Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Every metro system has idiots trying to hold the doors open. Most of them don't cause door breakages.

I think the low floor design was a terrible mistake. Whatever miniscule amount of money they saved in concrete was not worth it.

The vehicles are the same width as the Docklands Light Rail or the Copenhagen Metro, which offer noticeably more space.

I think we still need some more time to evaluate with full capacity/working vehicles and get people used to the system... at the same time the decision to go with LRT vs light metro does seem like a mistake considering how the system was built.
http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/media/pdf/Section6_2.5MB.pdf

"Maximum capacity in the core" was "Good" for light metro vs "Fair" for LRT and "Poor" for Driver Operation. "LRT was rated higher because of its "Ability to build a nonsegregated system in low density areas," "Reduced complexity of driver operation in the suburbs" and integration with other LRT corridors.

However, we are building the entire system grade-separated, requiring multiple transfers for Line 2, and not using automation.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I thought the idea was that most of the Hull service would be provided by STO. That is why STO is supposed to funnel all their service to Lyon, so there will be frequent service in one place.

Unfortunately, STO hasn't implemented their new downtown Ottawa route network yet.

That doesn't work, though, because of the fare issue. Presto is not accepted on STO for single ride fares, so occasional OC Transpo riders cannot use STO.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I thought the idea was that most of the Hull service would be provided by STO. That is why STO is supposed to funnel all their service to Lyon, so there will be frequent service in one place.

Unfortunately, STO hasn't implemented their new downtown Ottawa route network yet.

Going to Gatineau from Ottawa has never been a problem. A quick walk to Wellington and transfer to STO. Done.

Monthly pass holders can board any STO bus to come back to Ottawa. Years ago that's what I did. But now as an occasional user, it's just inconvenient. If the plan is for STO to pick up the slack, they really should have worked on improving fare system integration. (Instead of just assuming everyone is a peak hour commuter with a monthly pass.)

Being told to walk 15+ minutes is kinda pointless. If it's nice enough to walk that long, I'd have ridden my bike into work anyways. (Basically I take transit when the weather really 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵.)

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by CityTech

That doesn't work, though, because of the fare issue. Presto is not accepted on STO for single ride fares, so occasional OC Transpo riders cannot use STO.

It's a problem, but it's a solvable problem. STO ticket machines at Lyon, Place du Portage and the Museum of History would probably address it for most folks.

[daud]

From Reddit:

Someone forced the train doors open again
OC Transpo

I was at the door in which it happened at uOttawa station. There were too many people trying to get out, and the next thing you know the "doors closing" chime goes on with still 8-10 people trying to run off. And this one guy forces the door open as it closed on him.

This is a major engineering oversight in the design of these doors. People will force them open if they start to close on them. Having this shut down an entire direction on the rail system is a big issue.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/dezdtz/someone_forced_the_train_doors_open_again/

These doors should bounce back open when they hit resistance, wait 15 seconds then try to shut again.

man... either fix the way these doors work or increase frequency so people can enter and exit trains without breaking down the whole line.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by daud

These doors should bounce back open when they hit resistance

I think that's exactly what they do.

But if someone shoves them back open with force it can put the doors out of alignment.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It's a problem, but it's a solvable problem. STO ticket machines at Lyon, Place du Portage and the Museum of History would probably address it for most folks.

Or just have the system accept tapping with a debit/credit card.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I haven't seen any origin/destination studies for the Trillium Line, but I am somewhat doubtful that around 20-25 percent of Trillium passengers are headed to Quebec. Unless there were some reason why Quebec-working employees are more likely to live along the Trillium Line, then there would be massively more people piling onto Quebec bound buses throughout the system during the morning rush hour, which we do not see. But even if that were the case, a single bus with 10-15 minute service would pretty easily absorb that demand.

It is not just the riders on the Trillium line that would transfer at Bayview to go to Gatineau, but rather riders from the eastbound and westbound Confederation Line. The transfers from the eastbound line would leave some room for the eastbound riders transferring from the Trillium line.

Bayview station itself would not be over capacity with the transfers, so the question is if the trains themselves would be over capacity between Bayview and Downtown. Once the Trinity development is completed there should be more riders boarding and alighting at Bayview. This may increase space eastbound or increase the capacity problems.

Increasing the frequency of train service is the only way that the crowded conditions on the Confederation Line can be resolved in the short term. Short turning trains will be a problem when Stage 2 is complete because of trying to balance the frequencies headed to Baseline with those to Moodie. In the mid term either another module will have to be purchased for each of the cars. After that the rolling stock may have to be replaced with wider cars. This would involve a shutdown due to construction modifying the station platforms or the track alignment.

No matter where any line from Gatineau joins the Confederation Line unless it is at Parliament there will be additional riders dumped onto the Confederation line unless the line is a complete closed loop. The problem with that is having two lines is that there needs to be more separation than proposed by various posters on this site because the goal should also be to expand the service area. This means there will still have to be some interchange stations which will still result in some riders transferring to the Confederation line.

[GoTrans]

Riders are often the problem with why we appear to be over capacity already.

Riders do not distribute themselves along the platform so that all doors are accessed. From my observations they tend to congregate at the bottom of station stairs or escalators.

Riders don't move into to the cars so they block the entrances for both boarding and exiting passengers. OC Transit should put staff on the trains to enforce this. The complaints about grab bars and/or straps are quite legitimate and need to addressed by OC Transpo.

Riders often wait until the train arrives at their station stop rather than moving towards the doors before the train arrives at the station.

Bicycles should be banned from the trains during peak hours leaving more room for passengers, especially those in wheel chairs.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

The station, and train, was not crushed. Not packed. Not loaded. Literally oceans of room, all persons seated individually. This tells me that off peak, we could easily do with trains every 6 to 8 minutes. I thought we were supposed to take trains off-line when not needed by load. Granted, early days, and work out the kinks and all, but come on. If Manconi is trotting out the decreased load for only needing 13 trains at peak, - so as to save money - , well, then why is he not reducing trains at off-peak when not needed ?
(Let alone getting those other 2 trains on-line at on-peak, when desperately needed. He should have said so - up front.....like = Yes We Will Get Them On-Line ASAP and Fix This Properly =. ie: take hold of the bullhorn and state positively that it will be done. Nope - he weaseled and wimped.)

Agreed. They don't want to add trains at rush because "empty trains" are not efficient!? They are more than 50% empty off peak. Only during the climate strike were thy packed off peak as well (and frequency should be increased in anticipation for such demonstrations). Adding one or two trains at rush would still result in very busy trains. As you say, they can remove off peak trains and place them on peak if cost is there biggest concern.

Considering they decided in the last year to keep double trains on the weekends, even if they are not necessary, tells us something about efficiency, of lack thereof. Contract said singles on the weekend, then stick to it, regardless of coupling problems (Alstom and RTM should be forced to fix that) so that we can get extra service at rush hour.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Agreed. They don't want to add trains at rush because "empty trains" are not efficient!? They are more than 50% empty off peak. Only during the climate strike were thy packed off peak as well (and frequency should be increased in anticipation for such demonstrations). Adding one or two trains at rush would still result in very busy trains. As you say, they can remove off peak trains and place them on peak if cost is there biggest concern.

Considering they decided in the last year to keep double trains on the weekends, even if they are not necessary, tells us something about efficiency, of lack thereof. Contract said singles on the weekend, then stick to it, regardless of coupling problems (Alstom and RTM should be forced to fix that) so that we can get extra service at rush hour.

We have spares we can use in rush hour. The 2 extra trains would do wonders. Reducing off peak frequency is an entirely different topic and one I don't think we should entertain. You're thinking like Manconi, if it's not crush loaded it's not full. We should be thinking of transit as convenient, and the off peak frequency is quite convenient even if it means emptier trains. We all know that any "savings" wouldn't be passed back into the system, it would just be cut from OC Transpos budget to extend property tax breaks.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Riders are often the problem with why we appear to be over capacity already.

Riders do not distribute themselves along the platform so that all doors are accessed. From my observations they tend to congregate at the bottom of station stairs or escalators.

Riders don't move into to the cars so they block the entrances for both boarding and exiting passengers. OC Transit should put staff on the trains to enforce this. The complaints about grab bars and/or straps are quite legitimate and need to addressed by OC Transpo.

Riders often wait until the train arrives at their station stop rather than moving towards the doors before the train arrives at the station.

Bicycles should be banned from the trains during peak hours leaving more room for passengers, especially those in wheel chairs.

I do agree partially. When I get on the platform, I immediately move to the emptiest spot. Blair is quite lopsided, with everyone heading towards the front half of the train. It's hard to head towards the doors before the train arrives however, when the door seem randomly placed (though they are not, placement is due to low-floor design).

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Alstom_Citadis_Spirit

vs Azure:


https://globalnews.ca/news/4654603/17-new-azur-trains-on-the-way-for-montreals-metro/

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

We have spares we can use in rush hour. The 2 extra trains would do wonders. Reducing off peak frequency is an entirely different topic and one I don't think we should entertain. You're thinking like Manconi, if it's not crush loaded it's not full. We should be thinking of transit as convenient, and the off peak frequency is quite convenient even if it means emptier trains. We all know that any "savings" wouldn't be passed back into the system, it would just be cut from OC Transpos budget to extend property tax breaks.

Using their excuse against them. If it's about efficiency, remove one train off peak, which might make the wait on extra minute, in order to add a train at rush-hour. And going with doubles on the weekend must have had a huge impact to the budget, but we're not hearing about it. The current situation contradicts Manconi's argument.

Of course if I were the OC Transpo boss, I would maintain off-peak frequency of 5 minutes and just add the extra two trains at rush-hour that we were suppose to get in the first place. If we want to increase ridership, this is needed. Other cities who run at crush loads like this do so because they have no choice. We do have a choice. We have 2+ trains waiting in the yard.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I haven't seen any origin/destination studies for the Trillium Line, but I am somewhat doubtful that around 20-25 percent of Trillium passengers are headed to Quebec.

You can't tell what the demand for a bridge is by counting the number of people swimming across the creek.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Is it though? I heard that parking passes at the Terrasses de la Chaudière cost around 200$ a month.

What about parking in Jean-Guy's extra driveway spot?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My comment about Bayview reflects the reality that we can only realistically afford one interprovincial link when each one will cost several hundred million. There seems to be the assumption that we will magically have crossings at POW, Portage and the Interprovincial bridges. That may come some day but we are talking about several decades from today. We have to prioritize a crossing and it needs to be at the most useful location which is at Portage.

Prioritize a crossing, sure.

But take one permanently off the planning table? Hell no.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Using their excuse against them. If it's about efficiency, remove one train off peak, which might make the wait on extra minute, in order to add a train at rush-hour. And going with doubles on the weekend must have had a huge impact to the budget, but we're not hearing about it. The current situation contradicts Manconi's argument.

Of course if I were the OC Transpo boss, I would maintain off-peak frequency of 5 minutes and just add the extra two trains at rush-hour that we were suppose to get in the first place. If we want to increase ridership, this is needed. Other cities who run at crush loads like this do so because they have no choice. We do have a choice. We have 2+ trains waiting in the yard.

I'm guessing the real answer is that they haven't fully worked out all the bugaboos in running 15 trains at a time, and since 13 isn't crush loaded we're getting this bizarre messaging from Manconi

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'm guessing the real answer is that they haven't fully worked out all the bugaboos in running 15 trains at a time, and since 13 isn't crush loaded we're getting this bizarre messaging from Manconi

That's likely the real issue here. Deflecting the real reason why we can't have a tolerable capacity.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I'm guessing the real answer is that they haven't fully worked out all the bugaboos in running 15 trains at a time, and since 13 isn't crush loaded we're getting this bizarre messaging from Manconi

I agree. I don't think we are getting the whole story of why 15 trains aren't being used. I also think they don't want to tell us. It may not be an answer that the public wants to hear.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Is it though? I heard that parking passes at the Terrasses de la Chaudière cost around 200$ a month.

The officially designated garages at Portage and Terrasses are about 200 a month or more. Plus they have pretty long waiting lists.

A guy named Marc Dubé owns a bunch of surface lots in Vieux-Hull and he charges around 125-150 a month.

Parking in Jean-Guy (or Joao)'s driveway is a possibility and will probably cost 75-100 a month.

Driveway spots in VH close to the government buildings (as in less than a 10-minute walk) are not easy to find and most people I know who have one are more like 15-20 minutes away.

IMO you really have to absolutely 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 hate transit or have no other choice if you are willing to fight traffic in your car and then walk that distance in the freezing cold, rain, snow, 45-degree humidex, clean the snow or ice off your car... a whole bunch of days of the year...