Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Three more rides today. Additional observations:

- smoooooooooth
- sitting next to the door, the open-air Pimisi really is open-air: it was very much the ambient temperature coming in through the doors.
- the Rideau-U of O curve is way subtler than it looks on the map
- Conversely, some of the east-of-river curves are sharper than they look, with necessary slowdowns. Future Ottawa needs to keep things as linear as possible.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

To be fair, I'm an urban resident and have used the train this weekend to meet friends for drinks, run errands, and go to my soccer game (out near St Laurent). I do not own a car (by choice) and my day to day so far has been vastly improved by the train. Especially given that my max wait time for a train so far has been 4 minutes, even last night at 1 am when I was heading home. I totally agree with you that better urban transit is needed (especially north south) but I think the system has value for people downtown, it does for me anyways.

Oh, it absolutely does. It could have had more, but that train left the station long before the first train left the station.

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by ars

The only thing that really sticks out like a sore thumb to me is the complete lack of rail access to Lansdowne. I would've loved to have taken the train from the Rideau Center all the way down to Lansdowne and I think the fact that there still is no plan to get the OTrain down there is a huge mistake.

The reason stage 1 and 2 are so cheap is that we're effectively taking the existing transitway, and putting rail there. It's dirt cheap. That's why the Orleans extension is 11 km and the Kanata extension is 12 km, but Kanata is literally twice as expensive. There is no existing transitway to Kanata, but there is one to Orleans/space in the municipally owned median of the 174.


Building LRT to Lansdowne would require a full on 3.5-4 km underground boring tunnel. You could probably cancel the entire 11 km Orleans extension, and still not have half the amount of money needed to go to Lansdowne. When you don't use an existing ROW/transitway, and want to go through an existing dense area, you have to tunnel. It's ridiculously expensive. Good luck convincing anyone in this city to cancel the Orleans, or Moodie or Kanata extension to pay for a 3-4 km line to Lansdowne.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

One thing that we need to teach Ottawa people is to hold the right side of the elevators to keep a space for people walking on the left side. Sooo frustrating ...

I've been saying this for a while now. Ottawans don't seem to understand very basic transit etiquette.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've been saying this for a while now. Ottawans don't seem to understand very basic transit etiquette.

I read an article about a study done recently, I think in London at the tube stations but I might be wrong. They compared the amount of people an escalator can handle per hour if people simply stand side by side VS some standing on right while others walk up on the left. Surprisingly, standing side by side results in more capacity per hour!

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by Radster

I read an article about a study done recently, I think in London at the tube stations but I might be wrong. They compared the amount of people an escalator can handle per hour if people simply stand side by side VS some standing on right while others walk up on the left. Surprisingly, standing side by side results in more capacity per hour!

Can confirm that I also read that.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I noted that too.

I remember the first time I saw this (probably Munich or Singapore) and was so blown away by the simplicity of it.

Of course, it only works if the trains stop in the same spot every time. That's why I think it was Munich or Singapore, not some freedom loving place like Sydney or Toronto. There, the drivers are too individualistic to be ruled by an exact stopping point!

Therein lies the problem (sort of). The doors on the 2 central modules of the train won't always line-up in the same position because of the different door configuration. The Long Centre module only has 1 door, while the Intermediate module has 2 doors. Only the doors on the front and rear cabs of the train will line-up in the same place.

[jchilds72]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I've been saying this for a while now. Ottawans don't seem to understand very basic transit etiquette.

Worst example I ever saw was one woman who stopped to service her phone when it dinged. In the single working doorway of the Rideau Centre entrance (construction and pending repairs had closed the others) on the direct path between Mackenzie King and Rideau St. during the Afternoon peak period. She managed to block all foot traffic in both directions at once.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Three more rides today. Additional observations:

- smoooooooooth
- sitting next to the door, the open-air Pimisi really is open-air: it was very much the ambient temperature coming in through the doors.
- the Rideau-U of O curve is way subtler than it looks on the map
- Conversely, some of the east-of-river curves are sharper than they look, with necessary slowdowns. Future Ottawa needs to keep things as linear as possible.

Those curves. I could hear and feel them eating away the wheels... I bet most of the wear and tear will come from those turns around Hurdman.

[zzptichka]

What's with those station attendants blowing their whistles on stations?
Are they making sure all doors have been closed?
I sure hope they will go away soon.

[Norman Bates]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What's with those station attendants blowing their whistles on stations?
Are they making sure all doors have been closed?
I sure hope they will go away soon.

Noticed that as well. Are there some sensors or other technology not working at this time?

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Norman Bates

Noticed that as well. Are there some sensors or other technology not working at this time?

I remember there were some issues with doors not closing or opening. Could be it.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And we've rule out, in order:

- LRT that directly serves much of the urban core outside the office downtown and U of O;
- surface LRT (i.e., streetcar) to serve the forgotten northeast corner of the urban core along Rideau-Montreal;
- more time and space devoted to bus transit and bus transit priority along traditional urban main streets such as Rideau-Montreal, Bank, Elgin, Bronson, and Main.

So, having ruled out any form of urban higher-order transit, any form of non-segregated rail transit, and any improvement to local bus service, what's left on the table to meet urban Ottawa transit needs?

Nothing. Literally nothing.

I agree some higher order transit to the NE should be built, but given that:

a) a tunnel under Rideau/Montreal Rd would be fantastically expensive; and
b) the roads aren't wide enough to have LRT in a dedicated ROW...

What about surface LRT in the median of St. Laurent, like this?

I envision that this would run from St-Laurent station to either Montreal Rd or Hemlock, and terminate in Wateridge.

[RomanR27]

Rode end-to-end today, one thing I noticed is that when a train is at the station the display said "1 min" and didn't flash until the doors had closed. I feel like it should flash as the train is pulling in/boarding?

[Baybreeze12]

When I rode yesterday the door got stuck opening at Lees, and an attendant on the train had to give it a hefty shove. He seemed like he knew it was a common occurance.

I thought those issues were fixed?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

I agree some higher order transit to the NE should be built, but given that:

a) a tunnel under Rideau/Montreal Rd would be fantastically expensive; and
b) the roads aren't wide enough to have LRT in a dedicated ROW...

What about surface LRT in the median of St. Laurent, like this?

I envision that this would run from St-Laurent station to either Montreal Rd or Hemlock, and terminate in Wateridge.

That would be almost completely useless.

[mykl]

Got out to ride again today and wandered around some of the stations. I love it! As someone who lives downtown and works at Blair, this thing is a dream! The scale is great, the stations are extremely intuitive, the art is lovely. We'll see how full the trains are at rush hour. But this is a big step for Ottawa, and stage 2 will really kick things into high gear!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by k.evans

Maybe. Maybe not. I wouldn't make such definitive statements without actually seeing any studies or numbers. My point was that our train primarily doesn't serve anyone or anything. Let's not forget, the Confederation Line will be fed constantly by busses at its terminuses after all the cross-town routes are removed. I would be curious to see how busy the line would be without the force-fed routes as many of the stations are probably not going to be that busy as they don't serve places of work or places where people live and can easily access the LRT. Maybe quality/location over quantity was my point.

This topic underlies the tension seen in this forum a lot: what is the point of the LRT system? Is it to serve the suburbs as quickly and cheaply as possible? Or should it serve the densest parts of the city proper first and act as a catalyst for further and denser development?

I come out on the side of the city proper. Is my suggestion the best option? Maybe not. What I do know is that I couldn't care less about what Barrhaven, Kanata, or Orleans want or think they deserve. If the balancing act you chose was the time/money wasted in a long commute in order to get a (cheaply built) semi-detached Claridge house with a postage stamp yard, in the name of having 'low taxes', then that's your problem. The rest of the city shouldn't subsidize their wastefulness or encourage more sprawl. Those times are done. Time for Ottawa and Canada to move into 21st Century city planning.

Regardless, the O-Train expansion will change many things about Ottawa, most likely for the better. Does it align with my own personal views? No. But then again, I am not paid the big bucks to make those decisions for the city. Time will tell.

There is an asses-in-seats problem here. A suburban park and ride is not elegant, but is a reasonably efficient way to put asses in seats. There are a few pockets of density here and there in "urban" Ottawa, but there is no corridor with any density nearly high enough to make a mass transit system look reasonably busy. Even in much larger, much denser cities, most residential neighbourhoods are served by buses (or in some cases legacy streetcar services), and those that have metro service have it more by happenstance (the neighbourhood happened to be on the way) rather than any specific plan to serve that neighbourhood.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is a big difference between commuters from Oakville and those living in Toronto inner city neighbourhoods. There are always limits on the distance people are willing or able to walk.

What's the difference? When you get off the GO Train or subway and have to cover anything within a 10-15 min radius of Union station you walk. Everybody in Toronto does this. I don't know anybody who waits for a bus or a streetcar.

And while in university I had friends who would walk from Union to the U of T or Ryerson campus instead of spending the extra token, if they were 905ers. Only us Toronto kids took the subway to campus.

Like I said, you have a tourist's perspective. Not that of a Torontonian.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is not the transfer per se. It is the transfer in combination with poor bus frequency. The frustration of taking the Confederation Line one or two stops and then have to transfer to a bus that runs every half hour. We shouldn't be inflicting this kind of thing on inner neighbourhoods.

Nobody in Toronto would have any sympathy for this. My university commute was based on a bus that ran every 15 min at peak, to the SRT to the Bloor-Danforth subway to the Yonge subway. My mother did the same for her written commute.

Toronto buses have gotten better. And most routes are now FS (Frequent Service = under 10 mins) at rush. But even then a good chunk of Scarborough puts up with two rail transfers on top of the bus transfer. On a line (SRT) that has 3x the daily ridership of the Trillium Line.

The real issue as I see it is the fact that Trillium terminates at Bayview. Had it gone across and ran along the current Rapibus corridor, nobody would be clamouring to have it run downtown. The complaints are partially the result of a dysfunctional regional transit policy.

The other half of the complaints comes from spoiled Ottawa residents used to one-seat rides who think transit is all about commuting to the core.