Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed - Page 183

s211 · #**3641** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 5:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by connect2source

Yeah Warren, my point was to illustrate that calibre of stuff done here ( Switzerland ) the Gotthard is 57km long, goes under the Alps!!! You simply underscored my point being the minuscule size of the Massey in comparison and how we can't even get the thing built.

Are you crazy? Cutting through Mother Gaia? How 20th century of you.

Dengler Avenue · #**3642** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

We could learn a lot from Europe's tunnels.

Quote:

Originally Posted by connect2source

Absolutely, I feel they've got so much of it right, we could model many of our projects after theirs, they're decades ahead.

Keep in mind, though, that European countries have ridiculously high tax rates. That’s why they’re able to pull off those fancies structures.

cornholio · #**3643** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 7:19 PM**

As someone who lives in Europe now and have decided there is virtually zero chance of returning to Vancouver it's nice to see someone noticing the issues with Vancouver/BC/Canada. Originally it was supposed to be temporary for me but it has become permanent mainly because of the lack of infrustrucureue and the trends in Vancouver (rapid growth and a inability to build anything).

The amount of metros, highways, tunnels, by passes, bridges, railway upgrades, etc that have been built in this city is incredible and results in a high quality of life and mobility. And more is being built and planned all the time. This is a city that grows only some 5000 people a year and is not much smaller then Vancouver. And no taxes are pretty much equal, any difference is because of social services and state pension plans.

Vancouver is screwed, 30 to 40 thousands people per year added, inadequate infrastructure, and a inability to build anything worth while. Virtually nothing has been done in decades. A few bridges, minor road upgrades, some short sky train lines. It's nothing. It's a joke. The region added 1.5 million people in the last what 25 years? And nothing will change and this tunnel is just another example, if it ever gets built. And to think there was a chance of connecting the Sunshine coast where I lived last to the region lol Not in our life times.

I hope more people realize the dire situation and fight back.

Klazu · #**3644** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 7:48 PM**

It makes no sense for one of the lanes to be bus-only. It better be a HOV lane. Also, it makes no sense to replace only the tunnel and nothing else.

CanSpice · #**3645** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 7:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

You cant move dangerous goods via the tunnel. The way the trucking industry works many trucks have some dangerous goods when the shipments are mixed. Many trucks will like today not be able to use the tunnel and will have to use the Alex Fraser bridge. This is a major flaw of the tunnel.

This was previously discussed, only 1.9% of trucks were transporting dangerous goods.

misher · #**3646** Posted **Oct 9, 2019, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio

As someone who lives in Europe now and have decided there is virtually zero chance of returning to Vancouver it's nice to see someone noticing the issues with Vancouver/BC/Canada. Originally it was supposed to be temporary for me but it has become permanent mainly because of the lack of infrustrucureue and the trends in Vancouver (rapid growth and a inability to build anything).

The amount of metros, highways, tunnels, by passes, bridges, railway upgrades, etc that have been built in this city is incredible and results in a high quality of life and mobility. And more is being built and planned all the time. This is a city that grows only some 5000 people a year and is not much smaller then Vancouver. And no taxes are pretty much equal, any difference is because of social services and state pension plans.

Vancouver is screwed, 30 to 40 thousands people per year added, inadequate infrastructure, and a inability to build anything worth while. Virtually nothing has been done in decades. A few bridges, minor road upgrades, some short sky train lines. It's nothing. It's a joke. The region added 1.5 million people in the last what 25 years? And nothing will change and this tunnel is just another example, if it ever gets built. And to think there was a chance of connecting the Sunshine coast where I lived last to the region lol Not in our life times.

I hope more people realize the dire situation and fight back.

Infrastructure development in BC and Canada as a whole is a bit of a joke. Compared to America's infrastructure system which I would say is amazing, Canada has problems getting stuff built and has problems keeping costs down. Americans get things built quickly for less pure and simple. I assume they pay their workers significantly less and don't have to deal with the same stress from environmental reviews, indigenous consultation, etc. The indigenous do have rights but also they are handicapping our nation and we can't just be politically correct all the time if we want to prosper. Plus environmental reviews just take too damn long!

Isn't it sad that its faster to go south from Vancouver and across America then back up to Toronto rather than across Canada? Its ridiculous that as a nation we don't have one good highway connecting us.

connect2source · #**3647** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 3:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Keep in mind, though, that European countries have ridiculously high tax rates. That’s why they’re able to pull off those fancies structures.

No true, I'm citing Switzerland where the top tax rate is about 40%, it's not a high-tax country, it's a tax haven for the most part and has some of the lowest tax rates in Western Europe.

Migrant_Coconut · #**3648** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 5:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by misher

Infrastructure development in BC and Canada as a whole is a bit of a joke. Compared to America's infrastructure system which I would say is amazing, Canada has problems getting stuff built and has problems keeping costs down. Americans get things built quickly for less pure and simple!

I'll just leave this here. There's some things where Americans can be and are envious of Canada; every other transit comments section will have one New Yorker openly jealous of Toronto or something like that. Grass is greener on the other side?

paulsparrow · #**3649** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 5:30 PM**

The good thing is nothing is really going to be done for the next 2-3 years. So in 2 years time the NDP will be removed from power and the Liberals will be able to take over and continue with the original plan of a bridge.

Since most of the pre-work has already been done and some of the physical work had already started we could probably build a bridge under the Liberals faster than waiting for the NDP to complete a tunnel.

cairnstone · #**3650** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 5:36 PM**

All that was done is preload and some design.

Migrant_Coconut · #**3651** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 6:31 PM**

Much as I'd like a Massey Bridge, I'd like a Wilkinson-free government even more.

M00dy · #**3652** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 11:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairnstone

All that was done is preload and some design.

Preload, design to go out to tender on the RFQ/RFP, a full RFQ process, selection of a shortlist, RFP submittals, BC Hydro designing and start of construction to move their hydro lines out of the tunnel, test piling program....

Did I miss anything?

cairnstone · #**3653** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by M00dy

Preload, design to go out to tender on the RFQ/RFP, a full RFQ process, selection of a shortlist, RFP submittals, BC Hydro designing and start of construction to move their hydro lines out of the tunnel, test piling program....

Did I miss anything?

These are all very minor details. They would have only had basic design and engineering done until they got back data from the test pile. That data would be sent to the proponents for design build. They hydro design and preload are all costs that are there regardless of what gets built.

Design does not start until the proponent is awarded a PO. The Liberals are making a few million spent on a project into a half built bridge being cancelled.

We forget that the Liberals did that exact same thing when it comes to the Port Mann. The NDP did a half life upgrade on the bridge and 7 years later the liberals tore it down so they could build a super bridge.

WarrenC12 · #**3654** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 2:58 PM**

Saw this on twitter. It sure paints the picture.

Although I'll note it's missing the Canada Line bridge for some reason. Should be +2 lanes in 2009 for transit:

Metro-One · #**3655** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 3:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Saw this on twitter. It sure paints the picture.

Although I'll note it's missing the Canada Line bridge for some reason. Should be +2 lanes in 2009 for transit:

Its almost as if road crossings require more lanes...

And why are the HOV / Bus lanes on the Port Mann not counted as transit?

Also, all those bridges have transit running on them...

Also seems like quite the error to not include the Canada Line.

Also the new Pattullo is not adding lanes.

officedweller · #**3656** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 7:38 PM**

That diagram is a bit disingenuous and all it does is tally up river crossings.

Roads and highways are infrastructure as are the elevated SkyTrain guideways and SkyTrain tunnels.

whatnext · #**3657** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

That diagram is a bit disingenuous and all it does is tally up river crossings.

Roads and highways are infrastructure as are the elevated SkyTrain guideways and SkyTrain tunnels.

Yeah, and why does it call Port Mann a refurb? It was a brand new bridge.

officedweller · #**3658** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 8:58 PM**

That was the addition of the 7th lane to the old bridge - the eastbound HOV lane.
The new bridge is Port Mann 2.

WarrenC12 · #**3659** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 9:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

That diagram is a bit disingenuous and all it does is tally up river crossings.

Roads and highways are infrastructure as are the elevated SkyTrain guideways and SkyTrain tunnels.

It's just meant to look at major projects. The river crossings are the bottlenecks of our region, obviously. It was in response to the Massey Tunnel report, and the recent articles on how busy the new PMB is.

fredinno · #**3660** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 11:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Saw this on twitter. It sure paints the picture.

Although I'll note it's missing the Canada Line bridge for some reason. Should be +2 lanes in 2009 for transit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's just meant to look at major projects. The river crossings are the bottlenecks of our region, obviously. It was in response to the Massey Tunnel report, and the recent articles on how busy the new PMB is.

That image is trash you'd see made by Zweisystem or someone of the sort.

1. Roads require far more lanes than trains per pphpd. So much so, you really don't need more than 6 Skytrain Lanes across the Fraser if you want to connect the entire region. 2 on the Skybridge, 2 near the Golden Ears, and 2 near the GMT.
2. Why is there a separate category for 'Trains' over 'Transit'? Does that mean Cargo Trains?
3. It implies the only important transportation projects are bridges over the Fraser (South Fraser at that, hence why no Canada Line Bridge). Does the SFPR not count as a major transportation project? The Mary Hill Bypass? Upper Levels? Canada Line?
4. It doesn't include HOV as 'Transit Lanes' - not even half.
5. The New Pautullo adds 0 new lanes. It only makes the existing ones wider for safety (and increase the speed limit)