Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[OTownandDown]

Ok yes, that is the story, you're right. Its not that the design didn't work, its that the wood was ruined, so what's the point using some other wood?

Too bad the configuration of the wood panelling and lighting installed was not quite the same. i think this really comes through in photos, but will be quite different when you're actually standing inside the station.

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Nope.... J.OT13 has it - the ash stock was ruined by (either RTG's or City's) subcontractor hired to fire-treat it.
I recall reading somewhere that just enough was recovered to finish the insides of the Belfast Rd. O-Train Ops Centre.

RTG sourced some replacement stocks for some areas of some stations, at a cost. I think they really did try.

A sad day.

Edit..... I may have mis-interpreted your intended comment target.
If you were referencing the wood - my comment stands.
But - If you were referencing the replacement materials and qualities - my bad, and you stand.
Thanks.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Except that they aren't just talking about going to Eagleson. That might be defensible. Once you start talking about serving Stittsville with LRT, that means extensions beyond Terry Fox.

As I have said before, I am opposed to extending beyond Terry Fox, but you are correct and there are plans to extend the line to the boundary between Kanata and Stittsville. Regarless, the final part of that extension won't help Carp though as it the line will be heading South after the proposed Campeau Station.

It isn't feasible to compare travel times to Carp, as it currently doesn't have peak period service (just one shopping bus a week), but if you look at Stittsville service, the 261, it is scheduled to take up to 40 minutes (usually less) to get from Huntmar/Palladium (near the CTC) to Slater/Bank (about 5 minutes more than from Eagleson). I can't imagine the train doing much better with 4 stops in between.

Your claim of sprawl due to shorter travel times are based on assumptions without any facts to back you up. I am not saying sprawl won't happen , but extending the Confederation Line won't have the effect you are claiming. If you want to see the real culprit, look at the 10 lane highway through the green belt, out to Kanata.

[swimmer_spe]

With the opening happening before the federal election, when do you think they will announce Phase 2?

[corynv]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

With the opening happening before the federal election, when do you think they will announce Phase 2?

what do you mean by announce? They've already started construction on phase 2.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by corynv

what do you mean by announce? They've already started construction on phase 2.

Oh, I did not know that.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by corynv

what do you mean by announce? They've already started construction on phase 2.

When did a small detail like that ever stop a politician?

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

With the opening happening before the federal election, when do you think they will announce Phase 2?

Well, the city "announced" the project as we know it back in 2017 (with all the new changes). The preferred proponents were announced back in February. City council approved the stage 2 project 6 months ago. Construction on phase 2 started roughly 4-5 months ago. I don't think there's anything left to announce. Other than upcoming construction activities or required detours.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

On a completely unrelated topic, apparently Winners is being linked into Parliament station. Went in there today and the construction to open up the wall at the bottom of the escalators was well underway

I peeked through the Parliament Station entrance this evening and if you bend down low enough, you can see that there is already a sign for Winners on the LRT station side of those doors. I expect it will be ready for opening day.

[rocketphish]

City looking for answers why LRT transmitters turned off, beefs up data monitoring

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 6, 2019

Transit staff on Thursday continued to search for reasons why three data transmitters in the LRT tunnel suddenly shut off early Wednesday, leading to a shutdown of a large section of the rail system.

It will not stop the city from opening the LRT system on Sept. 14, transportation GM John Manconi said during a press briefing at city hall.

The city called the briefing to provide more information about what happened Wednesday when three trains stopped in the tunnel and the LRT system between Tunney’s Pasture and Hurdman stations stopped running.

“I’m not here to defend it. I’m here to explain it,” Manconi told reporters.

According to Manconi, at 3 a.m. Wednesday something caused the radio transmitters to trip into the off position. He described the transmitters as similar to Wi-Fi boxes in homes. In this case, the devices transmit information to the master system computer about train locations and they’re located across the entire 12.5-kilometre rail line.

At 4 a.m., the city started the daily train launch from the storage facility. Two low-speed “sweep trains” stopped in the tunnel just west of Rideau Station. The sweep trains, which are part of the regular fleet, are the first trains launched each day to make sure service is running smoothly.

Manconi said a third train was sent into the tunnel where the two sweep trains were stopped to determine if it was a train problem or a train-control problem.



Two of the trains were intentionally moved to Tunney’s Pasture and one was deployed to the eastern leg. None of the trains was towed, Manconi said.

“The trains, contrary to what some people were reporting, were not stuck in the tunnel. They did exactly what they’re designed to do,” Manconi said. “The systems worked the way they were intended. They default to stop whenever there is any issue and in this case they lost communications … so they immediately went to the stop position.”

Technicians and engineers were investigating the cause of the problem from the get-go, Manconi said.

Around the lunch hour Wednesday, a technician examined a data log that tracks alarms on the LRT system and discovered the three tripped transmitters. The transmitters were reset and everything was working again within minutes, Manconi said. It took until 2 p.m. to have service fully restored because the city had to send sweep trains on the line and staff had to make sure everything was back to normal.

Manconi said the data log had been checked Wednesday morning, but staff didn’t go back far enough into the early morning hours to notice the tripped transmitters.

The incident has prompted an immediate process change. The data log had been monitored “intermittently” and it’s now being monitored 24/7, Manconi said.

“You learn and grow from these situations and that’s why we’re doing these practice drills and that’s why we’re doing all of these exercises,” Manconi said.

There was no damage to infrastructure.

There was no evidence of a lightning strike, although staff are seeing if the Wednesday morning thunderstorm caused the tripped transmitters.

The stoppage gave the city the chance to test all the customer notification equipment, like signs and announcements, that tell people when the train isn’t in service, Manconi said.

Trains stopped running between Tunney’s Pasture and Hurdman stations, but service between Hurdman and Blair stations was running fine all day.

Manconi said that if there were passengers aboard the stopped trains in the tunnel, the trains would have been moved to the next closest station and the passengers could get off to choose another transportation option. No passenger would be left for 10 hours stranded in a train, he said.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ters-turned-off-beefs-up-data-monitoring

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on the original plans for the WEP, the complex might have been built with the idea of an underground connection to a transit line under Albert, where the bus tunnel was planned at the time (twin tunnels under Albert and Slater). I did not know the receiving area is along the north side.

I think this was discussed in the press a few years ago but I can't find the link. I think the upshot was the configuration of the garage made a connection impossible (or at least prohibitively expensive).

[acottawa]

If they are going to all the expense of paying mostly-redundant operators, Why is there not some sort of manual-operation backup (even at lower speeds or reduced capacity)?

[OTownandDown]

LOL, it just dawned on me, this problem with the transmitters is just like an IT guy (for those who've watched 'The IT Crowd')

"So your computer screen is blank?
Look at your computer. Are you looking at it?
There's a small button on the front. Do you see the button?
Ok now push the button. Did you push it?
Ok so what's happening now?
Oh, so now you've turned it on?
Ok bye."

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

If they are going to all the expense of paying mostly-redundant operators, Why is there not some sort of manual-operation backup (even at lower speeds or reduced capacity)?

There is. And that's what they used to drive the two trains to Tunney's once the ATO shut-down.

The issue is that we don't have a backup to the Communications Based Train Control system. If a few of the transmitters go down, we can't know the positioning of trains all the time, regardless of the trains' setting (auto or manual). It' safe to park the trains down the line but not to run service, regular or reduced.

In order to continue service, we would have to also install an ancient Moving Block system, but that's not worth the cost for a few times a year.

[lrt's friend]

The alternate plan for service, to bike (no good if you don't have a bike with you or its winter), Uber (they will never be able to handle the volume and they will gouge the public) and to walk (not so good if you have to walk several kms). There is no way, OC will be able to provide adequate back up bus service to replace Hurdman to Tunney's, ie the whole downtown area. It is disturbing that they plan to cut service on the few remaining downtown bus routes. I have commented before about the lack of redundancy and the fact that this starter route has to serve almost the entire city. There is good chance that this will come back and bite the city.

It won't take many 10 hour (or even two hour) outages to cause outrage with the public and of course, the media.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There is. And that's what they used to drive the two trains to Tunney's once the ATO shut-down.

The issue is that we don't have a backup to the Communications Based Train Control system. If a few of the transmitters go down, we can't know the positioning of trains all the time, regardless of the trains' setting (auto or manual). It' safe to park the trains down the line but not to run service, regular or reduced.

In order to continue service, we would have to also install an ancient Moving Block system, but that's not worth the cost for a few times a year.

Not necessarily, Edmonton ran on visual only mode for a while with their signalling hell. We could do the same, these are streetcar based trains after all and they can run without any signalling at all. We'd just have to run at a much reduced speed on full manual, which is better than nothing.

In this case, because there was no passengers it made sense to take the time to fully investigate. I don't think they would have waited so long after reset if it was an actual service day.

[Richard Eade]

The spin on the trains not running on Wednesday is amazing.

• The magnitude of the problem is disturbing – with THREE critical transmitters shutting down. If one unit turned OFF, then it could be a faulty unit – but three units indicates that there is a design flaw in the equipment. If the shut-down was because of a voltage bump or dip, the units should have recovered, gracefully, to a known, recognizable, state – similar to flashing signal lights at a road intersection – if they could not reliably power-up to a ready state. And why would critical hardware be so susceptible to power fluctuations? I had a VCR once that would reset every time there was the slightest ripple on the power-line. I put it on a small UPS and the problem was solved. Why is this critical system not running on ‘conditioned’, battery-backed-up, power?

• The three transmitters turned OFF at 03:00; but no-one noticed because the Alarm Log was only occasionally looked at. Apparently now they are going to have alarms monitored 24/7 (probably by being displayed up on a screen in the Control Centre). If these are critical pieces of hardware, then why does there appear to be no ‘heart-beat’ monitor that immediately sounds an audible alarm if the connection is lost?

• Someone finally looked at the log in the morning; but they didn’t look back far enough. This does not instill confidence in the abilities of the trouble-shooters working there. Wouldn’t it have made sense to look back to when the trains were last known to be running correctly – i.e., when the last train successfully went through the tunnel? Are these Alarm Logs so large that they are much too onerous to go through? If so, why are there so many alarms? If there are that many alarms, then displaying them constantly will mean that they will soon be ignored.

• The problem of the three OFF transmitters was finally found in the Alarm Log ‘around noon’ and it took only minutes to reset the hardware. Yet, it took until 14:30 before the slow-sweep trains and tests were complete. This implies that if there is a next-time, it will still take about two and a half hours to get trains running after the problem is found and corrected.

• This ‘triple problem’ happened in the tunnel (which should have been the area most protected from the storm and its associated lightening), so why were the trains limited in the west to Lees Station and not uOttawa Station? A fault anywhere in the line might take out a small section, but the stations closest to the fault should still be usable – i.e., the out of service section should be the shortest length possible.

• If trains could be driven through the tunnel in Manual Mode, why didn’t they run several trains through the tunnel in Manual Mode and then run a short service in the western portion of the line? As I mentioned above, the disruption should be the minimum possible. For example, if Parliament Station is out of service, then trains should still be running between Tunney’s to Lyon stations and between Rideau and Blair stations. The ability to run service on most of the line, surgically removing a small segment, will be key to maintaining transit service – since we will not have enough buses or Operators to run a service completely replacing the trains.

In my view, this was a major FAIL. The system might have performed as designed, but it certainly did not perform as needed.

[corynv]

I'm trying to find a gif/video of the LRvs working in the winter, the specific one i'm remembering was near Bayview (i think) and it was snowing, wit the time looking like it was in the evening (light-level was starting to go down, much more than just snow clouds blocking out light). IF anyone does remember that, no know of a place to look do let me know.

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by corynv

I'm trying to find a gif/video of the LRvs working in the winter, the specific one i'm remembering was near Bayview (i think) and it was snowing, wit the time looking like it was in the evening (light-level was starting to go down, much more than just snow clouds blocking out light). IF anyone does remember that, no know of a place to look do let me know.

This? https://twitter.com/drivesincircles/status/1168183024497901569

[Corvulpes]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

• This ‘triple problem’ happened in the tunnel (which should have been the area most protected from the storm and its associated lightening), so why were the trains limited in the west to Lees Station and not uOttawa Station? A fault anywhere in the line might take out a small section, but the stations closest to the fault should still be usable – i.e., the out of service section should be the shortest length possible.

• If trains could be driven through the tunnel in Manual Mode, why didn’t they run several trains through the tunnel in Manual Mode and then run a short service in the western portion of the line? As I mentioned above, the disruption should be the minimum possible. For example, if Parliament Station is out of service, then trains should still be running between Tunney’s to Lyon stations and between Rideau and Blair stations. The ability to run service on most of the line, surgically removing a small segment, will be key to maintaining transit service – since we will not have enough buses or Operators to run a service completely replacing the trains.

-From the east, the nearest switchset to the tunnel allowing you to turn back without entering the tunnel is between Tremblay and Hurdman.
-There is no way to run a loop from the west unless you can get to Parliament at minimum. You need 2 switch sets.

[jchilds72]

The mayor is giving away some weekend passes for LRT launch, according to the news and his Twitter.