Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

The general theme seems to be on Twitter is that the train is fast and nice.... And then you have to transfer to a bus which is probably not showing up or late. OC Transpo really does have to work on the bus service next.

I'm sort of leaning this way too. Nothing makes the flaws in bus service more apparent, than the contrast of great rail service at the station. We'll get more regular folk asking about bus service going forward....I hope....

[Gat-Train]

I think we can all agree that the city shat the bed on the Trillium line extension/upgrades. I maintain the airport spur is the biggest white elephant in Ottawa's history. Especially considering that if VIA HFR takes off it's gonna suck a good deal of passengers out of MacDonald-Cartier, particularly YOW-YUL.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Horus

I think too much is being made of this. It's no more than 100m door-to-door from the VIA station to Tremblay, part of which has that roof structure.
It's a transfer that is going to be used, at most, by a couple of hundred people per day, with only a percentage who will have pull-along luggage.

How many days does it actually snow any appreciable amount in Ottawa?
According to this site, Ottawa averages about 12 days per year where we get 5cm or more of snow.

Is that worth over-engineering an enclosed walkway?

Few points.

First, the number of snow days doesn't correspond to crap on the ground.

Next, the cost of a covered walkway is really not that huge for VIA.

Lastly, I did say it makes sense as part of an overall effort with rejuvenating the station and designing it for higher traffic volumes, with HFR. Until then, I agree, it's not the highest priority.

[zzptichka]

"No escalators at Tremblay, so I'm taking a cab" - said no one ever.

For 99% of destinations you would still have to go outside into the elements, so walkway would achieve nothing. Except have an effect on capital costs, maintenance and aesthetics.

[On Edge]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I think we can all agree that the city shat the bed on the Trillium line extension/upgrades. I maintain the airport spur is the biggest white elephant in Ottawa's history. Especially considering that if VIA HFR takes off it's gonna suck a good deal of passengers out of MacDonald-Cartier, particularly YOW-YUL.

Agreed on the shatting the bed part, but to me, the Moodie and Trim Road extensions are nonsense and that money could have gone to double tracking the Trillium. The airport spur is a train going somewhere. Moodie and Trim are just a sop to make an outer suburb commute a minute shorter.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My original comment was an observation that Tremblay station was not ideal. I also stated that compromises are necessary. It is too bad that VIA rail does not provide a sidewalk cover towards Tremblay station in front of its own building. Obviously, this was beyond the scope of the project, just as the pedestrian connection to the Trainyards (needed) was beyond the scope of the project.

Well, we all know the tunnel connection to the Trainyards exists, and is being used but only for Via ticket holders to access the Via platforms from the train station - the exit to the south towards Trainyards is closed. Maybe, one day, someone at Via will have a change of heart and realise this should be a public walkway linking Trainyards, Via station and Tremblay LRT station. All that extra foot traffic can be beneficial to the train station too, if Via adds some retail at the train station or in the tunnel (like in many European cities).

The excuse I heard why Via uses this tunnel only for Via ticket holders is because the train platforms are too narrow to allow ticket holders and non ticket holders access them at same time. That's fine, so why not scan tickets down in the tunnel before the stairs up to the platforms? And in turn open the tunnel up to the public? Its certainly wide enough to handle Via passengers and public through traffic.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I think we can all agree that the city shat the bed on the Trillium line extension/upgrades. I maintain the airport spur is the biggest white elephant in Ottawa's history. Especially considering that if VIA HFR takes off it's gonna suck a good deal of passengers out of MacDonald-Cartier, particularly YOW-YUL.

Really depends on how they implement the transfer at South Keys.
If it's smooth and synchronized cross-platform interchange I won't have any issues with it.
If you have to wonder through the stairs and wait for your train then it would suck.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Bus breaks down, send another one out to replace it. Streetcar breaks down, entire line shuts down until you can tow that LRV away. It's the difference between a series circuit and a parallel circuit on a string of Christmas lights.

I am familiar with the topological difference, and it might matter if there was any meaningful difference in the ability of a well-managed street railway to get a disabled vehicle out of the way, and OC Transpo's ability to keep bus service running on urban main streets, but there isn't.

I'll take the smoothness of ride, fixèdness of route, and rearness of door boarding over an urban transit system using some of the worst 40-foot buses on offer by bus manufacturers, any day of the week.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

We are now seeing that sectors of the city which are in the minority will be pretty well ignored because the Confederation Line is demanding the lion's share of city resources. This will continue to be the case for the next 20 years until all C-Line extensions are completed.

That will bring us to nearly 40 years of deteriorating transit service in the older urban core, then.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Radster

Well, we all know the tunnel connection to the Trainyards exists, and is being used but only for Via ticket holders to access the Via platforms from the train station - the exit to the south towards Trainyards is closed. Maybe, one day, someone at Via will have a change of heart and realise this should be a public walkway linking Trainyards, Via station and Tremblay LRT station. All that extra foot traffic can be beneficial to the train station too, if Via adds some retail at the train station or in the tunnel (like in many European cities).

The excuse I heard why Via uses this tunnel only for Via ticket holders is because the train platforms are too narrow to allow ticket holders and non ticket holders access them at same time. That's fine, so why not scan tickets down in the tunnel before the stairs up to the platforms? And in turn open the tunnel up to the public? Its certainly wide enough to handle Via passengers and public through traffic.

The problem is probably more about security and interference with Via's passengers. It is not wise to mix passengers who have been cleared to board the train with those that have not or are not even ticket holders. You don't get to mix with passengers and have access to platforms or loading ramps at Union Station or Gare Centrale or any ANY airport. These areas are for the use of passengers only.

If you are servicing a development then then developer should pay for the access.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Really depends on how they implement the transfer at South Keys.
If it's smooth and synchronized cross-platform interchange I won't have any issues with it.
If you have to wonder through the stairs and wait for your train then it would suck.

We really don't know the final plan. One of the last things I heard is that airport trains will arrive midway between the main line trains. There will be a 6 minute wait, but that could all change with the final design. The ideal would have South Keys to Bayview double tracked so that airport trains could go to Bayview and overall frequency and speed on the main line improved. Not happening any decade soon.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Radster

Well, we all know the tunnel connection to the Trainyards exists, and is being used but only for Via ticket holders to access the Via platforms from the train station - the exit to the south towards Trainyards is closed. Maybe, one day, someone at Via will have a change of heart and realise this should be a public walkway linking Trainyards, Via station and Tremblay LRT station. All that extra foot traffic can be beneficial to the train station too, if Via adds some retail at the train station or in the tunnel (like in many European cities).

The excuse I heard why Via uses this tunnel only for Via ticket holders is because the train platforms are too narrow to allow ticket holders and non ticket holders access them at same time. That's fine, so why not scan tickets down in the tunnel before the stairs up to the platforms? And in turn open the tunnel up to the public? Its certainly wide enough to handle Via passengers and public through traffic.

The problem is probably more about security and interference with Via's passengers. It is not wise to mix passengers who have been cleared to board the train with those that have not or are not even ticket holders. You don't get to mix with passengers and have access to platforms or loading ramps at Union Station or Gare Centrale or any ANY airport if you are not a passenger. These areas are for the use of passengers only.

If you are servicing a development then then developer should pay for the access.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

The problem is probably more about security and interference with Via's passengers. It is not wise to mix passengers who have been cleared to board the train with those that have not or are not even ticket holders. You don't get to mix with passengers and have access to platforms or loading ramps at Union Station or Gare Centrale or any ANY airport. These areas are for the use of passengers only.

Only in Canada. My European blood can't get over this limitation. Every big train station across the world has train platforms that are accessible to everyone who wishes to greet or say bye to their loved ones as they board or get off the trains. Only in Canada do we block this behaviour by pretending train stations are airports, and in turn we remove one of the advantages and perks of train travel.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by On Edge

Agreed on the shatting the bed part, but to me, the Moodie and Trim Road extensions are nonsense and that money could have gone to double tracking the Trillium. The airport spur is a train going somewhere. Moodie and Trim are just a sop to make an outer suburb commute a minute shorter.

1) Moodie is specifically about the thousands of military and civilian personnel working at the Nortel campus. And has the added benefit of making a second yard cheaper and more accessible, while also reducing the VMT on buses from Kanata and Stittsville.

2) Trim was paid for with federal and provincial funds if I'm not mistaken. How is everyone so sure, those politicians would have been okay with that money going to something else? Cause it seems to me they wanted to pay for something very specific and the alternative is no extra funding. The small silver lining here is that it pushes the exurban park n ride to the edge of Orleans. The goal now should be to reduce parking at stations elsewhere in Orleans and to maximize TOD.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Radster

Only in Canada. My European blood can't get over this limitation. Every big train station across the world has train platforms that are accessible to everyone who wishes to greet or say by to their loved ones as they board or get off the trains.

What? Not my experience in Spain, Germany, or UK. Most HSR and intercity rail platforms were restricted to ticket holders. And in many cases had bag scans and metal detectors to access the platform.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What? Not my experience in Spain, Germany, or UK. Most HSR and intercity rail platforms were restricted to ticket holders. And in many cases had bag scans and metal detectors to access the platform.

Must be recent, maybe due to terrorist attacks and threats. I have not travelled to those countries you listed recently. But the last few times I was in Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Poland) and all my train travelling memories in other parts of Europel, include the general public having access to train platforms at the big stations.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

1) Moodie is specifically about the thousands of military and civilian personnel working at the Nortel campus.

All the more reason for this type of stupid decentralization to be banished from the federal and municipal planning vocabulary.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Radster

Must be recent, maybe due to terrorist attacks and threats. I have not travelled to those countries you listed recently. But the last few times I was in Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Poland) and all my train travelling memories in other parts of Europel, include the general public having access to train platforms at the big stations.

My experience has been that the fancier trains in Europe (HSR-TGV, ICE Express, etc.) often offer something similar to airline check-in service.

But the vast majority of trains including the intercity ones are still as you describe. Often you can go on board and say goodbye to your loved ones, just as long as you get off before the train leaves the station.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Radster

Must be recent, maybe due to terrorist attacks and threats. I have not travelled to those countries you listed recently. But the last few times I was in Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Poland) and all my train travelling memories in other parts of Europel, include the general public having access to train platforms at the big stations.

Originally Posted by Acajack

My experience has been that the fancier trains in Europe (HSR-TGV, ICE Express, etc.) often offer something similar to airline check-in service.

But the vast majority of trains including the intercity ones are still as you describe. Often you can go on board and say goodbye to your loved ones, just as long as you get off before the train leaves the station.

As aviation infrastructure gets hardened, rail is starting to get targeted. And authorities are responding accordingly. The practices aren't uniform. In Spain, at one station, bags had to be scanned just to enter the station. At another, they simply had to be scanned to get on the platform. The likelihood of taking a intercity train with no checks is dropping in Europe. 2019 is not 1999 anymore. And major hubs and stations are likely to be quite tight on security these days.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

As aviation infrastructure gets hardened, rail is starting to get targeted. And authorities are responding accordingly. The practices aren't uniform. In Spain, at one station, bags had to be scanned just to enter the station. At another, they simply had to be scanned to get on the platform. The likelihood of taking a intercity train with no checks is dropping in Europe. 2019 is not 1999 anymore. And major hubs and stations are likely to be quite tight on security these days.

Though I've been there a lot more recently than 1999, I'd agree with the highlighted. Security isn't going anywhere but up.