Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[PHrenetic]

Good Day. (not)

OK, I finally rode the rail between St.Laurent and Blair and back. Off Rush (10:15). A pleasant trip. BUT.....

The station, and train, was not crushed. Not packed. Not loaded. Literally oceans of room, all persons seated individually. This tells me that off peak, we could easily do with trains every 6 to 8 minutes. I thought we were supposed to take trains off-line when not needed by load. Granted, early days, and work out the kinks and all, but come on. If Manconi is trotting out the decreased load for only needing 13 trains at peak, - so as to save money - , well, then why is he not reducing trains at off-peak when not needed ?
(Let alone getting those other 2 trains on-line at on-peak, when desperately needed. He should have said so - up front.....like = Yes We Will Get Them On-Line ASAP and Fix This Properly =. ie: take hold of the bullhorn and state positively that it will be done. Nope - he weaseled and wimped.)

St.Laurent needs repairs to the roof.
Since my last observation two weeks ago (wherein I commented on the desirability of acoustic ceiling tiles), they have had (!) to install ceiling drainage pans (!!) at the structural joints between sections of tunnel. WOW ! They drain into the centerline (!) between the east and west rails. A shower, anyone ?!
Nope - they blew it trying to cheap out here, and this will be a definite eyesore for some time, until they get to biting the sour grape and just do it right. Dig it up and DO IT.
One good note - they seem to be getting around to installing direction signage (which way am I going) in the center line fencing between the east and west rails, between the signs stating which this station is.
And they unlocked those doors to the mall.

The tracks..... well, not bad - some superelevation in the curves, but..... the train seemed to slow (considerably) for each and every curve (should not be necessary any longer at this point of break-in of the service), and seemed to grab at the rails as it curved (peculiar). And, in the stretch run between Cyrville and Blair, there is a kink in the straight line. WTF? Why a kink ? in a straight line ? Dear OC - please do not tell me it's because of culverts or substructures or.....(or even for thermal expansion - that is best handled in a totally different method - such as a slip-joint, like at the Hurdman Rideau bridge ends). It should be straight, to allow max speed. The train slowed for it. WOW !
And the line signal light arriving eastbound before the switchset into Blair station is completely hidden from view (I was seated in the high seat just behind the driver) by the catenary support poles on the south side until the train is well up to and upon it. Somewhat strange to me.

Blair needs more and better staircases. It's not as bad as Tunney's for a terminus (center platform), but the comment that we have a post Stage 2 station design acting as a terminus holds here as well. The stair is narrow, twisty, and even at low load, crowded. And at one far end of the platform. Not Good! Esp. for having to go up =and= down to get about. And a directional sign at the top of the stair and elevator for the platform would speed up that half-step-stall to check which way north to the mall or to the south.

From the reports, I dread and fear trying it at Rush. But I have to in order to advise a mobility-impaired friend as to the feasibility of taking it at rush. She already tried it off-peak, and was OK fine, but.....rush is something else even at best.

Overall, B+, off-rush.
Picky? yes. But after all the promises, and all the excuses, I think we all have the right to be picky at this point.

And as for the comment about NOT swapping platforms at Tunney's if you miss the train due to crowding - ABSOLUTELY right. Do that and you will never get aboard any train. Seems that at rush, pick the platform that just left, rather than the -next- platform; you'll probably end up getting aboard and out faster.

My 2 cents.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JM1

Has Manconi responded about the platform issue? The platforms just aren’t wide enough. At Parliament this morning people were held up exiting the train. That will only get worse with crush loading.

Also, people need to stand on the right and walk on the left on the escalators. That might help traffic flow a bit.

They need to fix the signs in the downtown station that point people to the contra-flow up escalators.

Platform widths aren't an issue in the core. Since traffic is inbound in the heavier morning peak, there's no crowding on the platform in the core. Crowding in the morning peak is occurring at the terminus and transfer stations. There's an easy solution. Increasing frequencies. Reduce the headways to 3 mins and overcrowding ameliorates substantially. Heck, I wish they could get to 2.5 or 2 mins.

[daud]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Platform widths aren't an issue in the core. Since traffic is inbound in the heavier morning peak, there's no crowding on the platform in the core. Crowding in the morning peak is occurring at the terminus and transfer stations. There's an easy solution. Increasing frequencies. Reduce the headways to 3 mins and overcrowding ameliorates substantially. Heck, I wish they could get to 2.5 or 2 mins.

increased frequencies would help for sure but those platforms are tight. My wife was a daily subway rider on the TTC and its the first thing she noted was the how skinny those platforms were-almost dangerously so with crowds at rush hour. Some stations seem a bit more spacious than others but honestly, I really did not expect to see this type of capacity so quickly.

I wonder if the POW bridge reversal has more to do with the realization that Line 1 would not support additional Gatineau transit riders more than their claim that bayview station itself can't support them. When they made that claim the first thought that comes to mind is Atocha in Madrid and I'm like WTF do you mean we can't manage a hub of 3 lines?? Just bad planning...

Still, I love the LRT overall and hope increased frequency alleviates the current issues.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Did anyone have a chance to check out the McKenzie Bridge Today? Did it seem different without the volume of buses?

Here was a Twitter post from Carol Anne Meehan at 12pm.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by daud

I wonder if the POW bridge reversal has more to do with the realization that Line 1 would not support additional Gatineau transit riders more than their claim that bayview station itself can't support them. When they made that claim the first thought that comes to mind is Atocha in Madrid and I'm like WTF do you mean we can't manage a hub of 3 lines?? Just bad planning...l.

This is the correct interpretation of that statement. It's not that they couldn't redesign Bayview as a transfer station for STO, it's that Line 1 would not have the capacity to handle all the Gatineau transfers (or at least a substantial amount of trains would need to be added and it would reach maximum capacity much sooner than planned).

[lrt's friend]

When we talk about the expense of running empty trains, that is the perfect reason for not having extra capacity for Gatineau passengers needing to travel from Bayview to downtown only. On the rest of the line, the trains will be running under capacity. The original studies for the Confederation Line specifically excluded passengers from Gatineau when determining the capacity and longevity of the line. It makes much more sense to run STO trains into downtown Ottawa separately so that the bulk of riders can walk to their destination.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by daud

increased frequencies would help for sure but those platforms are tight. My wife was a daily subway rider on the TTC and its the first thing she noted was the how skinny those platforms were-almost dangerously so with crowds at rush hour. Some stations seem a bit more spacious than others but honestly, I really did not expect to see this type of capacity so quickly.

I wonder if the POW bridge reversal has more to do with the realization that Line 1 would not support additional Gatineau transit riders more than their claim that bayview station itself can't support them. When they made that claim the first thought that comes to mind is Atocha in Madrid and I'm like WTF do you mean we can't manage a hub of 3 lines?? Just bad planning...

Still, I love the LRT overall and hope increased frequency alleviates the current issues.

They didn't seem that narrow to me compared to recent travels, not wide either, fairly normalish. One thing I think is a bit better is vertical circulation than in many systems I've been on, where exit stairs are usually at one or both ends of the platform, or a single congested exit at the middle. Lyon is akward, but I think Parliament and Rideau have decent flow.

[kmcamp]

Anyway there are two serious flaws in our system that I feel, which is Tunney's and the bus loop at Hurdman which is not temporary. Tunney's can't be fixed and we'll just have to live with it, but they still have a chance to correct their Moodie mistake and put in a centre platform before construction begins in earnest out there.

The Hurdman bus loop needs some actual shelter, they could use the elevated track as a structure to build a real bus terminal more along the lines of what Toronto has, as it's a permanent feature unlike Blair and Tunney's yet has the same temporary feel.

Edit: the other flaw was that the #ReallyBigServiceChange was really a mask for a #ReallyBigServiceCut. I don't the routing is the problem, it's the major reduction in frequencies across the entire bus network, like the 39 in Orleans only running every 30 minutes off peak, or increases upwards of other routes to the "frequent" 15 minute standard

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When we talk about the expense of running empty trains, that is the perfect reason for not having extra capacity for Gatineau passengers needing to travel from Bayview to downtown only. On the rest of the line, the trains will be running under capacity. The original studies for the Confederation Line specifically excluded passengers from Gatineau when determining the capacity and longevity of the line. It makes much more sense to run STO trains into downtown Ottawa separately so that the bulk of riders can walk to their destination.

You seem to have this idea that Bayview would be the sole transfer point for all of Gatineau. To my knowledge nobody has proposed that in this forum or officially. A proper network would involve several connection points. I shudder to think what would happen if there's a single connection point, as is being proposed at Rideau. Your idea that most STO riders would get off and walk is simply wrong. Many would transfer. And would seriously overwhelm the line at Rideau.

Far better to have several connection points and facilitate travel that even bypasses the Confederation Line (direct transfers on to the Trillium Line at Bayview). A proper system would have connection points on both sides of the core.

[RegionalRoad31]

At Tunney’s right now - next trains are in 12 and 15 (however the board has said that for several minutes now). Both platforms packed to the gills. It won’t be good if this happens on a freezing February morning.

EDIT: after much flip-flopping it now says 15 and 27. I think the most frustrating part right now are the unclear/unavailable alternate ways to get to work.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by RegionalRoad31

At Tunney’s right now - next trains are in 12 and 15 (however the board has said that for several minutes now). Both platforms packed to the gills. It won’t be good if this happens on a freezing February morning.

EDIT: after much flip-flopping it now says 15 and 27. I think the most frustrating part right now are the unclear/unavailable alternate ways to get to work.

Apparently some nitwit held the doors on the train at uOttawa until they broke according to Twitter, hence chaos

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by daud

increased frequencies would help for sure but those platforms are tight. My wife was a daily subway rider on the TTC and its the first thing she noted was the how skinny those platforms were-almost dangerously so with crowds at rush hour. Some stations seem a bit more spacious than others but honestly, I really did not expect to see this type of capacity so quickly.

I grew up in Toronto. The downtown platforms of the Confederation Line are similar to the underground streetcar platforms. On the skinnier side. But outside of special events I can't see the issue. In the morning, people are getting off and moving quickly to the stairs or escalator. The evening peak tends to be more distributed so while busy, it's not yet the safety issue. Bayview and Hurdman on the other hand..... Those are issues even with larger platforms.

Originally Posted by daud

I wonder if the POW bridge reversal has more to do with the realization that Line 1 would not support additional Gatineau transit riders more than their claim that bayview station itself can't support them. When they made that claim the first thought that comes to mind is Atocha in Madrid and I'm like WTF do you mean we can't manage a hub of 3 lines?? Just bad planning...

Still, I love the LRT overall and hope increased frequency alleviates the current issues.

All of this comes down to capacity management. Run trains every 2 mins and even Bayview riders might get seats. Their 4 minute frequencies on the narrow lower capacity rolling stock they chose is the problem. And it's only going to get worse with extensions, unless they accept that they need to add capacity with additional trains.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Anyway there are two serious flaws in our system that I feel, which is Tunney's and the bus loop at Hurdman which is not temporary. Tunney's can't be fixed and we'll just have to live with it, but they still have a chance to correct their Moodie mistake and put in a centre platform before construction begins in earnest out there.

The Hurdman bus loop needs some actual shelter, they could use the elevated track as a structure to build a real bus terminal more along the lines of what Toronto has, as it's a permanent feature unlike Blair and Tunney's yet has the same temporary feel.

I've said before that them cheaping out was a concern. And it's now becoming obvious that their cheaping out is coming back to bite riders in the six. The crappy bus loops are just symptoms of a wide disease if you will.

Their decision making for centre platforms is weird. They don't seem to have taken into account that centre platforms are convenient for a terminus. And all their planning seems to consider eventual extensions, with centre platforms reserved entirely for stations where they seem to think it would have been cheaper to build a centre platform (fewer stairs, escalators and elevators). It's basically a fluke that Blair got a centre platform. It seems like Blair, Pimisi and Cyrville got centre platforms mostly as their long term traffic doesn't warrant dual platforms with larger stations. If this thinking remains at Moodie, expect them to stick to dual platforms with an eye to extension into Kanata.

I would add a third major flaw: rolling stock. Now that we're at full service. I am starting to see issues with their selection and design of rolling stock. Everyone crowds at the multi-pronged stanchion between the doors. Nobody moves into the aisle between the seats, because the stanchions are really far apart and effectively only one person can hold on at each. It's obvious that they would have been better with wider heavy rail rolling stock. And having stuck with LRT, they should have put in only sidefacing perimeter seating and a lot more standing room, as is usually done on narrower rolling stock in many busy metro systems.

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Edit: the other flaw was that the #ReallyBigServiceChange was really a mask for a #ReallyBigServiceCut. I don't the routing is the problem, it's the major reduction in frequencies across the entire bus network, like the 39 in Orleans only running every 30 minutes off peak, or increases upwards of other routes to the "frequent" 15 minute standard

You really need to tweet this out at Manconi and Watson. It's pretty disgusting how much they cut bus schedules.

[Truenorth00]

I took the train at 0730 this morning. It was marginally better than the 80% crush load I experienced yesterday. But still an issue. I've decided, I might just backtrack from Cyrville a stop if I want a seat at rush. Adds about 8 mins. Depends how desperately I want a seat on a given morning.

Most people stay near the doors. Because that's where the most standing room and the multi-pronged stanchions are. You will normally only see a single person standing at each stanchion, in the aisle between the seats. This is where, I suspect, the capacity argument, by Manconi et al. falls apart. In reality, people aren't filling up every nook and cranny. Their choice of rolling stock and seat config is absolutely impacting usability. There's only one way to compensate. Higher frequencies. It's a question of when that message gets through.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You seem to have this idea that Bayview would be the sole transfer point for all of Gatineau. To my knowledge nobody has proposed that in this forum or officially. A proper network would involve several connection points. I shudder to think what would happen if there's a single connection point, as is being proposed at Rideau. Your idea that most STO riders would get off and walk is simply wrong. Many would transfer. And would seriously overwhelm the line at Rideau.

Far better to have several connection points and facilitate travel that even bypasses the Confederation Line (direct transfers on to the Trillium Line at Bayview). A proper system would have connection points on both sides of the core.

Yep thats what I think too about Lrt's Friend as well. Based on my own experience as a Gatineau resident that uses both transit sytems, most STO passengers get off near Lyon station and walk the rest of the way. The few that need to transfer to line 1 like me head east. When I did get on the train around 640am the train was less than half full then more got off at Parliament and Rideau stations.

So based on my experience, it makes no sense to have the tramsfer point at Bayview for STO users like myself. Its too far west to make any of the eastern connections on time. The best stations for STO and OC Transpo connections are Lyon, Parliament and Rideau.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Apparently some nitwit held the doors on the train at uOttawa until they broke according to Twitter, hence chaos

More like some nitwits built a train that breaks down during normal operation, and they can't fix it for several months now. Completely unacceptable.

[daud]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

More like some nitwits built a train that breaks down during normal operation, and they can't fix it for several months now. Completely unacceptable.

Some context and insight into why doors are being held open...crowding

[acottawa]

Every metro system has idiots trying to hold the doors open. Most of them don't cause door breakages.

I think the low floor design was a terrible mistake. Whatever miniscule amount of money they saved in concrete was not worth it.

The vehicles are the same width as the Docklands Light Rail or the Copenhagen Metro, which offer noticeably more space.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Yep thats what I think too about Lrt's Friend as well. Based on my own experience as a Gatineau resident that uses both transit sytems, most STO passengers get off near Lyon station and walk the rest of the way. The few that need to transfer to line 1 like me head east. When I did get on the train around 640am the train was less than half full then more got off at Parliament and Rideau stations.

So based on my experience, it makes no sense to have the tramsfer point at Bayview for STO users like myself. Its too far west to make any of the eastern connections on time. The best stations for STO and OC Transpo connections are Lyon, Parliament and Rideau.

From my perspective, crossing the Trillium across the PoW and terminating at Zibi (where they can walk to Terraces/Portage or bus to Portage) saves capacity and transfers for those coming for the south. Otherwise, you'll get up to 200 people transferring onto a packed train every 12 minutes just to transfer one station later. So PoW is mostly for Ottawa passengers heading to Gatineau, or Gatineau to Tunney's and not Gatineau to downtown Ottawa, as they would get the Portage and/or Alexandra link.

[J.OT13]

Speaking of the door issue, we just need an extra train or two running at peak. Yes high floor would help, but it's not absolutely necessary.

At the moment, too many people are getting out, going against those trying to get in, which results in doors getting held open. And for those who do go further into the train and into the aisles, it will be quite difficult to get out at uOttawa, Rideau or Parliament (by Lyon, most of the train empties) and could miss their stop if doors aren't held.

So add trains and re-adjust dwell times. Reduce the one at Cyrville and VIA in order to increase Hurdman to Lyon.