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  #12741  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 8:05 PM
JM1 JM1 is offline
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My experience this morning was not very good. The train was full at 8:30 -- I know this is rush hour, but still, the system is supposed to allow for growth in demand. On day one it is already at capacity?

Also, when I alighted at Parliament station, the platform did not flow properly (it was too narrow at the escalators for everyone leaving the platform to get past the bottleneck).

Not very good signs for a system that is supposed to take us into the future. Is it possible that they miscalculated?
     
     
  #12742  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JM1 View Post
My experience this morning was not very good. The train was full at 8:30 -- I know this is rush hour, but still, the system is supposed to allow for growth in demand. On day one it is already at capacity?
This is starting to sound a lot like Vancouver's Canada Line.
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  #12743  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 8:47 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by JM1 View Post
My experience this morning was not very good. The train was full at 8:30 -- I know this is rush hour, but still, the system is supposed to allow for growth in demand. On day one it is already at capacity?

Also, when I alighted at Parliament station, the platform did not flow properly (it was too narrow at the escalators for everyone leaving the platform to get past the bottleneck).

Not very good signs for a system that is supposed to take us into the future. Is it possible that they miscalculated?
The system has just enough trains right now for demand. It has plenty of capacity available by adding trains. My afternoon commute seems okay so far, yes I'm standing on the train, but it's definitely not a crush load.

Edit: My transfer at Hurdman also worked fine. I was a bit concerned by the amount of people at stop C, but the 99 isn't that crowded. I do think paths behind the shelters like at Tunney's might be a good idea here though.

Edit 2: My commute is definitely better than pre LRT. However I've been transferring at Hurdman for ages now, my local bus lost downtown access ages ago in one of the earlier ready 4 rail changes. The bus had seats for everyone, and there was still plenty of room on the train compared to crowded buses I rode where my face would pretty much be in someone's back

I do think though for people who had a 1 seat ride each way are not used to such big city things and are having a harder time adjusting, for them it would definitely be a worse experience

The trains aren't crowded when full compared to the old 9x routes, but for riders that took 2xx routes it would definitely be a shock. Definitely winners and losers here, but you'll hear a lot of gripes from the losers. Doesn't mean their points are invalid, but do take context into account

Last edited by kmcamp; Oct 7, 2019 at 9:21 PM.
     
     
  #12744  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 9:16 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Quote:
Christina Succi @CTVChristina
1h
Here is @OC_Transpo GM John Manconi on why the city dropped from 15 double car trains to 13 in weekday rush hour: lower ridership, saving money, still have capability to go to 15, will monitor the situation #ottawa #otttransit #ottawa #lrt
https://twitter.com/CTVChristina/status/1181294819198590977
The hell? Saving money? I thought there were some issues with running 15.
     
     
  #12745  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 9:39 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Counc. Allan Hubley was just interviewed on CTV News. He said it went better than he expected. He also said that it should be expected that trains will be very crowded at peak hours, not mentioning that people were getting left behind. Matt Skube stumbled out of the interview, like he was expecting a little more frank conversation. It was b.s.

They should have deliberately went out of their way to make sure there was lots of capacity at peak hours so people would be delighted with the trains and offsetting other complaints about the buses. This leaves a sour taste for the new system with the public. We spent $2.1B for this, is going to be in many people's minds. The new transit system needs to be better than the old one.
     
     
  #12746  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 9:51 PM
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Added 1 hour to my commute and 40 min of that was waiting for a bus at blair to go to place. There were also around 800 people waiting for the same bus
Is this real? How can we botch bus scheduling this much?
     
     
  #12747  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:04 PM
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LRT trains were packed, but not to capacity during the morning commute, transit boss says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 7, 2019


LRT trains weren’t at capacity during the morning peak-period service Monday, even though it might have seemed like no one else could have possibly squeezed on some rail vehicles, the head of OC Transpo said after the commute.

“Trains are busy (but) they’re not at their full capacity,” John Manconi said outside Tunney’s Pasture Station. “I know that seems tight for some of the customers. It’s a new experience for them. That’s what mass transit is about.”

When passengers didn’t board a train, that was their choice, Manconi said. Perhaps they didn’t want to enter a full car, they wanted to wait for the next train or they were following instructions from transit staff on the platform, he said.

“It’s going to take a few days to get through the transition for everybody. It’s running well overall,” Manconi said.

About 100 bus routes changed on Sunday, leading to the first workday morning commute Monday under Transpo’s redrawn LRT-era network map. No longer are suburban transit customers able to board a bus in their communities for a direct-to-downtown trip. Instead, they must transfer to trains for the rest of their trips into the core.

Transpo didn’t have morning ridership numbers available for LRT stations. Manconi said those statistics will be crunched in the coming days and weeks, but there was no doubt there were more people on the LRT system Monday compared to last week.

Manconi said the trains are designed to be busy. Each two-car train can hold 600 people.

Transpo revealed in August it would only need 13 double-car trains to meet passenger demand in the morning and afternoon peak periods, rather than the 15 double-car trains that were anticipated for years up until then.

On Monday, Manconi said the 13 trains were enough to meet peak-period demand. He was at Tunney’s Pasture at the busiest time during the morning commute and he observed that the trains were handling the volume of passengers.

Transpo reported no train breakdowns during the morning commute. Manconi said the only hiccup was a two-minute delay at 5 a.m.

Transit customers, meanwhile, were figuring out the new bus routes connected to LRT stations.

Manconi said Transpo heard of bus delays, overloaded buses and buses not showing up.

There were 18 cancelled bus trips in the morning and Transpo was looking into the causes, Manconi said. Transpo organizes between 2,000 and 3,000 trips every morning.

Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley, chair of the transit commission, said he observed the morning peak-period transit service. He encouraged transit customers “to have a little patience,” since there are many first-time passengers on the LRT system.

Transit officials were also trying to drive home one particular message to passengers: you don’t need to tap your Presto card on buses when transferring from LRT stations to buses in fare-paid zones. Doing that only slows down the passenger flow.

Other councillors watched firsthand how customers managed their morning trips.

Innes Coun. Laura Dudas, who’s a longtime Transpo customer, reported a problem-free transit trip in the morning, taking a Route 25 bus to Blair Station, arriving around 8 a.m., and taking a train to Tunney’s Pasture for an appointment in that area.

Dudas said her train felt “comfortably full” compared to what a jam-packed bus feels like. She collected advice from fellow passengers and transit staff. She wants Transpo to be receptive to feedback.

Gloucester-South Nepean Coun. Carol Anne Meehan, who has been trying to promote the public transit system to her constituents through social media, said her bus trip to Tunney’s Pasture was “fabulous,” but she couldn’t believe the crowds at the LRT station. She compared the number of people trying to navigate the station to people leaving a concert.

“It was a mass of people,” Meehan said, noting that some customers couldn’t board a train because it was so full and they had to wait for the next one.

Bay Coun. Theresa Kavanagh, who’s a transit commissioner, said she started her transit trip to city hall by taking a busy Route 85 bus before transferring to a Route 84 bus a Lincoln Fields for the connection to Tunney’s Pasture Station, where she arrived around 8:30 a.m. Transpo staff were helping people navigate the station. She saw no problems.

It might take one or two weeks for people to feel completely at ease with their new transit commutes, Kavanagh said.

“We’re still being trained,” Kavanagh said. “You could feel the sense that we’re all going to get there eventually.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ng-the-morning-commute-transit-boss-says
     
     
  #12748  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:18 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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It is too expensive to run empty trains, says Manconi, when asked why they reduced the number of trains from 15 to 13.
     
     
  #12749  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:25 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
It is too expensive to run empty trains, says Manconi, when asked why they reduced the number of trains from 15 to 13.
Then don't run them outside of peak hours.
     
     
  #12750  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:26 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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This is why I'm no fan of Manconi and want to see him gone.

Not packed? Maybe not for the whole rush hour but it definitely was packed at the peak. And that is because they weren't clearing the platforms fast enough at the terminus. A consequence of not having enough trains.

I raised this exact point when I suggested I wouldn't get a seat at Cyrville during the morning rush. Instead, I got a train, I might not have been able to board. Forget getting a seat. If I want one, I'd have to backtrack..... Just like Yonge Line riders in Toronto.

It's pretty clear they are deflecting because they pulled the trigger to launch and don't want an angry public calling them out. Forget a horrible experience, this creates real safety issues when you have platforms that crowded and no barriers.

And all this is only going to get worse with Winter. Heavier clothing. Wet, slushy and sometimes slippery floors.

Also, the busiest station this morning in my experience was UOttawa. By far. Felt like a third to half the train disembarked at that one station. I have a feeling they'll need to plan for more trains during the school year.
     
     
  #12751  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:27 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
LRT trains were packed, but not to capacity during the morning commute, transit boss says

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 7, 2019


LRT trains weren’t at capacity during the morning peak-period service Monday, even though it might have seemed like no one else could have possibly squeezed on some rail vehicles, the head of OC Transpo said after the commute.

“Trains are busy (but) they’re not at their full capacity,” John Manconi said outside Tunney’s Pasture Station. “I know that seems tight for some of the customers. It’s a new experience for them. That’s what mass transit is about.”

When passengers didn’t board a train, that was their choice, Manconi said. Perhaps they didn’t want to enter a full car, they wanted to wait for the next train or they were following instructions from transit staff on the platform, he said.

“It’s going to take a few days to get through the transition for everybody. It’s running well overall,” Manconi said.

About 100 bus routes changed on Sunday, leading to the first workday morning commute Monday under Transpo’s redrawn LRT-era network map. No longer are suburban transit customers able to board a bus in their communities for a direct-to-downtown trip. Instead, they must transfer to trains for the rest of their trips into the core.

Transpo didn’t have morning ridership numbers available for LRT stations. Manconi said those statistics will be crunched in the coming days and weeks, but there was no doubt there were more people on the LRT system Monday compared to last week.

Manconi said the trains are designed to be busy. Each two-car train can hold 600 people.

Transpo revealed in August it would only need 13 double-car trains to meet passenger demand in the morning and afternoon peak periods, rather than the 15 double-car trains that were anticipated for years up until then.

On Monday, Manconi said the 13 trains were enough to meet peak-period demand. He was at Tunney’s Pasture at the busiest time during the morning commute and he observed that the trains were handling the volume of passengers.

Transpo reported no train breakdowns during the morning commute. Manconi said the only hiccup was a two-minute delay at 5 a.m.

Transit customers, meanwhile, were figuring out the new bus routes connected to LRT stations.

Manconi said Transpo heard of bus delays, overloaded buses and buses not showing up.

There were 18 cancelled bus trips in the morning and Transpo was looking into the causes, Manconi said. Transpo organizes between 2,000 and 3,000 trips every morning.

Kanata South Coun. Allan Hubley, chair of the transit commission, said he observed the morning peak-period transit service. He encouraged transit customers “to have a little patience,” since there are many first-time passengers on the LRT system.

Transit officials were also trying to drive home one particular message to passengers: you don’t need to tap your Presto card on buses when transferring from LRT stations to buses in fare-paid zones. Doing that only slows down the passenger flow.

Other councillors watched firsthand how customers managed their morning trips.

Innes Coun. Laura Dudas, who’s a longtime Transpo customer, reported a problem-free transit trip in the morning, taking a Route 25 bus to Blair Station, arriving around 8 a.m., and taking a train to Tunney’s Pasture for an appointment in that area.

Dudas said her train felt “comfortably full” compared to what a jam-packed bus feels like. She collected advice from fellow passengers and transit staff. She wants Transpo to be receptive to feedback.

Gloucester-South Nepean Coun. Carol Anne Meehan, who has been trying to promote the public transit system to her constituents through social media, said her bus trip to Tunney’s Pasture was “fabulous,” but she couldn’t believe the crowds at the LRT station. She compared the number of people trying to navigate the station to people leaving a concert.

“It was a mass of people,” Meehan said, noting that some customers couldn’t board a train because it was so full and they had to wait for the next one.

Bay Coun. Theresa Kavanagh, who’s a transit commissioner, said she started her transit trip to city hall by taking a busy Route 85 bus before transferring to a Route 84 bus a Lincoln Fields for the connection to Tunney’s Pasture Station, where she arrived around 8:30 a.m. Transpo staff were helping people navigate the station. She saw no problems.

It might take one or two weeks for people to feel completely at ease with their new transit commutes, Kavanagh said.

“We’re still being trained,” Kavanagh said. “You could feel the sense that we’re all going to get there eventually.”

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ng-the-morning-commute-transit-boss-says
I'll flip to the other side of the coin. Despite what some people think the trains definitely aren't crush loaded. However Manconi doesn't realize people aren't boxes. Just because you could cram more people onto the train doesn't mean you should. We don't need to wait for Tokyo subway kind of crowding before adding the other trains we already have. They should add the two trains anyway for comfort
     
     
  #12752  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:45 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by kmcamp View Post
I'll flip to the other side of the coin. Despite what some people think the trains definitely aren't crush loaded. However Manconi doesn't realize people aren't boxes. Just because you could cram more people onto the train doesn't mean you should. We don't need to wait for Tokyo subway kind of crowding before adding the other trains we already have. They should add the two trains anyway for comfort
Some people do not push back into empty spaces and many like to stand at doors and block other people's access. Hard to stop this behaviour, when there is nobody monitoring. Crush loading is a big mistake as it slows down service. The C-Line can't wait for every possible passenger to make room on a crowded train. It is a little disappointing hearing how low our expectations should be from those in charge.
     
     
  #12753  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:47 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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When I wasn't able to get on a train in the morning, there was a lady that was not going to "the back of the bus" towards one or the driver's cabs. She was maybe reducing capacity by 2-3 people. I signalled to her to move back but she shook her head. When I got on my train I went to the same spot and moved all the way back, but saw what the problem was: I am 6'4" and grabbing the bars in that area was a reach, the shorter lady didn't move back because she was afraid of falling over.

Installing grab loops on the bars would increase capacity marginally at minimal cost.

*Edit, I also have to say that Manconi and Co. are presenting an overly optimistic picture on purpose, to not scare away ridership further. But by not acknowledging issues they tell anyone that had a tough time today that it's not going to get better. They need to walk a fine line communications wise and they are not succeeding IMO.

This is also a pattern of behaviour. Top OC Transp management never publicly acknowledges that user complaints are valid, and even publicly belittle anyone with constructive critisim, but then they sometimes make changes based on the complaints anyway without crediting whoever made the suggestion.
     
     
  #12754  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:11 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
When I wasn't able to get on a train in the morning, there was a lady that was not going to "the back of the bus" towards one or the driver's cabs. She was maybe reducing capacity by 2-3 people. I signalled to her to move back but she shook her head. When I got on my train I went to the same spot and moved all the way back, but saw what the problem was: I am 6'4" and grabbing the bars in that area was a reach, the shorter lady didn't move back because she was afraid of falling over.

Installing grab loops on the bars would increase capacity marginally at minimal cost.

*Edit, I also have to say that Manconi and Co. are presenting an overly optimistic picture on purpose, to not scare away ridership further. But by not acknowledging issues they tell anyone that had a tough time today that it's not going to get better. They need to walk a fine line communications wise and they are not succeeding IMO.

This is also a pattern of behaviour. Top OC Transp management never publicly acknowledges that user complaints are valid, and even publicly belittle anyone with constructive critisim, but then they sometimes make changes based on the complaints anyway without crediting whoever made the suggestion.
I do really think they are planning on crush capacity, which isn't a good idea. We shouldn't be assuming we only add capacity once we're crush loaded. That's too late.

I don't think the general public though understands the relationship between frequency and capacity though. They looked at today and think the system is maxed out, when really adding even just 2 more trains means another 1000ish people can get on.
     
     
  #12755  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:25 PM
kmcamp kmcamp is offline
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On a different topic than the train, one of my buses didn't show up this morning, not a big deal because a different route comes by minutes later, but I definitely think the train highlights our unreliable bus service even more. Today might be a bit of a mess as drivers might be a bit confused too with the new routes, but after a few days that excuse won't fly.
     
     
  #12756  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:27 PM
JM1 JM1 is offline
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Has Manconi responded about the platform issue? The platforms just aren’t wide enough. At Parliament this morning people were held up exiting the train. That will only get worse with crush loading.

Also, people need to stand on the right and walk on the left on the escalators. That might help traffic flow a bit.

They need to fix the signs in the downtown station that point people to the contra-flow up escalators.
     
     
  #12757  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:31 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multi-modal View Post
When I wasn't able to get on a train in the morning, there was a lady that was not going to "the back of the bus" towards one or the driver's cabs. She was maybe reducing capacity by 2-3 people. I signalled to her to move back but she shook her head. When I got on my train I went to the same spot and moved all the way back, but saw what the problem was: I am 6'4" and grabbing the bars in that area was a reach, the shorter lady didn't move back because she was afraid of falling over.

Installing grab loops on the bars would increase capacity marginally at minimal cost.

*Edit, I also have to say that Manconi and Co. are presenting an overly optimistic picture on purpose, to not scare away ridership further. But by not acknowledging issues they tell anyone that had a tough time today that it's not going to get better. They need to walk a fine line communications wise and they are not succeeding IMO.

This is also a pattern of behaviour. Top OC Transp management never publicly acknowledges that user complaints are valid, and even publicly belittle anyone with constructive critisim, but then they sometimes make changes based on the complaints anyway without crediting whoever made the suggestion.
I commented on the grab bars being not continuous and often located over the middle of seats instead of where people stand, a difficult reach for many. It was also clear that if you are not tall, you can only hold on where vertical bars are located.
     
     
  #12758  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:40 PM
JM1 JM1 is offline
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I think the platforms are too long for the trains now. I went to the front of the platform to wait for a train and had to walk back a ways to get to the front of the train, let alone a door. They don’t have the place on the platform where the train stops marked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Capacity can go up to 18,000+ phpd with the current 96 meter trains. Once we're ready for the longer trains, we'll also need to extend the above ground platforms.
     
     
  #12759  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2019, 11:42 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by JM1 View Post
Has Manconi responded about the platform issue? The platforms just aren’t wide enough. At Parliament this morning people were held up exiting the train. That will only get worse with crush loading.

Also, people need to stand on the right and walk on the left on the escalators. That might help traffic flow a bit.

They need to fix the signs in the downtown station that point people to the contra-flow up escalators.
In some respects, this may be a bigger concern than train capacity. Trains frequency can be increased, and trains can be lengthened, but platform and exit capacities may be much more difficult to expand. Was it a big mistake when we reduced the number of downtown stations from 4 to 3, which would have spread out passengers loads better?
     
     
  #12760  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2019, 12:09 AM
LeadingEdgeBoomer LeadingEdgeBoomer is offline
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Did anyone have a chance to check out the McKenzie Bridge Today? Did it seem different without the volume of buses?
     
     
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