Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Time will tell and we all hope for a reliable system, but the whole concept of removing all but local buses out of downtown all at once is highly unusual. We built a minimal train system in Phase 1, and this change shocks the whole transit system and its users.

Most cities who implement rail rapid transit only impact the portions of cities that directly benefit. For example, when the first C-Train line was built in Calgary, they only shut down buses to the southern part of city and even then, more local bus routes on the south side continue to run to this day. When the Yonge line opened in 1954, they shut down the Yonge streetcar. Our C-Line mostly serves the east end, but we decided to shut down bus service throughout the entire city. It is clear that it will be a while before all the kinks are worked out of the train line and this may be more than a few weeks or even months. Meanwhile, we are impacting the whole city because we didn't take a more conservative approach to this implementation.

This was also one of the rationale for the original N-S line. We were to build the line only impacting one section of city so we could learn from bringing rail into service without impacting everybody. We would then learn how to implement the more important east-west line with fewer problems.

I hope we can work through the bugs quickly but we have known about the door problems for months. Automatic doors are not new technology and should be able to bounce open with any obstruction without breaking.

It is interesting that one of the Connexion buses bound for Tunney's Pasture this morning, when informed of the huge backlog of passengers, continued into downtown, after picking up as many passengers as possible at Tunney's. A similar break down in the afternoon peak period will be even more difficult to deal with.

[J.OT13]

Scrimgeour on CBC Ottawa Morning today. He seems *a little more honest (accent on "a little") about the situation. He's saying 13 trains are available now, not that they are ready for "prime-time" if/when needed. Seems to be suggesting reliability issues. He also points to some improvements done and planned for this week on certain bus routes.

https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radio/1-100-ottawa-morning

[zzptichka]

Has anyone heard anything specific from OC Transpo about the door problem? When will Alstom fix this? Asking people not to hold doors is not a solution.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is interesting that one of the Connexion buses bound for Tunney's Pasture this morning, when informed of the huge backlog of passengers, continued into downtown, after picking up as many passengers as possible at Tunney's. A similar break down in the afternoon peak period will be even more difficult to deal with.

Yeah, we saw quite a few buses on Slater this morning during the service disruption. Almost looked like the old system was fully operational.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yeah, we saw quite a few buses on Slater this morning during the service disruption. Almost looked like the old system was fully operational.

Why haven't we converted those bus lanes into segregated bike lanes by now? Seriously, the city seems in an awful hurry to eliminate the bus priorities before they know that the trains are functioning reliably.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why haven't we converted those bus lanes into segregated bike lanes by now? Seriously, the city seems in an awful hurry to eliminate the bus priorities before they know that the trains are functioning reliably.

Pretty sure STO going to be using some of those bus lanes in a few months.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Pretty sure STO going to be using some of those bus lanes in a few months.

That is the plan as I understand it.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Parking in Jean-Guy (or Joao)'s driveway is a possibility and will probably cost 75-100 a month.

Driveway spots in VH close to the government buildings (as in less than a 10-minute walk) are not easy to find and most people I know who have one are more like 15-20 minutes away.

IMO you really have to absolutely fucking hate transit or have no other choice if you are willing to fight traffic in your car and then walk that distance in the freezing cold, rain, snow, 45-degree humidex, clean the snow or ice off your car... a whole bunch of days of the year...

It is ridiculous. I rent out my parking spot about 7-10 minutes' walk from Terraces for $150 and when I put up the ad, I was inundated with dozens of responses within a few hours. I raised it to $175 later and it only somewhat tempered the demand. This despite it being twice the cost of an STO bus pass and Terraces being served by almost every bus line in Gatineau with headways under 5 minutes in every direction.

I don't understand it. But I'm happy for the bit of extra budget padding.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Why haven't we converted those bus lanes into segregated bike lanes by now? Seriously, the city seems in an awful hurry to eliminate the bus priorities before they know that the trains are functioning reliably.

I've been using them as such. It's actually quite enjoyable to be able to ride 2-3 abreast with manoeuvring space in a 4m lane instead of the scanty 1.2m-and-not-a-cm-more cycling infrastructure which is so often the norm. That said, although it definitely could have been done a lot better, having safe infrastructure in the new Albert and Slater will be a whole lot better than nothing. I just wish we wouldn't always treat the minimum safe bike lane size as a maximum too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It is ridiculous. I rent out my parking spot about 7-10 minutes' walk from Terraces for $150 and when I put up the ad, I was inundated with dozens of responses within a few hours. I raised it to $175 later and it only somewhat tempered the demand. This despite it being twice the cost of an STO bus pass and Terraces being served by almost every bus line in Gatineau with headways under 5 minutes in every direction.

I don't understand it. But I'm happy for the bit of extra budget padding.

I am pro-transit but am not an extremist. I fully understand why someone who lives in Barrhaven and works in a Kanata office park with free parking right outside the door would take their car to work.

Vieux-Hull used to be a fairly easy cheap parking area, though you've always had to pay at least a bit since the federal towers were built in the 70s.

Nowadays it's becoming more and more like central Ottawa but some people still seem to think it's like downtown Rimouski or something.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It is ridiculous. I rent out my parking spot about 7-10 minutes' walk from Terraces for $150 and when I put up the ad, I was inundated with dozens of responses within a few hours. I raised it to $175 later and it only somewhat tempered the demand. This despite it being twice the cost of an STO bus pass and Terraces being served by almost every bus line in Gatineau with headways under 5 minutes in every direction.

I don't understand it. But I'm happy for the bit of extra budget padding.

Why you didn't ask for $200 is beyond me.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

You think 200 people on each O-Train are headed to Gatineau?

Maybe not that high. But if we're talking about servicing Gatineau, the issue is the number of riders from the west and south that want to go to Gatineau. Because right now those riders are adding to the peak direction flow on the Confederation Line going east into the core. Extending the Trillium Line into Gatineau, takes them off the Confederation Line.

As for concerns about Les Gatinois overwhelming Bayview, this really depends on how the service is designed and how much capacity there is on the Confederation Line into Bayview. If it's a double transfer for a Gatineau resident to get downtown Ottawa (Tache and Bayview), most would probably stay on the STO LRT till Rideau and transfer there. And even if it were a single transfer with more Gatineau residents transferring at Bayview, it ultimately comes down capacity flowing through. More trains would solve a lot of problems.

[Truenorth00]

Are frequencies being reduced mid-day? It doesn't seem like it to me. Another indicator that the service is not sized for peak. I think they probably need close to 20 trains running at peak, with 13 sufficient for mid-day.

Also, when are they running singles? I haven't ridden the system yet, at a time at which they run singles.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Are frequencies being reduced mid-day? It doesn't seem like it to me. Another indicator that the service is not sized for peak. I think they probably need close to 20 trains running at peak, with 13 sufficient for mid-day.

Also, when are they running singles? I haven't ridden the system yet, at a time at which they run singles.

We won't have 20 trains anytime soon. It seems that the trains are not reliable enough to run more than 13 at a time. They were never able to sustain service with 15 trains during testing, even though it was a condition of substantial completion.

Right now, we have 17 trains available without any back ups, and two trains that are partially assembled.

We are not running single trains at any hour or any day. The coupling - uncoupling process was not reliable enough, which was leading to more trains being taken out of service.

I expect that political pressure was applied so that substantial completion was accomplished in August for a September start of service. It was not acceptable to further delay opening. We were willing to compromise on what constituted substantial completion to meet the deadlines.

[CityTech]

If they started throwing some Phase 2 trains on the tracks we could probably hit 20 trains by next summer.

[jchilds72]

Are there any consequences for someone who causes a disruption (through negligence or malice) of service like there was today?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I think that's exactly what they do.

But if someone shoves them back open with force it can put the doors out of alignment.

That makes total sense. I can totally see someone getting mad that the door is closing before they can get off and giving it a big, angry shove.

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Riders often wait until the train arrives at their station stop rather than moving towards the doors before the train arrives at the station.

That should get better with time. People are used to buses where they can sit in their seat until the bus comes to a complete stop and then yelling out will cause the driver to wait until you can make your way to the door. On a train, this isn't possible (or desirable) and the right thing to do is start making your way towards the door a stop before you need to get off.

[orleans_man]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We won't have 20 trains anytime soon. It seems that the trains are not reliable enough to run more than 13 at a time. They were never able to sustain service with 15 trains during testing, even though it was a condition of substantial completion.
...
I expect that political pressure was applied so that substantial completion was accomplished in August for a September start of service. It was not acceptable to further delay opening. We were willing to compromise on what constituted substantial completion to meet the deadlines.

Agreed. This does seem to be the case. I think if OC Transpo felt they could get 15 out on the tracks, then they would. I can't see any practical reason why they wouldn't add them. I don't buy the story that 13 is now "good" enough to meet the needs because ridership is less lower than expected. The city compromised to deliver the LRT.

I assume that they are just not there yet from a reliability point-of-view. My guess is come December or early in the new year, we will see some additional capacity. But that's just a guess.

[Kitchissippi]

Regarding putting more trains on the track, is it that the spare trains are not reliable, or is it the Communications-based train control (CBTC) system that is not reliable enough to run more trains? The latter could be more trouble than the other.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by jchilds72

Are there any consequences for someone who causes a disruption (through negligence or malice) of service like there was today?

Somebody tweeted who was on the train in question and said that this happened when passengers were trying to exit the train. Other standing passengers were trying allow them to pass, which held the door open. There was no 'angry shove' or malice involved according to that report.

Others have commented that the dwell time at UOttawa station is not long enough to allow passengers to exit and that doors closed on exiting passengers, in some cases trapping them inside. This requires a timing adjustment.