Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[harls]

Even with the 50 completed, how many Gatineau people still prefer to take the 417 to Montreal? I know I've done the 50 many times, but for the average person who isn't a roadgeek, they still may look at it as unsafe with its majority two lanes.. even if the travel time between the two highways is negligible.

This is even more pronounced in the winter months when we can get some pretty good blasts of snow.

edit - I'm sure once the 50 is four-laned the entire length, you will get a LOT more people using it as the de facto route between Gatineau and Montreal.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

For accuracy's sake, it would be important to note that only 100km of highway have been built in the past 25 years, 26 if which were built in the major urban centers, though their population grew by 1.5 million.

Sure, but given the density of their network built during the 60s, there hasn't need for a ton of new highway construction.

http://goo.gl/maps/1Pil2

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Even with the 50 completed, how many Gatineau people still prefer to take the 417 to Montreal? I know I've done the 50 many times, but for the average person who isn't a roadgeek, they still may look at it as unsafe with its majority two lanes.. even if the travel time between the two highways is negligible.

This is even more pronounced in the winter months when we can get some pretty good blasts of snow.

edit - I'm sure once the 50 is four-laned the entire length, you will get a LOT more people using it as the de facto route between Gatineau and Montreal.

Half of the population or more of the urban Outaouais lives east of the Gatineau River. Most everyone I know from this area uses the A-50 to go to Montreal unless they are going to western part of the island or have a stop to make in Ottawa.

I suspect the A-50 is now the main route to Montreal overall from the Gatineau area by now.

There is a lot of traffic and stoplights to get to the 417 from the Quebec side from any of the bridges these days.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

It's actually about 2800 trips.

You can find the survey here: http://www.ncr-trans-rcn.ca/surveys/o-d-survey/o-d-survey-2011/

Oops, I just double-checked my numbers and I must have made some serious mistake: there are 6 800 rush-hour trips from Gatineau to non-core Ottawa or elsewhere.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Oops, I just double-checked my numbers and I must have made some serious mistake: there are 6 800 rush-hour trips from Gatineau to non-core Ottawa or elsewhere.

That sounds more like it.

[Aylmer]

Yes, but it's still only 0.22% of trips, to put it in context. My points still stand.

[DarkArconio]

Might it not make more sense to move this debate to a new thread, as we are neither really discussing a bridge, nor for that matter an interprovincial crossing, even if the debate does focus on interprovincial traffic?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Yes, but it's still only 0.22% of trips, to put it in context. My points still stand.

The total car trips in this study is 3 Million which obviously counts a lot of short multiple destination trips within a neighbourhood. A better comparison might be what percentage of Gatineau orgin trips go outside of Ottawa.

I did a quick summary of trips from Gatineau and even in using these numbers you are correct, and your point stands that few crossings are true through trips (>4% to "external"). That said it is not clear though that these numbers include trips to Montreal Toronto etc.

Interestingly almost as many Gatineau auto trips go to Bayshore and Kanata as downtown. Also as many or more go to the west over Eastern Ottawa.


Gatineau to Ottawa trips (excludes origin rural Gatineau)
Ottawa Centre 8,800
Ottawa Inner Area 9,400
Ottawa East 5,500
Beacon Hill 3,400
Alta Vista 7,300
Hunt Club 2,200
Merrivale 5,400
Ottawa West 5,000
Bayshore 3,500
Orléans 4,400
Kanata/Stittsville 2,500
External 2,400


Personally, I think this discussion is very relevant to the crossing discussion.

[Aylmer]

The numbers you're using are the 24h ones which, though relevant, are not entirely appropriate to the discussion of relieving traffic on downtown streets since non-peak congestion isn't much of a problem.

Here are the rush-hour AM numbers:

East: 1700
Beacon Hill: 1300
Alta Vista: 2800
Orleans: 600
Kanata: 300*
The rest are at 0 or just about.

*I removed the numbers from Aylmer and Le Plateau from this one since going all the way to the McDC Bridge would be a significant detour compared to simply crossing at Champlain, tunnel or not.


Putting these numbers together give us a better image of the situation: cross-downtown traffic almost only occurs when downtown roads are not congested (i.e: off-peak) and even then in relatively small numbers.
The argument that pressure would be relieved by removing this traffic from downtown streets is then only technically true in the short term (because of induced demand taking that space back) but not practically significant enough to warrant the investment or the significant drawbacks of induced demand.

[Cre47]

And yet another fatality pedestrian/truck in the truck corridor

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/02/21/woman-struck-by-vehicle-killed-on-downtown-street

[waterloowarrior]

Truck Study RFP is out https://sites.google.com/site/sustainabl...news/downtowntrucktunnelstudyrfpreleased

[Acajack]

The federal government has hired a firm to update its 2012 studies on new interprovincial bridge locations and options!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The federal government has hired a firm to update its 2012 studies on new interprovincial bridge locations and options!

Sweet!! Just another 5 years and $50 million in tax payer dollars before the next scrapped bridge plan!!!

[danishh]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The federal government has hired a firm to update its 2012 studies on new interprovincial bridge locations and options!

where'd you find this? I dont see anything on buyandsell.gc.ca. Just curious.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by danishh

where'd you find this? I dont see anything on buyandsell.gc.ca. Just curious.

Heard it on the radio. WSP got the contract. Will try to check Le Droit.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Heard it on the radio. WSP got the contract. Will try to check Le Droit.

They was an article in Le Droit on August 15 about it. Company was hired in July to update the last report, but the name of the company or price of the study are not mentioned.

Also kind of seems like all of this; the announcement in the March budget and this new study, might just be empty gestures to shut Mackinnon up and help in the election.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/gatin...ckinnon-5d8174ae43357b5ee38e4bc50622cc26

[Spoonsy]

There's a release on the PSPC website about it - posted Aug 28 2019:
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/comm/vedette-features/ponts-crossings-eng.html

Budget 2019 updates
Budget 2019 announced $80.4 million over 10 years to rehabilitate and maintain the Chaudière Crossing, the Alexandra Bridge and the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge. Over the longer term, Budget 2019 also made a commitment to replace the Alexandra Bridge as it is now more than 100 years old and nearing the end of its lifecycle.

Interprovincial crossings in the NCR are the responsibility of the Government of Canada. As the NCR population continues to grow, there is an acute need to increase bridge capacity in the region. That’s why Budget 2019 made the commitment to refresh existing studies for an additional NCR crossing. The NCC has awarded a contract to WSP Canada Group Limited to carry out this work.

Budget 2019 also committed to developing a long-term, integrated interprovincial crossing plan, led by the NCC with both provincial governments and the cities of Gatineau and Ottawa. Over the long-term, this plan will take into account all means of transportation, including Light Rail, public transit, vehicles, cyclists and pedestrian requirements.

In the interim, both PSPC and the NCC will keep working together to ensure bridges remain safe for commuters. Both organizations along with their partners are also developing new and innovative ways to minimize the impact of construction on commuters. This includes appropriately coordinating bridge projects and using barges, when possible, to complete work.

Earlier this summer, the NCC accelerated the Portage cyclist barrier project, while PSPC delayed the start of the Alexandra Bridge steel replacement project, to avoid having closures on both bridges. Additionally, the Alexandra Bridge steel replacement project will be completed using barges, which minimizes the required lane closures to complete the project and allow traffic to continue without disruption.

[J.OT13]

According to Steven MacKinnon, the 2012 studies will be updated by the end of 2019.

https://www.ledroit.com/actualites/gatin...de-2019-566079d5c37d8e4563133818daae6785

[lrt's friend]

Aw, another study to do nothing.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Aw, another study to do nothing.

Hard to tell. The biggest obstacles (the late MP who lived close to the parkway and the former provincial government) are no longer there.