Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Agreed. And I was aware that cutting fares for UPX was a major reason for ridership growth. Nevertheless, easy baggage handling on that line was critical since airport access was the main reason for those trains.

I am struggling to see what UPX did that is special for baggage handling at stations. It relies entirely on elevators for the airport itself and is level boarding at Union. And accessing UPX at T1 is actually a pain in the ass. Think of The stanchions that block of escalators at T1. It's not as built in to the airport as one would expect. I really hope we do a better job with the airport train here at the airport.

I would argue getting off at Tremblay and accessing the VIA station is as easy as using UPX, with one glaring exception: exposure to the elements. That's a bigger deal than no escalator. Especially when dragging a suitcase on a slush covered sidewalk.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I am struggling to see what UPX did that is special for baggage handling at stations. It relies entirely on elevators for the airport itself and is level boarding at Union. And accessing UPX at T1 is actually a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵. Think of The stanchions that block of escalators at T1. It's not as built in to the airport as one would expect. I really hope we do a better job with the airport train here at the airport.

I would argue getting off at Tremblay and accessing the VIA station is as easy as using UPX, with one glaring exception: exposure to the elements. That's a bigger deal than no escalator. Especially when dragging a suitcase on a slush covered sidewalk.

Lets be frank here, can't compare Via rail to airports. Most Via rail passengers ride with a carry-on, most airport passengers have checked luggage.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Radster

Lets be frank here, can't compare Via rail to airports. Most Via rail passengers ride with a carry-on, most airport passengers have checked luggage.

Difficult to really compare these days. More and more airline passengers are trying to get away with carry-on only to avoid luggage fees. Since we were travelling for several days, we had more than standard 'carry-on'. There are always several standard bags stowed on each VIA train car.

[Baybreeze12]

On an unrelated note, could we change the name of this thread to something like "Opened 2019"? I think by this point we can all agree that our rapid transit system has officially launched, more or less successfully.

[Gat-Train]

Riding the train now. It stopped in the tunnel and based on the sound and slow speed I think it has switched to manual operation.

[Gat-Train]

At Tunney’s, the trains alternate platforms except in the afternoon rush hour (Idk about mornings tho). Today from 3-6 they only stopped at platform 1. It has been like this all week. Around 6 pm was the only time I saw trains on both platforms at the same time.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Baybreeze12

On an unrelated note, could we change the name of this thread to something like "Opened 2019"? I think by this point we can all agree that our rapid transit system has officially launched, more or less successfully.

Seconded. Perhaps "Confederation Line | Beta Testing"

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

My question to you, is why did you advocate against a rail plan that was going to benefit tens of thousands of people in this city? Why are you even admitting it? This has cost taxpayers both the $100M original costs in direct payments and planning costs that were subsequently trashed in almost their entirety. There have been millions in other hidden costs as we have built parts of the original plan on a piecemeal basis, always at a much higher cost. We lost 10 years in getting LRT going in Ottawa when Phase 2 was going to be an east-west line anyways in the same time frame as has happened. What has been lost will never be recovered, both in costs and opportunity. You can say all you want about how the Trillium Line should be upgraded, but that won't be happening, and there is a direct impact in the long-term on South Ottawa that you fail to understand. This is not about me personally. It is about my whole sector of the city. I don't understand why you use the 'selfish' label to invalidate my comments. It is an unfair representation. This forum needs comments from a broad range of perspectives.

You lament the $100 million lost. That's peanuts compared to the more than 1 billion we would have spend building a tunnel and LRT to a future streetcar suburb, all while doing nothing to solve the bus congestion on Albert and Slater i.e. the biggest transit issue facing the city to this day.

The only beneficiaries of Chiarelli's garbage plan were developers and people living within walking distance of the line. Until the congestion in the core is solved, bus service everywhere will continue to suck.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

You lament the $100 million lost. That's peanuts compared to the more than 1 billion we would have spend building a tunnel and LRT to a future streetcar suburb, all while doing nothing to solve the bus congestion on Albert and Slater i.e. the biggest transit issue facing the city to this day.

The only beneficiaries of Chiarelli's garbage plan were developers and people living within walking distance of the line. Until the congestion in the core is solved, bus service everywhere will continue to 🞵🞵🞵🞵.

$100M is never peanuts. We should not be wasting that kind of money. It should be no surprise that we had to optimize (cut) bus service only a few years later to save money.

Yes, it didn't solve the congestion problem, and therefore my support for the tunnel. However, your assessment of whom would have benefited is unfair. It was the city (regional government at that time) who agreed to open up the land south of the airport for development. If that land had not been opened, it would have been other land even further from downtown and even less viable to serve with rapid transit.

Don't kid yourself. The Confederation Line also benefits developers and also provides windfalls when nearby land was up-zoned. The only difference is which developers are involved, but even that could be the exact same companies.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by White Pine

Wait... Did you just say something POSITIVE about Ottawa?!?

I have lots to say positive. Well, some things!

And the LRT is, growing pains aside, quite something. I just hope we have finally run out of excuses to not fix actually URBAN transit in Ottawa, because my patience is running the bleep out.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I have lots to say positive. Well, some things!

And the LRT is, growing pains aside, quite something. I just hope we have finally run out of excuses to not fix actually URBAN transit in Ottawa, because my patience is running the bleep out.

The general theme seems to be on Twitter is that the train is fast and nice.... And then you have to transfer to a bus which is probably not showing up or late. OC Transpo really does have to work on the bus service next.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I would argue getting off at Tremblay and accessing the VIA station is as easy as using UPX, with one glaring exception: exposure to the elements. That's a bigger deal than no escalator. Especially when dragging a suitcase on a slush covered sidewalk.

I think too much is being made of this. It's no more than 100m door-to-door from the VIA station to Tremblay, part of which has that roof structure.
It's a transfer that is going to be used, at most, by a couple of hundred people per day, with only a percentage who will have pull-along luggage.

How many days does it actually snow any appreciable amount in Ottawa?
According to this site, Ottawa averages about 12 days per year where we get 5cm or more of snow.

Is that worth over-engineering an enclosed walkway?

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I am struggling to see what UPX did that is special for baggage handling at stations. It relies entirely on elevators for the airport itself and is level boarding at Union. And accessing UPX at T1 is actually a pain in the 🞵🞵🞵. Think of The stanchions that block of escalators at T1. It's not as built in to the airport as one would expect. I really hope we do a better job with the airport train here at the airport.

I would argue getting off at Tremblay and accessing the VIA station is as easy as using UPX, with one glaring exception: exposure to the elements. That's a bigger deal than no escalator. Especially when dragging a suitcase on a slush covered sidewalk.

As someone who's taken UPX to Pearson T1 and who's currently reviewing Stage 2 station designs, the YOW station will provide a much more seamless connection to the airport. I'm obviously not a fan of the service plan for the airport, but they at least got the station right.

[OtrainUser]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

$100M is never peanuts. We should not be wasting that kind of money. It should be no surprise that we had to optimize (cut) bus service only a few years later to save money.

Yes, it didn't solve the congestion problem, and therefore my support for the tunnel. However, your assessment of whom would have benefited is unfair. It was the city (regional government at that time) who agreed to open up the land south of the airport for development. If that land had not been opened, it would have been other land even further from downtown and even less viable to serve with rapid transit.

Don't kid yourself. The Confederation Line also benefits developers and also provides windfalls when nearby land was up-zoned. The only difference is which developers are involved, but even that could be the exact same companies.

100 million out of 7 billion being spent on stage 1 and 2 is peanuts, at least that 7 billion is going towards existing riders that need a grade-separated metro system.

You have clearly missed the point from other posters, how can you justify spending money on a tunnel when you just build an at grade lrt that has lower capacity, easy answer is you can't. The political consequences would have seen more city councilors turfed for that kind of stupidly. Another thing you have ignored is Ottawa's past history with streetcars and Alot of it is negative, they were not reliable, cars would crash into a lot of them and they got stuck in the snow. So until Ottawa makes an attempt to kill car culture in this city nothing should be put at grade.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

Another thing you have ignored is Ottawa's past history with streetcars and Alot of it is negative, they were not reliable, cars would crash into a lot of them and they got stuck in the snow. So until Ottawa makes an attempt to kill car culture in this city nothing should be put at grade.

Buses are at grade, not reliable, cars crash into them, and they get stuck in the snow.

They are also the workhorses of the transit service.

Since buses and streetcars are subject to most of the same service detriments, that's no reason to not consider streetcars where and when we can also take advantage of their benefits, but no, we can't do that either because wires.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Buses are at grade, not reliable, cars crash into them, and they get stuck in the snow.

They are also the workhorses of the transit service.

Since buses and streetcars are subject to most of the same service detriments, that's no reason to not consider streetcars where and when we can also take advantage of their benefits, but no, we can't do that either because wires.

Bus breaks down, send another one out to replace it. Streetcar breaks down, entire line shuts down until you can tow that LRV away. It's the difference between a series circuit and a parallel circuit on a string of Christmas lights.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OtrainUser

100 million out of 7 billion being spent on stage 1 and 2 is peanuts, at least that 7 billion is going towards existing riders that need a grade-separated metro system.

You have clearly missed the point from other posters, how can you justify spending money on a tunnel when you just build an at grade lrt that has lower capacity, easy answer is you can't. The political consequences would have seen more city councilors turfed for that kind of stupidly. Another thing you have ignored is Ottawa's past history with streetcars and Alot of it is negative, they were not reliable, cars would crash into a lot of them and they got stuck in the snow. So until Ottawa makes an attempt to kill car culture in this city nothing should be put at grade.

I fully understand various poster's comments. The fact of the matter is that when the 2006 plan was cancelled, there was a promise made to provide an improved solution for that plan. City council failed to do what they promised. Almost 15 years later, we are still waiting. Since South Ottawa residents are in the minority overall, there is absolutely no leverage to get a proper replacement built. Now, they are talking about 2048 because the experts say they can get away with that. We also keep getting told that we have to wait for the train extension before roads can be improved. Just look at Bank Street south. It is a mess. Band aid solutions built on band aid solutions. Meanwhile, the developers keep building houses as they are entitled to do. We seem to be in denial that south communities will soon have a greater population than either Orleans or Kanata. This growth will accelerate as soon as the single track Trillium Line extension opens. The city does not have the money to provide a proper solution and we all know that.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Difficult to really compare these days. More and more airline passengers are trying to get away with carry-on only to avoid luggage fees. Since we were travelling for several days, we had more than standard 'carry-on'. There are always several standard bags stowed on each VIA train car.

Hence why I said "most" Via passengers travel with only carry-on luggage. Yes some have bigger luggage, but the ratio is definitely smaller than airline passengers. I think Tremblay station is just fine.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I have lots to say positive. Well, some things!

And the LRT is, growing pains aside, quite something. I just hope we have finally run out of excuses to not fix actually URBAN transit in Ottawa, because my patience is running the bleep out.

Sorry, but my impression is that this is not going to happen. The next priority will be to improve the bus transfers at Tunney's, Hurdman and Blair. If they don't get this right, suburban wrath will be upon City Council. At the moment, urban transit is the lowest priority. Not that I agree. But the C-Line investment will not have value if transfers are inefficient. Overall ridership will depend on this.

We are now seeing that sectors of the city which are in the minority will be pretty well ignored because the Confederation Line is demanding the lion's share of city resources. This will continue to be the case for the next 20 years until all C-Line extensions are completed.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Radster

Hence why I said "most" Via passengers travel with only carry-on luggage. Yes some have bigger luggage, but the ratio is definitely smaller than airline passengers. I think Tremblay station is just fine.

My original comment was an observation that Tremblay station was not ideal. I also stated that compromises are necessary. It is too bad that VIA rail does not provide a sidewalk cover towards Tremblay station in front of its own building. Obviously, this was beyond the scope of the project, just as the pedestrian connection to the Trainyards (needed) was beyond the scope of the project.