a great deal of irony that 70 years ago the Greber Plan resulted in the removal of railway infrastructure in Ottawa-Gatineau, which led to the dismantling of blue-collar industry, which resulted in the almost 100% elimination of freight rail service which pushed truck traffic onto city streets.

After all of this, are we any further ahead after 70 years? In some respects, having freight moved on railway right of ways is better than moving freight on city streets.

Of course we don't want to discuss controversial subjects during an election campaign, but at some point, we need to do something to move people and goods around the city. Doing nothing is not sustainable.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Oct 18, 2019 at 8:36 PM.
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  #1058  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2019, 6:14 PM
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I think the only way this moves forward is to have the Federal Government fund 100% of the bridge, taking the decisions away from the provinces or cities. The Kettle Island bridge is accessed through Federal lands anyway (at least in Ontario). We need this bridge to link Old Gatineau (where half the population lives in that city) to east Ottawa, make no sense for people in Orleans travel 50kmthrough downtown for a bird's flight distance of 2km
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  #1059  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2019, 4:09 AM
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Trucks only make substantial noise when engine breaking and accelerating. There are probably about 500 people who's precious silence would be somewhat interrupted by the Aviation Parkway/Kettle Island plan. There is very little residential adjacent to the intersections at Ogilvie and Montreal Road. This whole situation is and always has been ridiculous. A few NIMBY's have been DRASTICALLY affecting the quality of life of over a million people because of a few decibels. A politician needs to gather the courage to get this thing done and soon.
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  #1060  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 11:52 AM
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Even if we look exclusively at the people affected by the truck traffic, the few hundred along the Monté Paiement (who don't seem to complain, maybe because they are completely unaware) and Aviation corridor pale in comparison to the thousands who live along King Edward and Rideau. The irony is, both locations are in the same provincial and federal riding. The move of the truck traffic would be beneficial to a high proportion of voters and detrimental to a very low proportion of non-voters.

The only legitimate complaint comes from the Montfort Hospital, but I'm sure an agreement could be reached.
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