Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

What we bought were essentially oversized streetcars. Maybe we should be running them on rail embedded in concrete when running through residential areas.

Which would then have speed restrictions. No thanks.

[TransitZilla]

Has anyone tried out the re-opened pedestrian connection from Tremblay to St-Laurent?

[Badyouken]

So, I finally rode the LRT last night after spending the weekend in Montreal and riding the Metro there.

My first impressions are very positive:

- It feels like a metro.
- Very, very smooth.
- I don't understand the people who said the trains or platforms were narrow. It's all quite normal.
- The underground stations are beautiful. I'm a fan of Rideau's depth, Lyon's concourse, and Parliament's colourful ceilings.
- The overground stations also look great. Overkill from an engineering perspective at times (Cyrville?), but beautiful from a public space perspective. I'm glad they went that way.
- It's neat to see the train curve along the line.
- It instantly gives a very different, more urban feel to the city.
- The long escalator at Rideau did not feel that long, honestly.
- Ottawans are not always great at transit etiquette, but that'll come with time.
- The layout of the seating on the trains is a bit puzzling to me, but fine.

Overall this is a massive step up for the city, and I look forward to seeing the development around each station.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Nobody in Toronto would have any sympathy for this. My university commute was based on a bus that ran every 15 min at peak, to the SRT to the Bloor-Danforth subway to the Yonge subway. My mother did the same for her written commute.

I disagree with this. Frequency is absolutely the key to increasing ridership and is as important in Toronto as it is in Ottawa. 10 minute frequencies is the sweet spot. At 10 minutes, people will just head out to a stop knowing a bus will be there in a reasonable time. Anything longer and the proposition changes. A canceled trip has you waiting around 30 minutes for a bus, which is longer that most people are prepared to wait.

In Toronto most of the buses that connect to subway stops in central areas have frequencies better than 15 minutes. My bus on Christie, a relatively low density central neighbourhood, ran every 8-10 minutes. Bathurst was even better.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by Radster

I read an article about a study done recently, I think in London at the tube stations but I might be wrong. They compared the amount of people an escalator can handle per hour if people simply stand side by side VS some standing on right while others walk up on the left. Surprisingly, standing side by side results in more capacity per hour!

This is true in high volumes. I've seen it in Budapest where walk-left stand-right is obeyed as though it's the word of God, people line up to stand on the right while the left is clear.

But in lower volumes, it slows down people who want to walk.

Basically the etiquette rule should be:
-if there's crowding to the point where people are waiting for the escalator, stand on both sides.
-otherwise, keep to the right if standing

[CityTech]

One thing I noticed is at the underground stations, when going from concourse is platform, I'd walk towards a stairway only to discover its an up-only escalator and have to turn around to find a stairway. This is something regulars will figure out on their own pretty quickly but tourists and occasional riders might forget and this could disrupt the flow of pedestrian traffic in high demand periods.

[zzptichka]

Train at 7:40. A bit crowded.



photo by @kevinodotnet

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Not operating in mixed traffic, no.

Comes down to how much priority people think cars should be given. TTC Streetcars operate in mixed traffic. And they have their semi-exclusive ROW on St. Clair. Something like that could be done on Rideau-Montreal. But absent that, simply removing on-street parking and putting on curbside diamond lanes would go a long way.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

We are creating a transit world where it will be quicker and easier to access the downtown core by transit from 20 and 25 km away, than it is to do so from 5km.

Welcome to transit planning in most cities. It's faster to get downtown from a lot of the 905 with GO, than the edges of Scarborough or North York with the TTC. And not by a little bit either....

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The neighbourhoods on either side of poorly-served Rideau have residential densities comparable to the area of the island of Montreal served by the metro. Vanier between the river and the cemetary is the next-highest residential density in the city,

Pockets of density don't a corridor make.

I agree that more investment is warranted. The assertion that this corridor needs grade-separated transit, is what I disagree with.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

and Montreal Road has all kinds of opportunities for re-development that will never be triggered by the absolutely trash transit service that has existed now for a decade.

Transit isn't an excuse. Compare Montreal Rd to Lawrence, York Mills or Ellesmere in Toronto. Or even now Kingston Rd. All those have developed or are developing with no more bus service than what Montreal Rd. has.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I'd like to meet that person.

All the folks on this forum who constantly cite Rideau-Montreal and forget that half of Montreal is not as dense and walkable as the Vanier bit.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by phil235

I disagree with this. Frequency is absolutely the key to increasing ridership and is as important in Toronto as it is in Ottawa. 10 minute frequencies is the sweet spot. At 10 minutes, people will just head out to a stop knowing a bus will be there in a reasonable time. Anything longer and the proposition changes. A canceled trip has you waiting around 30 minutes for a bus, which is longer that most people are prepared to wait.

In Toronto most of the buses that connect to subway stops in central areas have frequencies better than 15 minutes. My bus on Christie, a relatively low density central neighbourhood, ran every 8-10 minutes. Bathurst was even better.

I didn't say frequency wasn't necessary. I said it's not always been true everywhere in Toronto. And yet people took transit and transferred there when Toronto didn't have sub 10 min service everywhere.

I agree that Ottawa has to work on getting headways to under 10 mins on all feeder routes. But a lack of bus service, doesn't suddenly justify requiring massive investment to interline rail services. It just means you have to improve bus service.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Badyouken

So, I finally rode the LRT last night after spending the weekend in Montreal and riding the Metro there.

My first impressions are very positive:

- It feels like a metro.
- Very, very smooth.
- I don't understand the people who said the trains or platforms were narrow. It's all quite normal.
- The underground stations are beautiful. I'm a fan of Rideau's depth, Lyon's concourse, and Parliament's colourful ceilings.
- The overground stations also look great. Overkill from an engineering perspective at times (Cyrville?), but beautiful from a public space perspective. I'm glad they went that way.
- It's neat to see the train curve along the line.
- It instantly gives a very different, more urban feel to the city.
- The long escalator at Rideau did not feel that long, honestly.
- Ottawans are not always great at transit etiquette, but that'll come with time.
- The layout of the seating on the trains is a bit puzzling to me, but fine.

Overall this is a massive step up for the city, and I look forward to seeing the development around each station.

Agree with a lot of this.

My biggest disappointment has been the noise around curves. Not sure if this is a rail quality issue or the rolling stock. Even waiting for a train inside Parliament, it's loud. I feel like some of the volume could actually bust safe hearing limits. Dunno if noise dampening in the stations and onboard was considered.

On your point about Cyrville, I think people forget that they built a centre platform station and needed entrances on both sides of the road. From the inside of the station it doesn't look overbuilt, because both entrances lead to a single platform. It's still the smallest station on the line. The only way they could have cut back was building entrances on one side of the road. This would result in forcing residents from one side or workers from the other crossing a busy road (at rush). Having crossed over to walk to St. Laurent for months now, I don't think this is safe at all in the long run. They made the right choice with entrances on both sides of the street.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The real issue as I see it is the fact that Trillium terminates at Bayview. Had it gone across and ran along the current Rapibus corridor, nobody would be clamouring to have it run downtown. The complaints are partially the result of a dysfunctional regional transit policy.

The other half of the complaints comes from spoiled Ottawa residents used to one-seat rides who think transit is all about commuting to the core.

i agree with you 100% on the shortsightedness of terminating the Trillium line at Bayview. Connecting to Gatineau and the Rapidbus corridor or the old CPR ROW that served the Eddy plant and Scott Paper would have saved a lot of people at transfer.

Dysfunctional regional transit policy is why it has taken this long for LRT to be built. Prior Chair of RMOC Andrew Hayden was against LRT and in favour of expanding the transitway that failed to directly service denser nodes of the city. We have done this again in Stage 2 with the LRT routed along the river rather than along Carling from between Westboro and Lincoln Fields. The excuse was that it was too expensive to go along Carling, but we have caved to the NIMBY's and are going to build a tunnel/trench from Dominion to Lincoln Fields. Unfortunately that ship has now sailed.

We pick the cheaper routes but don't want to spend the money to do it correctly. The whole Trillium line is a case in point. It is one thing not to have double track, but is another to not show any commitment to a plan to double track additional portions of the line on an ongoing gradual basis.

[Truenorth00]

My observations this morning and weekend.

I actually saw people smiling at each other. Everyone is genuinely happy to be on the train.

Fast. I got from from my front door near Cyrville to street level outside Parliament station in half an hour. Rideau station would have been 20 mins. This is just a bit longer than driving off-peak. And definitely slower when considering parking at Rideau.

The etiquette thing is true. I saw people not waiting for other to get off, not standing on the right of the escalator and not giving up their seat in the designated section for stroller parking.

Disorientation. Knowing which exit to take and where to walk to take the bus after is going to take some time. I got to street level and was completely disoriented. Despite having walked all these intersections daily before.

Parliament station smells. At least at the Queen St. exit. Dunno what it is. But everyone gagged, scrunched their nose and moved quick after getting to the top of the escalator.

Buskers! There was a busker at Parliament playing the flute. Instant flashback to taking the TTC. Nice touch.....

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

i agree with you 100% on the shortsightedness of terminating the Trillium line at Bayview. Connecting to Gatineau and the Rapidbus corridor or the old CPR ROW that served the Eddy plant and Scott Paper would have saved a lot of people at transfer.

Dysfunctional regional transit policy is why it has taken this long for LRT to be built. Prior Chair of RMOC Andrew Hayden was against LRT and in favour of expanding the transitway that failed to directly service denser nodes of the city. We have done this again in Stage 2 with the LRT routed along the river rather than along Carling from between Westboro and Lincoln Fields. The excuse was that it was too expensive to go along Carling, but we have caved to the NIMBY's and are going to build a tunnel/trench from Dominion to Lincoln Fields. Unfortunately that ship has now sailed.

We pick the cheaper routes but don't want to spend the money to do it correctly. The whole Trillium line is a case in point. It is one thing not to have double track, but is another to not show any commitment to a plan to double track additional portions of the line on an ongoing gradual basis.

Carling wasn't just more expensive it is a shittier route. More circuitous and it takes service away from the density in Westboro and moves it to the strip malls and parking lots of Carling. I don't get why everyone thinks Carling was ever a logical choice.

[zzptichka]

Yeah, what's with the smells at some stations? I did not expect that. It's not new train kind of smell...

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Yeah, what's with the smells at some stations? I did not expect that. It's not new train kind of smell...

It's a new-to-toilet-training kind of smell

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Comes down to how much priority people think cars should be given. TTC Streetcars operate in mixed traffic. And they have their semi-exclusive ROW on St. Clair. Something like that could be done on Rideau-Montreal. But absent that, simply removing on-street parking and putting on curbside diamond lanes would go a long way.



Welcome to transit planning in most cities. It's faster to get downtown from a lot of the 905 with GO, than the edges of Scarborough or North York with the TTC. And not by a little bit either....




Pockets of density don't a corridor make.

I agree that more investment is warranted. The assertion that this corridor needs grade-separated transit, is what I disagree with.



Transit isn't an excuse. Compare Montreal Rd to Lawrence, York Mills or Ellesmere in Toronto. Or even now Kingston Rd. All those have developed or are developing with no more bus service than what Montreal Rd. has.




All the folks on this forum who constantly cite Rideau-Montreal and forget that half of Montreal is not as dense and walkable as the Vanier bit.

Though Montreal Rd. east of St. Laurent is arguably as dense and walkable as the vast majority of areas through which the existing Confederation Line, Trillium Line, and planned extensions will run.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

All the folks on this forum who constantly cite Rideau-Montreal and forget that half of Montreal is not as dense and walkable as the Vanier bit.

Never seen any evidence of those people's existence.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

My biggest disappointment has been the noise around curves. Not sure if this is a rail quality issue or the rolling stock. Even waiting for a train inside Parliament, it's loud.

I'd like to see an objective dB measurement comparing various systems. I've found so far the underground stations are quieter than any steel-wheeled underground station I've ever been in, and quieter than the rubber-tired Montreal metro.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Carling wasn't just more expensive it is a shittier route. More circuitous and it takes service away from the density in Westboro and moves it to the strip malls and parking lots of Carling. I don't get why everyone thinks Carling was ever a logical choice.

Is the river route any closer to the density of Westboro?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though Montreal Rd. east of St. Laurent is arguably as dense and walkable as the vast majority of areas through which the existing Confederation Line, Trillium Line, and planned extensions will run.

Denser, because squirrels at Hurdman don't take transit very much.