Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Is the river route any closer to the density of Westboro?

Yes. Westboro's density is concentrated in the areas within walking distance of Westboro and Dominion stations. They're way denser than the corresponding area of Carling due South (around Kirkwood/Churchill).

(FYI, as someone who lives in "real Westboro" I'm a bit of a purist about Westboro's borders. Carling & Churchill and Richmond & Woodroffe are not Westboro. Heck the way I see it even Bushtakah and the Superstore is kind of on Westboro's periphery--to me "Westboro proper" is Richmond between Tweedsmuir and Golden and the north south side streets up to Scott and down a few blocks from it and areas like Lanark Avenue and the convent development are peripheral areas of Westboro).

[Kitchissippi]

A couple days old and we're already having fun with it: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2aEXM9FsOF/

I guess they were running singles yesterday?

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

A couple days old and we're already having fun with it: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2aEXM9FsOF/

I guess they were running singles yesterday?

I saw that dufus and his lamp getting in the way at one of the downtown tunnels on Saturday afternoon.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I guess they were running singles yesterday?

Not that I saw- only doubles.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I agree that Ottawa has to work on getting headways to under 10 mins on all feeder routes. But a lack of bus service, doesn't suddenly justify requiring massive investment to interline rail services. It just means you have to improve bus service.

Yep, if ridership is really their goal, or at least a key metric by which they are measuring success, then frequency on urban feeder bus routes should be their priority.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though Montreal Rd. east of St. Laurent is arguably as dense and walkable as the vast majority of areas through which the existing Confederation Line, Trillium Line, and planned extensions will run.

An irrelevant point because trunk lines like the Confederation Line don't need density along the entire route. They need nodal density or trip generators at each stop. And feed.

Montreal-Rideau, and Bank and other corridors need to keep and boost density so that we justify at-grade lines with either diamond bus lanes, streetcars, etc.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

An irrelevant point because trunk lines like the Confederation Line don't need density along the entire route. They need nodal density or trip generators at each stop. And feed.

Montreal-Rideau, and Bank and other corridors need to keep and boost density so that we justify at-grade lines with either diamond bus lanes, streetcars, etc.

I don't think Montreal Rd. east of St. Laurent is lacking for nodes and trip generators: the Highlands, Le Parc and other high-density housing around St. Laurent, Montfort, CMHC, Cité collégiale, NRC, etc.

It's no more lacking than any of the other areas where lines are already or are being planned.

Hey, I mean I totally get why Ottawa built the Confederation Line (and the Transitway before that) where it did.

I also am aware of the challenges of finding a non-exorbitant solution for the Rideau-Montreal corridor.

But that doesn't mean people in that part of town aren't justified in feeling they are getting the short of the stick.

They quite clearly are.

[AuxTown]

Spectacular sunset shot at Hurdman:



Posted by u/Requins on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/d4tf4w/beautiful_sunset_at_hurdman_tonight/

[AuxTown]

Really liked this one too:



from The Ottawa Citizen https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/column...ew-lrt-but-think-of-what-might-have-been

[Truenorth00]

Great article recapping some of the history and advocacy.

I remember the end part of the last decade. And I completely forgot about Friends of the O-Train and their push against the combined Transitway/LRT plan that was part of the old LRT plan. The Confederation Line is fantastic today in part because of the advocacy of folks like this and David Jeanes.

[Kitchissippi]

I find it odd that the ticket machines won't let you pay for a day pass with a Presto card. If they are not allowing this, I wish they would make day passes automatic for Presto users so that rides after your third fare of the day become free. Better still, if you pay for more than 35 fares within a month it just turns into a monthly pass for the rest of the period. I think they do this on the GO Trains.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

from The Ottawa Citizen https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/column...ew-lrt-but-think-of-what-might-have-been

That article is such horseshit. I wonder if lrt's friend is Mohammed Adam.

We lost a decade and got a shorter, more expensive line, albeit with a tunnel. Not what you’d consider value for money.

Who cares about ridership? km for $ is apparently the only metric that matters. I am starting to wonder if this writer actually takes transit.

Chiarelli’s plan was to run rail from Barrhaven through what was then the emerging community of Riverside South to downtown. Some argued that running trains through a largely unbuilt Riverside South was a waste of resources because most of the ridership was east-west. However, the idea was to allow Riverside South to grow with the LRT, embedding a love for public transit in that part of town. The second phase would then run east-west. Think of how the capital would look like today given the progress we could have made.

It's amazing how much defenders of that old plan were concerned about hypothetical transit users over real ones. And how little they were concerned about the operational and fiscal sustainability of transit in their city. Developers first!

The main criticism of the north-south LRT however, was that it ran above grade downtown, not in a tunnel. But the tunnel could have been built for the east-west section and integrated into the north-south system.

Yeah, cause after spending nearly a billion dollars (the cost on the original proposal had ballooned up to nearly $900 million before a shovel hit the dirt), politicians everywhere would be happy to spend several hundred million on a parallel tunnel. Anybody who believes this is as gullible as Trump's supporters.

And the main criticism wasn't just the lack of a tunnel. It was also about telling existing transit users to screw off in the hopes of converting hypothetical users in brand new subdivisions 20-30 km from downtown.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I find it odd that the ticket machines won't let you pay for a day pass with a Presto card. If they are not allowing this, I wish they would make day passes automatic for Presto users so that rides after your third fare of the day become free. Better still, if you pay for more than 35 fares within a month it just turns into a monthly pass for the rest of the period. I think they do this on the GO Trains.

The big issue with loyalty schemes and passes, as I understand it, is our integration with STO. Both systems only recognize transfers and passes. Neither accepts the others fare card for payment at first boarding. So loyalty schemes would be an issue for any Ottawa residents commuting to Gatineau.

Honestly, Ottawa and Metrolinx need to work on getting Gatineau on-board with Presto. This issue is going to haunt the region till they do.

[JHikka]

I've seen a number of people frantically tapping the door open buttons on cars to open them from either side not realizing all the doors are automatic.

[Multi-modal]

A westbound train seems stuck. Just west of hurdman. It hasn't moved for several minutes.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I find it odd that the ticket machines won't let you pay for a day pass with a Presto card.

I was surprised (disappointed) by this too when we went to buy a family pass for our tour on Saturday. I just put it on the Visa, no big for me, but unless I'm missing something, it doesn't make any sense that the fare card cannot buy a class of fare, and this discrepancy would have impacts on others who don't/can't just slap it on another card.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What's the difference? When you get off the GO Train or subway and have to cover anything within a 10-15 min radius of Union station you walk. Everybody in Toronto does this. I don't know anybody who waits for a bus or a streetcar.

And while in university I had friends who would walk from Union to the U of T or Ryerson campus instead of spending the extra token, if they were 905ers. Only us Toronto kids took the subway to campus.

Like I said, you have a tourist's perspective. Not that of a Torontonian.

Do you really believe what you are saying? There is no comparison between a 905 commuter who has to pay another fare and there willingness to walk 10 or 15 minutes from Union Station on 1 hour ++ commute, and someone whose streetcar ride might total 10 or 15 minutes. I have been riding the streetcars for 4 days with ordinary Torontonians. They are not all tourists. The streetcars are designed for short trips and city residents take advantage of that heavily. Ridership on the King and Queen streetcars prove that. There is value in transit convenience and frequency and to provide service for short distance riders. Transit planning in Ottawa shouldn't be all about providing service to former Gloucester, Nepean and Kanata residents, the vast majority who will only ride in the AM and PM peak hours and rarely ride in the evenings and on weekends.

[lrt's friend]

It's amazing how much defenders of that old plan were concerned about hypothetical transit users over real ones. And how little they were concerned about the operational and fiscal sustainability of transit in their city. Developers first!

Would give us all a break? You won. And you won at the expense of other residents. Just see what is happening with the Trillium Line. How poor the design is. You have admitted it yourself, but this is the direct consequence of what happened in 2006.

The plan for the Confederation Line is also about future riders too. Future infill towers.
Stops are not conveniently located for the vast majority of existing residents. Very few people actually live within walking distance of stations. The shelved plans for a station at Jasmine Crescent is a perfect example. We would rather have a station at Montreal Road in a very pedestrian hostile location than where people of modest income live, our natural transit riders. We would rather serve upscale condo owners than those who need it the most.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Great article recapping some of the history and advocacy.

I remember the end part of the last decade. And I completely forgot about Friends of the O-Train and their push against the combined Transitway/LRT plan that was part of the old LRT plan. The Confederation Line is fantastic today in part because of the advocacy of folks like this and David Jeanes.

You say that because it serves you extremely well. We wasted $100M of our tax money because of that advocacy. A lot of that advocacy also related to the 'unnecessary' shut down of the Trillium Line. In the long-term, it will be shut down a lot longer than the original 3 year proposal and deliver far less.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Carling wasn't just more expensive it is a shittier route. More circuitous and it takes service away from the density in Westboro and moves it to the strip malls and parking lots of Carling. I don't get why everyone thinks Carling was ever a logical choice.

Carling has more development and more opportunities for development and re-development. It is also a major roadway and less likely to have complaints by local residents from high rise developments than along Richmond. It has more commercial office buildings which generates additional transit traffic throughout the day, more opportunities for additional high density commercial and residential development. Unfortunately the die has be cast by the City for a route that has less development potential, especially between Dominion and Sherborne.