Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by corynv

Isn't there a park and ride at blair? Though that is the only one on stage 1.

21 spaces and they require a Gold pass. In other words, it is paid parking.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Just remember that the Confederation Line has no Park n Ride lots either. Phase 2, we finally connect to a couple in Orleans, nothing significant for the west. If we want suburban buy-in in off-peak hours, park n rides are important.

Stage 1 in Ottawa is a 12.5 kilometer line that doesn't leave what is considered the inner-city. Once you get to Blair, might as well drive on to downtown. The ION is 19 kilometers in a city half our size. It starts at the northern edge of the city, so a park-and-ride (PaR) should have been a no-brainer.

As for Stage 2, it will be well served by PaR in Orleans (as you mentioned) and Riverside South, not so much for the west end however. When the Line was extended to Moodie and the new yard location was selected even further out, it wouldn't have been to much of a stretch to extend all the way to Eagleson (2.5 km). They could have built a much simpler station at Moodie to serve DND and Abbott, requiring much less reconfiguration and subsequently re-invest the money in Eagleson for a proper bus-rail transfer and PaR. They could have eliminated the Trim extension (avoiding the mess of a re-configuration proposed by East-West Connectors) to fund the Eagleson leg if extra funds were required. A terminus at Place d'Orleans would have sufficed considering how poorly the area around Trim will be served by Stage 2 (lack of pedestrian bridge to the college and high-density north end of the highway).

In retrospect, the the Trillium extension as proposed isn't the only farce. The extension to Trim instead of Eagleson was also a pretty bad call.

[lrt's friend]

In retrospect, the the Trillium extension as proposed isn't the only farce. The extension to Trim instead of Eagleson was also a pretty bad call.

Guess who had more political pull at the time?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Missassauga decided to build BRT. We'll see in 20 years how well that works out for them.

It'll work out well. They have density en route. They have several major connections. And a whole lot of transit traffic on the corridor. It's not being overbuilt either, so good value.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In retrospect, the the Trillium extension as proposed isn't the only farce. The extension to Trim instead of Eagleson was also a pretty bad call.

Stage 2 to Eagleson was a no-brainer. There's a P&R at Baseline, so they could keep that and have a single LRT P&R.

Of course, LRT seems to be more about serving condo developers than existing riders

[Dengler Avenue]

* deleted *

[Truenorth00]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't the extension to a Trim funded mostly by the feds and Queen's Park?

As for going to Eagleson, does the cost even come close to the Trim extension?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Gat-Train

Of course, LRT seems to be more about serving condo developers than existing riders

The 10 000 riders going through every rush hour, on buses, on Albert and Slater might have something to say about that that. Replacing the existing Transitway with LRT is all about serving existing users.

You want to see a plan designed to benefit suburban developers? Look up the Chiarelli plan.

[Gat-Train]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The 10 000 riders going through every rush hour, on buses, on Albert and Slater might have something to say about that that. Replacing the existing Transitway with LRT is all about serving existing users.

You want to see a plan designed to benefit suburban developers? Look up the Chiarelli plan.

And yet they seem to think scrapping inner-city park&rides will be good for existing riders.

I completely support the Confederation line. It just needs to be built right.

[Prometheus188]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

When the Line was extended to Moodie and the new yard location was selected even further out, it wouldn't have been to much of a stretch to extend all the way to Eagleson (2.5 km).

They could have eliminated the Trim extension (avoiding the mess of a re-configuration proposed by East-West Connectors) to fund the Eagleson leg if extra funds were required. A terminus at Place d'Orleans would have sufficed considering how poorly the area around Trim will be served by Stage 2 (lack of pedestrian bridge to the college and high-density north end of the highway).

Originally, the plan for stage 2 was to end the western leg at Bayshore. Then they realized they could use the existing funds and get an extra 3 km of rail to get to Moodie. And that was really pushing it. The budget was stretched to the limit. They were all out of money. And Eagleson is not 2.5 km away. It's around 5 km away from Moodie, and about 8 km away from Bayshore, which was the original terminus. There's no way they could get to Eagleson without some massive influx of new cash. The Trim extension is only about 3.5 km. Cancelling that wouldn't be enough to get to Eagleson.

Ending the line at Place d'Orleans would have been the most short sighted decision in the city's history. The station would have become useless overnight. You'd have to run shuttles from Trim to Place, 1 single stop. The ridership would instantly drop. It would cease to be a true transit way station. Trim has over 1000 parking spaces and is the 3rd largest park and ride in the city. The potential for ridership growth is very high, and LRT would definitely increase it. Not going to Trim would leave a significant portion of Orleans without effective transit.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

Originally, the plan for stage 2 was to end the western leg at Bayshore. Then they realized they could use the existing funds and get an extra 3 km of rail to get to Moodie. And that was really pushing it. The budget was stretched to the limit. They were all out of money. And Eagleson is not 2.5 km away. It's around 5 km away from Moodie, and about 8 km away from Bayshore, which was the original terminus. There's no way they could get to Eagleson without some massive influx of new cash. The Trim extension is only about 3.5 km. Cancelling that wouldn't be enough to get to Eagleson.

Ending the line at Place d'Orleans would have been the most short sighted decision in the city's history. The station would have become useless overnight. You'd have to run shuttles from Trim to Place, 1 single stop. The ridership would instantly drop. It would cease to be a true transit way station. Trim has over 1000 parking spaces and is the 3rd largest park and ride in the city. The potential for ridership growth is very high, and LRT would definitely increase it. Not going to Trim would leave a significant portion of Orleans without effective transit.

Being a former east ender I agree. Trim was really necessary. In the West, I don't think you could have gone just to Eagleson, it would seem dumb to stop just short of Terry Fox and the heart of Kanata's shopping area, and there's no way they could have squeezed that into the project.

Really the system isn't complete until Stage 3.

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Here we are-Aug 14. Is the 12 day trial completed? Any further glitches delaying it?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Prometheus188

Originally, the plan for stage 2 was to end the western leg at Bayshore. Then they realized they could use the existing funds and get an extra 3 km of rail to get to Moodie. And that was really pushing it. The budget was stretched to the limit. They were all out of money. And Eagleson is not 2.5 km away. It's around 5 km away from Moodie, and about 8 km away from Bayshore, which was the original terminus. There's no way they could get to Eagleson without some massive influx of new cash. The Trim extension is only about 3.5 km. Cancelling that wouldn't be enough to get to Eagleson.

Ending the line at Place d'Orleans would have been the most short sighted decision in the city's history. The station would have become useless overnight. You'd have to run shuttles from Trim to Place, 1 single stop. The ridership would instantly drop. It would cease to be a true transit way station. Trim has over 1000 parking spaces and is the 3rd largest park and ride in the city. The potential for ridership growth is very high, and LRT would definitely increase it. Not going to Trim would leave a significant portion of Orleans without effective transit.

I calculated the distance from Moodie Yards, not the station. So about 2.5 kilometers.

Not sure everyone would agree that ending the line at Place d'Orléans would be the most shortsighted decision in the City's history... Removing the streetcars, Stage 2 Trillium, closing down Union Station, the Château Laurier addition all rank pretty high. The lack of a PaR in the west as part of Stage 2 as well.

I agree that extending the line to Trim is greatly beneficial however, the proposed re-alignment of Trim Road, the lack of pedestrian bridge to the north side of the 174 and the decision not to expand the existing PaR greatly reduces its effectiveness. I still believe trading Trim Station in favour of Eagleson would be worth while. We can agree to disagree.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

Here we are-Aug 14. Is the 12 day trial completed? Any further glitches delaying it?

Apparently, there was a train stalled at Tunney's for 10 hours yesterday. If that's not a reset, I don't know what is. Unless of course it was part of the testing, but of course we will never know.

https://twitter.com/Smardie96/status/1161388828172652544

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I still believe trading Trim Station in favour of Eagleson would be worth while.

Any evidence they are equal in cost and that not building Trim would have paid for the 2.5km to Eagleson? I don't see it right now.

And aside from the cost, you're ignoring where the funds came from. I'm fairly sure when the feds and Queen's Park said they'd pay for Trim, they intended the funds to be used for Trim.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Any evidence they are equal in cost and that not building Trim would have paid for the 2.5km to Eagleson? I don't see it right now.

And aside from the cost, you're ignoring where the funds came from. I'm fairly sure when the feds and Queen's Park said they'd pay for Trim, they intended the funds to be used for Trim.

The City probably requested funds specifically for Trim and the Airport. They could just as easily asked for Eagleson and the Airport. Of course, this was before the City decided to extend to Moodie, so the timing doesn't quire work out. Of course, if we're re-inventing history anyway, maybe they could have figured out Moodie beforehand.

I don't have any evidence, numbers wise, that Eagleson would have cost the same as Trim however;

• Trim extension is about 1 kilometer longer than Eagleson (from Moodie Yard);
• Both use an existing corridor;
• Eagleson would require less highway reconfiguration (Eagleson ramp only, not an entire highway to shift in order to fit rails in the median);
• Moodie bus loop could be scaled back significantly;
• Bus loop at Trim or Eagleson would be just about the same size and cost;
• Both require pedestrian bridge(s).

The only wildcard is ownership of the land between the 417 and Corkstown Road; City, NCC or Province? While the City owns the 174.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Apparently, there was a train stalled at Tunney's for 10 hours yesterday. If that's not a reset, I don't know what is. Unless of course it was part of the testing, but of course we will never know.

https://twitter.com/Smardie96/status/1161388828172652544

I have a strong feeling that the mayor has deemed the 16th will happen, no matter what. We would know by now if they were going to delay handover

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The City probably requested funds specifically for Trim and the Airport. They could just as easily asked for Eagleson and the Airport. Of course, this was before the City decided to extend to Moodie, so the timing doesn't quire work out. Of course, if we're re-inventing history anyway, maybe they could have figured out Moodie beforehand.

I don't have any evidence, numbers wise, that Eagleson would have cost the same as Trim however;

• Trim extension is about 1 kilometer longer than Eagleson (from Moodie Yard);
• Both use an existing corridor;
• Eagleson would require less highway reconfiguration (Eagleson ramp only, not an entire highway to shift in order to fit rails in the median);
• Moodie bus loop could be scaled back significantly;
• Bus loop at Trim or Eagleson would be just about the same size and cost;
• Both require pedestrian bridge(s).

The only wildcard is ownership of the land between the 417 and Corkstown Road; City, NCC or Province? While the City owns the 174.

The Kanata EA showed Eagleson Station on the west side of March Road. That means grade separating 2 ramps + March Road. Way more expensive than Trim.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I have a strong feeling that the mayor has deemed the 16th will happen, no matter what. We would know by now if they were going to delay handover

You think they might take it, even if the final testing fails, with the hope of "ironing out" the last few kinks during OC Transpo's final testing? It would be pretty embarrassing for RTG and the City if yet another deadline is blown.

For what it's worth, I did a couple short stints of train spotting the last two days. On Monday, I spent 10 minutes watching the LeBreton Flats stretch from the Delta's top floor. Seemed to be working like clock work, with trains crossing between Bayview and Pimisi (as TheMatth69 pointed-out earlier this month) every time. Yesterday, I sat next to a subway grate at Place de Ville for 10 minutes and heard trains coning in and out of the station very consistently. It's very loud, in a cool way. Almost sounds like the train is going by right next to you, not 6 floors underground.

[AR-OTT]

Originally Posted by dougvdh

Scott may not see as much as people think. The zoning between Parkdale and Bayview doesn't allow any significant increase in density due to a max height defined by an angular plane taken off the south property line of Scott Street facing lots. Most lots are very shallow, so heights (with a couple exceptions) are very limited.

Maybe the city will be motivated to relax this zoning to increase TOD. The goal being having something to point to in the future to justify later stages of transit development.