Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Arguably Phase 3 should be scaled back and more emphasis placed on suburban and urban BRT and transitways.

But I'm also fundamentally of the opinion that in the long term, Ottawa should aim to have the Trillium line converted to the confed. Line specs, but in doing so consume the Southeast transitway south of Heron. North of Heron stretch of transitway remains in use for urban brt connections. And the airport rail link can be accomplished with light heavy rail commuter service, and can terminate at the rail station- it's still a 1 transfer ride to dt. This can form the basis of some kind of Ontario northland regional rail service. "GO Ottawa Valley.

The needs of travel are always regional in nature.
BRT I think is still the future of urban transit at a large scale. Especially as we will start to see the examples of 'autonomous-electric' brt.

BRT is not and never will be an effective substitute for actual rapid transit in urban areas. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but the fact is, people are way more likely to stand on a train than sit on a bus. There are numerous studies on this. City streets aren't designed to handle hundreds of buses every hour— hence why you get thrown off your seat on Albert and Slater. Besides, trains are still cheaper than buses due to lower labour costs.

I do agree tho that the southeast transitway will probably be sufficient for the coming decades, seeing as how the areas it serves is very suburban.

[Corvulpes]

Originally Posted by pattherat

He probably doesn’t know, since he’s probably just a guy who listens on the radio frequency. I would say Ken Woods on Twitter would be a better source. (Has a picture of his ERO badge on his feed so you know he is actually on the tracks in the vehicles)

Not exactly, but I do share information which is available to anyone who would listen to the radio. For example, Ken Woods was an operator, but is not anymore. But you could still hear him on the radio in his new position at the control center, if you listen.

Another example: there was a very major system defect preventing train movement from Lees to Tunneys for several hours today. A few trains still moved from Blair to Hurdman. (You could also have witnessed this in person from observing the guideway.)

Similarly, they did an evacuation drill outside of Hurdman today with about 40 people.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Thank God we didn’t build in express capacity. People would be planning on living in Arnprior and driving to Kanata to start their commutes!

We’ll see how it turns out. But I’m fairly confident that end-to-end a lot of western suburban commuters will see some time savings. And even if it’s 10 mins, that’s 10 mins further that you can live. It’s difference between buying in Stittsville or buying in Carp. Likewise, it’s the difference between Barrhaven and Manotick. Had this been countered with zoned fares, it would have been less of an issue.

The completion of the station at Trim, will be quite revealing. If we see Rockland take off, we’ll have first-hand evidence of how transit induced sprawl is going to happen in the west after Stage 3.

I can't see how and extension to Eagleson would provide anywhere close to 10 minutes savings. Just look at the schedule for route 265. It currently takes about 35 minutes to get from Eagleson 2A to Slater/Bank. Talking to the Stage 2 team, I was told via email that they expect Moodie Station to Parliament Station will take approximately 30 minutes, which is only 5 minutes less and you still have to get from Eagleson to Moodie. As a result, the time savings will be about 2 minutes, if we are lucky.

The real time savings will be with on the rapid routes, which stop at every stop, the same way the trains will, but most people use the fastest bus available to them. It is actually pretty good that the train will give us express bus speed for stopping bus service.

Of course time savings isn't why we should do this. As I said before, an extension to Kanata will significantly reduce the number of vehicles driving along the Queensway through the Greenbelt.

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

Not exactly, but I do share information which is available to anyone who would listen to the radio. For example, Ken Woods was an operator, but is not anymore. But you could still hear him on the radio in his new position at the control center, if you listen.

Another example: there was a very major system defect preventing train movement from Lees to Tunneys for several hours today. A few trains still moved from Blair to Hurdman. (You could also have witnessed this in person from observing the guideway.)

Similarly, they did an evacuation drill outside of Hurdman today with about 40 people.

As I replied to you before, you are wrong on Ken: https://twitter.com/drivesincircles/status/1164587236312133633?s=20

He is both.

Actually involved in the testing and driving of the system. Listening by radio does not give the whole picture and little awareness of what are drills and what are real issues.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I can't see how and extension to Eagleson would provide anywhere close to 10 minutes savings. Just look at the schedule for route 265. It currently takes about 35 minutes to get from Eagleson 2A to Slater/Bank. Talking to the Stage 2 team, I was told via email that they expect Moodie Station to Parliament Station will take approximately 30 minutes, which is only 5 minutes less and you still have to get from Eagleson to Moodie. As a result, the time savings will be about 2 minutes, if we are lucky.

Except that they aren't just talking about going to Eagleson. That might be defensible. Once you start talking about serving Stittsville with LRT, that means extensions beyond Terry Fox.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Of course time savings isn't why we should do this. As I said before, an extension to Kanata will significantly reduce the number of vehicles driving along the Queensway through the Greenbelt.

All you're doing is pushing traffic out. Instead of getting absolutely jammed up from Terry Fox. It'll now be jammed up from Carp Rd at peak, because living in Carp and Stittsville will be a lot more convenient. The thing is, unless you have both adults in the family taking transit, the usual result of transit extensions in these low density suburbs is further sprawl and more folks driving, because transit usage is limited to part of the household and mostly only for employment.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

BRT is not and never will be an effective substitute for actual rapid transit in urban areas. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want, but the fact is, people are way more likely to stand on a train than sit on a bus. There are numerous studies on this. City streets aren't designed to handle hundreds of buses every hour— hence why you get thrown off your seat on Albert and Slater.

Ottawa had great transit modal share for all these years using just BRT. So I really wouldn't knock it. BRT works. Especially if it's part of a network feeding rail.

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Besides, trains are still cheaper than buses due to lower labour costs.

Are we just going to ignore the several orders of magnitude difference in capital costs?

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

I do agree tho that the southeast transitway will probably be sufficient for the coming decades, seeing as how the areas it serves is very suburban.

A perfect example of what I meant above. It's a short ride and can effectively feed the Confederation Line.

[Corvulpes]

Originally Posted by pattherat

As I replied to you before, you are wrong on Ken: https://twitter.com/drivesincircles/status/1164587236312133633?s=20

He is both.

Actually involved in the testing and driving of the system. Listening by radio does not give the whole picture and little awareness of what are drills and what are real issues.

Again, wrong. Having certification as an ERO doesn't mean you are working as one. Many have moved on to other positions, including Ken. Months ago.

I don't listen on the radio. I know what are drills and what are real issues.

Edit: As I said, not a drill.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2019/9/4/1_4577982.html

[pattherat]

Originally Posted by Corvulpes

Again, wrong. Having certification as an ERO doesn't mean you are working as one. Many have moved on to other positions, including Ken. Months ago.

I don't listen on the radio. I know what are drills and what are real issues.

Edit: As I said, not a drill.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/ottawa/2019/9/4/1_4577982.html

Read his threads. He replies to people saying he drives too...

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

They still have open top roofline structures, and protective blue film on the sides of the noses.

EnJoy!

Man would it be satisfying to peel off that film!

x 1000

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Quick comparison of the Lyon Station concourse rendering vs. reality.


https://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/the-build/lyon/gallery/#jp-carousel-13771


https://www.otrainfans.ca/forum/gallery/image/94-lyon-station-concourse/?context=new

Close, but something went horribly wrong with the ceiling!!

Still a very impressive space, but I wonder if the destruction of the wood salvaged from the dead ash trees contributed to the value-engineered ceilings, particularly at the Lyon and Rideau caverns.

I had the opportunity to see inside Lyon station a while back. Having seen similar pics of the ceiling before, I was expecting it to look like 🞵🞵🞵🞵, In reality. it looks much better than the pictures - there's textures on the panels that are making the photos look very weird. It's not what it could have been with the ash, but it's not bad at all.

[rocketphish]

LRT system temporarily conks out, city says 'radio units' needed resetting

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: September 4, 2019

The Confederation Line LRT conked out for most of the day Wednesday because of what appears to be a technical issue.

According to a written statement from transit operations director Troy Charter, “three radio units that are part of the control system needed to be reset” and three trains stopped in the tunnel “as per protocols.”

Two of the trains were taken to Tunney’s Pasture, Charter said. The third train returned to operations in the east end until radios were reset.

It was around 4:30 a.m. that the transit operations control centre discovered that the radio units that communicate train locations in the western leg of the rail line had been tripped to the off position, Charter said.

Trains were not running between Tunney’s Pasture and Hurdman stations, but service continued between Hurdman and Blair stations, he said.

“The cause of the radio shutdown is under investigation with one possible cause being (the overnight) thunderstorm,” Charter said.

The LRT system is supposed to open to the public on Sept. 14.

According to Charter, “OC Transpo continues to work towards a Sept. 14 launch.”
The city only received the $2.1-billion LRT system from builder Rideau Transit Group (RTG) last Friday. The original handover deadline was May 24, 2018, but RTG needed 15 more months to finish the job.
The maintenance arm of RTG, Rideau Transit Maintenance, is contracted to take care of the LRT system for 30 years.

The finance and economic development committee is scheduled to receive an update on the LRT project on Tuesday before the big Sept. 14 launch. It could be the last time council members will be able to ask about the transit system in a public forum before paying passengers board the trains.

Transpo plans to run a parallel bus service during the first three weeks of LRT so customers can get used to the train system. It could also be a chance for Transpo to work out any final kinks on the LRT system before taking the extra buses off the road.

Some LRT glitches along the way

Derailments: The first derailment occurred on May 3. A two-car train went off the tracks less than 100 metres from the Belfast Road train yard. The general manager of RTG said it was a “perfectly normal” occurrence. The second, on June 24, was a “minor incident involving a train’s wheels coming off the rails in the (Belfast) yard.”

Door and brake issues: The two big technical problems related to the brakes and door system. With the brakes, five pieces of valve hardware on each vehicle needed to be tested, and if necessary, swapped out. There were also glitches with door sensors that dictate how the doors react, such as when they close on an object.

Winter ready: A Feb. 7 report “expressed concern on the effectiveness of switch heaters to prevent ice and snow from building up and immobilizing the switch points and switch rods” that ultimately guide trains between sets of tracks. The city said winter operations would be enhanced and more resources dedicated to winter maintenance.

With files from Luke Carroll

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...t-city-says-radio-units-needed-resetting

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Man would it be satisfying to peel off that film!

x 1000

Is that an ASMR thing?

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

Man would it be satisfying to peel off that film!

x 1000

It would be so satisfying to slowly peel it off the train.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I had the opportunity to see inside Lyon station a while back. Having seen similar pics of the ceiling before, I was expecting it to look like 🞵🞵🞵🞵. In reality. it looks much better than the pictures - there's textures on the panels that are making the photos look very weird. It's not what it could have been with the ash, but it's not bad at all.

I am really curious if they are going to replace those ceiling panels with the originally planned materials at some point.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I am really curious if they are going to replace those ceiling panels with the originally planned materials at some point.

Maybe in 30 years when stations require major renovations.

I certainly hope some sort of penalty was issued to RTG for not delivering on the promised designs and materials. They were able to install a product of equal quality at above ground stations and subway entrances, why not for the Lyon and Rideau concourses?

What are those panels made of anyway?

[TheMatth69]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Maybe in 30 years when stations require major renovations.

I certainly hope some sort of penalty was issued to RTG for not delivering on the promised designs and materials. They were able to install a product of equal quality at above ground stations and subway entrances, why not for the Lyon and Rideau concourses?

What are those panels made of anyway?

No penalty will be held on RTG, simply because renders are only designs made to give you an idea of what the station (in this case) will be. They do not contractually have any meaning. Most of the time reality differs from renders because some material are to expensive or hard to get and install. Sometimes it's related to safty, the architect may find that a material is too flammable for exemple and has to be replaced with a lesser flammable one.
Most of today's architect renders are made with softwares like Sketchup-Pro coupled with very powerful rendering softwares... But at the end of the line a render is still a render. And in our case the reality is still very very close to the renders.
And to answers your question the skeleton of the panels are probably made in with PVC and layered with "Wood Tape", the same material used to imitate wood in things like Ikea Tables (cheap tables), fake wood floors or ceilings.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TheMatth69

No penalty will be held on RTG, simply because renders are only designs made to give you an idea of what the station (in this case) will be. They do not contractually have any meaning. Most of the time reality differs from renders because some material are to expensive or hard to get and install. Sometimes it's related to safty, the architect may find that a material is too flammable for exemple and has to be replaced with a lesser flammable one.
Most of today's architect renders are made with softwares like Sketchup-Pro coupled with very powerful rendering softwares... But at the end of the line a render is still a render. And in our case the reality is still very very close to the renders.
And to answers your question the skeleton of the panels are probably made in with PVC and layered with "Wood Tape", the same material used to imitate wood in things like Ikea Tables (cheap tables), fake wood floors or ceilings.

I see your point about the renderings, but the material, the salvaged Ash tree wood, I'm pretty sure was in the contract. RTG destroyed the wood when applying the fire retardant. They pulled a Phoenix Pay System: instead of testing the treatment on a few samples to make sure it works, they rolled out the treatment on the entire stock.

If that's the material they used, it's going to start to peel off and look like 🞵🞵🞵🞵 in a few years.

[OTownandDown]

I thought I had read somewhere that the panels were manufactured, or a mockup was built with the wood in the style of the renders, and then nothing actually worked out, or there were some other issues, and the entire thing was scrapped.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

I thought I had read somewhere that the panels were manufactured, or a mockup was built with the wood in the style of the renders, and then nothing actually worked out, or there were some other issues, and the entire thing was scrapped.

Good Day.

Nope.... J.OT13 has it - the ash stock was ruined by (either RTG's or City's) subcontractor hired to fire-treat it.
I recall reading somewhere that just enough was recovered to finish the insides of the Belfast Rd. O-Train Ops Centre.

RTG sourced some replacement stocks for some areas of some stations, at a cost. I think they really did try.

A sad day.

Edit..... I may have mis-interpreted your intended comment target.
If you were referencing the wood - my comment stands.
But - If you were referencing the replacement materials and qualities - my bad, and you stand.
Thanks.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day.

Nope.... J.OT13 has it - the ash stock was ruined by (either RTG's or City's) subcontractor hired to fire-treat it.
I recall reading somewhere that just enough was recovered to finish the insides of the Belfast Rd. O-Train Ops Centre.

RTG sourced some replacement stocks for some areas of some stations, at a cost. I think they really did try.

A sad day.

Too bad the little bit that was salvaged will never be on public display.